Does Synthetic oil have paraffin
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Yes, Highly paraffinic. More so than grp. II. Nothing wrong with that either that is what increases the VI then other VII's are added to get it even higher.
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Originally Posted By: chubbs1
Yes, Highly paraffinic. More so than grp. II. Nothing wrong with that either.
Good answer!
Yes, Highly paraffinic. More so than grp. II. Nothing wrong with that either.
Good answer!
Paraffin is a very misused term. Methane is a type of paraffin....
Originally Posted By: chevrofreak
Paraffin is a very misused term.
Agreed. In Chemistry, paraffinic = alkane... that is, a linear or branched (but not cyclic) hydrocarbon in which all the carbon molecules are completely 'saturated' with hydrogen atoms (no double or triple carbon-carbon bonds). Group III / III+ oils are highly paraffinic, meaning they contain very few unsaturations.
Group IV oils, conversely, are typically based upon n-alkenes, meaning they are linear hydrocarbons in which the first carbon atom and the second carbon atom in the chain contain a double bond (unsaturation), and the rest of the carbon atoms in the chain are 'saturated'.
Group III/III+ and Group IV oils each have their benefits as a base oil for lubrication, but both are vastly superior then the Grp. I and II oils of the past, which contained larger amounts of naphthenic and aromatic compounds.
Hint: don't confuse 'paraffinic' with 'paraffin wax'. paraffin wax is a type of paraffinic compound, but not all paraffinic compounds are waxy solids.
In the 'old days', Pennzoil got a bad rap because apparently pennsylvania crude had a higher content of paraffin wax than is desirable in a motor oil. This apparently caused sludge. Pennzoil is no longer made from pennsylvania crude - and even if it was, the refining process is so much better these days that it would eliminate all the wax from the base oil anyway.
Paraffin is a very misused term.
Agreed. In Chemistry, paraffinic = alkane... that is, a linear or branched (but not cyclic) hydrocarbon in which all the carbon molecules are completely 'saturated' with hydrogen atoms (no double or triple carbon-carbon bonds). Group III / III+ oils are highly paraffinic, meaning they contain very few unsaturations.
Group IV oils, conversely, are typically based upon n-alkenes, meaning they are linear hydrocarbons in which the first carbon atom and the second carbon atom in the chain contain a double bond (unsaturation), and the rest of the carbon atoms in the chain are 'saturated'.
Group III/III+ and Group IV oils each have their benefits as a base oil for lubrication, but both are vastly superior then the Grp. I and II oils of the past, which contained larger amounts of naphthenic and aromatic compounds.
Hint: don't confuse 'paraffinic' with 'paraffin wax'. paraffin wax is a type of paraffinic compound, but not all paraffinic compounds are waxy solids.
In the 'old days', Pennzoil got a bad rap because apparently pennsylvania crude had a higher content of paraffin wax than is desirable in a motor oil. This apparently caused sludge. Pennzoil is no longer made from pennsylvania crude - and even if it was, the refining process is so much better these days that it would eliminate all the wax from the base oil anyway.
Yancey
Several points...as made clear above, paraffinic crude oil makes good lube oil using old refining methods. The alternate, asphaltic (napthenic) crude oil made poor lube oil. I'm not sure Pennz ever caused more sludge than any other brand of oil, but it sure had that reputation.
Everything is different these days. Not exactly everything, but much. First, "synthetic" is not a technical oil term. It is a marketing term. Any motor oil made from very highly refined petroleum, called Group III base oil, can be sold as full synthetic. The best is very good indeed, and the worst is OK but not worth its cost. And there is polyalphaolefin PAO Group IV base oil--excellent and pricey, and not much better than the very good Group III oils. And Group V is any base oil not already mentioned. All are legally marketed as synthetic, and they're chemically different.
Some of the very best Group III base oil is made from the wax that is removed from crude oil in the solvent refining process. Other excellent Group III base oil is converted from natural gas. It is about the chemistry and the results inside the engine, not about wax to seal canning jars.
Which brands of "synthetic" oils are made from Group III petroleum base? Figure just about every one is all or part G-III unless they state otherwise on the label. Most oil makers don't tell us so they can save money, and the products are still usually excellent.
Several points...as made clear above, paraffinic crude oil makes good lube oil using old refining methods. The alternate, asphaltic (napthenic) crude oil made poor lube oil. I'm not sure Pennz ever caused more sludge than any other brand of oil, but it sure had that reputation.
Everything is different these days. Not exactly everything, but much. First, "synthetic" is not a technical oil term. It is a marketing term. Any motor oil made from very highly refined petroleum, called Group III base oil, can be sold as full synthetic. The best is very good indeed, and the worst is OK but not worth its cost. And there is polyalphaolefin PAO Group IV base oil--excellent and pricey, and not much better than the very good Group III oils. And Group V is any base oil not already mentioned. All are legally marketed as synthetic, and they're chemically different.
Some of the very best Group III base oil is made from the wax that is removed from crude oil in the solvent refining process. Other excellent Group III base oil is converted from natural gas. It is about the chemistry and the results inside the engine, not about wax to seal canning jars.
Which brands of "synthetic" oils are made from Group III petroleum base? Figure just about every one is all or part G-III unless they state otherwise on the label. Most oil makers don't tell us so they can save money, and the products are still usually excellent.
Originally Posted By: danthaman1980
Group IV oils, conversely, are typically based upon n-alkenes, meaning they are linear hydrocarbons in which the first carbon atom and the second carbon atom in the chain contain a double bond (unsaturation), and the rest of the carbon atoms in the chain are 'saturated'.
True, but just to clarify, the 1-decene oligomers are hydrogenated in the final steps, and the finished PAO has no unsaturation.
Tom NJ
Group IV oils, conversely, are typically based upon n-alkenes, meaning they are linear hydrocarbons in which the first carbon atom and the second carbon atom in the chain contain a double bond (unsaturation), and the rest of the carbon atoms in the chain are 'saturated'.
True, but just to clarify, the 1-decene oligomers are hydrogenated in the final steps, and the finished PAO has no unsaturation.
Tom NJ
Guys thanks for the great info, I am sorry for asking these dumb qustions. So pennzoil is not pennsylvania crude? What oil is Group IV base oil? So Group V oil is the best synthetic oil you can buy? What brand oil uses most Group V base stock?
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Originally Posted By: YANCEY
So pennzoil is not pennsylvania crude? What oil is Group IV base oil? So Group V oil is the best synthetic oil you can buy? What brand oil uses most Group V base stock?
As I recall, SOPUS uses what they have available, and the Pennsylvania crude only thing is long gone. Group IV is PAO. Group V isnt' the "best" since that's a very hard term to define. Group V is basically whatever isn't Group I, II, III, or IV, and is often esters. To the best of my knowledge, Red Line is about the most well known Group V based oil, with an ester base. I would assume something like G Oil would also be classified as a Group V, since it wouldn't fit elsewhere.
So pennzoil is not pennsylvania crude? What oil is Group IV base oil? So Group V oil is the best synthetic oil you can buy? What brand oil uses most Group V base stock?
As I recall, SOPUS uses what they have available, and the Pennsylvania crude only thing is long gone. Group IV is PAO. Group V isnt' the "best" since that's a very hard term to define. Group V is basically whatever isn't Group I, II, III, or IV, and is often esters. To the best of my knowledge, Red Line is about the most well known Group V based oil, with an ester base. I would assume something like G Oil would also be classified as a Group V, since it wouldn't fit elsewhere.
Originally Posted By: Tom NJ
...True, but just to clarify, the 1-decene oligomers are hydrogenated in the final steps, and the finished PAO has no unsaturation.
Tom NJ
Unsaturated fats are bad for engines too? Imagine that!
...True, but just to clarify, the 1-decene oligomers are hydrogenated in the final steps, and the finished PAO has no unsaturation.
Tom NJ
Unsaturated fats are bad for engines too? Imagine that!
Originally Posted By: Garak
Originally Posted By: YANCEY
So pennzoil is not pennsylvania crude? What oil is Group IV base oil? So Group V oil is the best synthetic oil you can buy? What brand oil uses most Group V base stock?
As I recall, SOPUS uses what they have available, and the Pennsylvania crude only thing is long gone. Group IV is PAO. Group V isnt' the "best" since that's a very hard term to define. Group V is basically whatever isn't Group I, II, III, or IV, and is often esters. To the best of my knowledge, Red Line is about the most well known Group V based oil, with an ester base. I would assume something like G Oil would also be classified as a Group V, since it wouldn't fit elsewhere.
Some would say that Motul 300V beats out Red Line as far as group 5/ester basestock content goes (especially Motul themselves
), BUT we will NEVER know for sure since neither company will EVER give their exact percentages of grp. 5/esters in their respective basestocks, and no one has the coin to do a spectral analysis on both to find out!
Originally Posted By: YANCEY
So pennzoil is not pennsylvania crude? What oil is Group IV base oil? So Group V oil is the best synthetic oil you can buy? What brand oil uses most Group V base stock?
As I recall, SOPUS uses what they have available, and the Pennsylvania crude only thing is long gone. Group IV is PAO. Group V isnt' the "best" since that's a very hard term to define. Group V is basically whatever isn't Group I, II, III, or IV, and is often esters. To the best of my knowledge, Red Line is about the most well known Group V based oil, with an ester base. I would assume something like G Oil would also be classified as a Group V, since it wouldn't fit elsewhere.
Some would say that Motul 300V beats out Red Line as far as group 5/ester basestock content goes (especially Motul themselves
Thanks, dailydriver. I had forgotten about Motul. Red Line was just the first example that jumped to mind.
The "Pennsylvania crude" business was more of an advertising gimmick than "synthetic" oil. Back in the 70's the green and white Quaker State cans were labeled "Pennsylvania
Grade Crude Oil". The word "grade" implied that the oil used was the same quality as the oil pumped out of the ground in Pennsylvania. Quaker (and Pennz, for that matter) had oil packaged for them all over the country. By the 70's, oil production was beginning to decline in PA, anyway.
Grade Crude Oil". The word "grade" implied that the oil used was the same quality as the oil pumped out of the ground in Pennsylvania. Quaker (and Pennz, for that matter) had oil packaged for them all over the country. By the 70's, oil production was beginning to decline in PA, anyway.
Originally Posted By: Tom NJ
Originally Posted By: danthaman1980
Group IV oils, conversely, are typically based upon n-alkenes, meaning they are linear hydrocarbons in which the first carbon atom and the second carbon atom in the chain contain a double bond (unsaturation), and the rest of the carbon atoms in the chain are 'saturated'.
True, but just to clarify, the 1-decene oligomers are hydrogenated in the final steps, and the finished PAO has no unsaturation.
Tom NJ
Interesting... I guess the chemist in me expects polyalphaolefin to mean olefin.
And that would mean that even PAO motor oils are paraffinic! What will we ever do?!?!?!
Originally Posted By: danthaman1980
Group IV oils, conversely, are typically based upon n-alkenes, meaning they are linear hydrocarbons in which the first carbon atom and the second carbon atom in the chain contain a double bond (unsaturation), and the rest of the carbon atoms in the chain are 'saturated'.
True, but just to clarify, the 1-decene oligomers are hydrogenated in the final steps, and the finished PAO has no unsaturation.
Tom NJ
Interesting... I guess the chemist in me expects polyalphaolefin to mean olefin.
And that would mean that even PAO motor oils are paraffinic! What will we ever do?!?!?!
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Originally Posted By: danthaman1980
And that would mean that even PAO motor oils are paraffinic! What will we ever do?!?!?!
Correct, although isoparaffinic would be more correct.
Tom NJ
And that would mean that even PAO motor oils are paraffinic! What will we ever do?!?!?!
Tom NJ
Redline is one of the few Group 5 oils and is readily available.
It's the only kind my mom lets me use.
It's the only kind my mom lets me use.
Kind of an old thread, but here's my 2 cents.
I work in an oil refinery and we can make whatever products we want from whatever crude we get. A good paraffinic base oil can be made from any crude, it's just a matter of more processing.
As far as waxes go, not all paraffins are waxes, but all waxes are paraffins. It's a cut of the whole paraffin range. We actually made paraffinic solvents used by the tire industry to tackify rubber for tires. There was no wax in that. And today "Coleman fuel" (white gasoline) for camp stoves and lanterns is made from raffinate, the same paraffin used to make the solvents mentioned before.
I work in an oil refinery and we can make whatever products we want from whatever crude we get. A good paraffinic base oil can be made from any crude, it's just a matter of more processing.
As far as waxes go, not all paraffins are waxes, but all waxes are paraffins. It's a cut of the whole paraffin range. We actually made paraffinic solvents used by the tire industry to tackify rubber for tires. There was no wax in that. And today "Coleman fuel" (white gasoline) for camp stoves and lanterns is made from raffinate, the same paraffin used to make the solvents mentioned before.
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