Does Redline kill trannies?

[MolaKule]

It has not been proven that ANY transmission is damaged by full synthetic lubricants. Use the Redline, RP, Amsoil, etc, without fear.

Scare tactics and inuendos are often used by those whose understanding of the chemistry of full synthetic fluids are minimal, biased, or both.

 

[Mickey_M]

quote:

---

Originally posted by MolaKule:
It has not been proven that ANY transmission is damaged by full synthetic lubricants.

---

"Full synthetic" can mean almost anything. There are numerous families of full synthetics, and within each family numerous combinations and permutations. Each has its inherent advantages and disadvantages, some are completely inappropriate to certain applications.

The minimum proof, at least at the consumer level, required is that the lubricant under consideration meet whatever is the industry or manufacturer's certification.

 

[Idrinkmotoroil]

I've got a NVG 5 speed transmission in my 04 Dodge that called for ATF+4. The stock fluid didnt seem to shift properly and I was weary of a thin ATF fluid being used in a hard driven turbocharged setup. I chatted with Dave at Redline many times trying to figure out what fluid might help with my setup. Before choosing his MTL product I questioned him about the internet rumours that link D4ATF to failed Tremec carbon fibre syncho'd trannies. I wanted to hear their side of the story before committing to their products. Dave categorically stated that while he has heard of those stories from the internet, not one person had ever contacted them about their fluids causing such transmission failures. Trusting Dave's word, I find it strange that people would put up with transmission failures that cost several thousands of dollars and not contact Redline to protest or rectify the matter. If someone was so sure that a fluid caused a transmission failure you would think they would contact Redline and attempt to resolve the matter. That leads me to believe the stories are pretty much speculative or even bogus, and more than likely a result of abuse or neglect. I do not believe that Redline fluids can lead to transmission failures soley on their own. You take a superior base fluid such as Redline's, add anti-wear additives and friction modifiers and you come out with a fluid that is as good or better than anything on the market, it's hard to see how the fluid could be worse.

 

[VNT]

I run Amsoil ATF in the 5 speed Getrag in my 03 PT GT. Shifts fine!

In my A555 Getrag in my 86 Turbo Z I run Amsoil 0w-30. In the A555 Getrag going in my 89 Shadow turbo, I will also run the 0W-30. DC Factory filled all trannies from that
time frame with ATF to enhance shifting but later receommended refilling with std motor oil for enhanced protection. However they never recommended gear oils in these.

I will use the ATF in the PT to protect my warranty. The PT has a drain plug so I can drain it yearly.

VNT

 

[JohnBrowning]

The Toyota truck trany's (manuals) will handle just about any GL4 or GL5 fluid. If you are useing synthetics I prefer MTL/MT90 50/50 mix! My second choice is RP MaxGear. If you change that gear lube per Toyota's OCI a dino gear lube will do just fine! The main advantage to synthics is better cold temp operations and extended drain intervals. In some cases lower wear is also a benifit.

Dino gear lubes have always served me fine in most aplications. If you go offraod a lot it is uch cheaper to drop dino gear lube after a deep water crossing then expensive synthetics!

You might want to consider some of the following unless cold temp. operations are the main concern.
Delo,Castrol,Havoline, Motorcraft,Mobil,Cenpeco and of course Schaffers dino gear lubes.

I use synthetic gear lubes mainly for extened drains and for cold tempture operations. When the temp is -22F with out any windchill shifting gears can be tricky with dino oil! I am no fan of Mobil 1 synthetic gearlube in transmissions. I find that it works fine in diff.'s but produces notchy shifts in most transmissions!

 

[Anthony]

Someone mentioned on a vw board that you need friction for the synchros to work properly which is true but they also said that the compromise with mt90 is the gear and bearing protection is compromised because of the coeffcient of friction or somthing like that.
I just put this fluid in my 04 frontier.
Has anyone seen any trannys torn apart that ran redline? Im just a little worried.

 

[MolaKule]

quote:

---

Someone mentioned on a vw board that you need friction for the synchros to work properly which is true but they also said that the compromise with mt90 is the gear and bearing protection is compromised because of the coeffcient of friction or somthing like that.

---

Whomever that person on the vw board might be doesn't understand synchro dynamic friction requirements verses EP and AW protection. You might have that person come over to BITOG and read our white papers and threads on synchro engagement and what is required. Have them search within this topic for informative questions and answers.

Special friction modifier additives are required for sychro engagement and these are tested against the EP/AW additive to ensure that proper protection is present verses the requirement that smooth synchro engagement be maintained.


BTW, Most Nissan MT's require a 75W85 which is thinner than that of MT90.

You consider our MTL-P which is speced for 75W85 fluids.

 

[JohnBrowning]

Worked great in my Dodge! Redline is good stuff. If a transmission goes south it is not becasue of Redline!While their are many great oils for a crankcase the list of great gear lubes and ATF's is very short. Redline and Specialty Products are the best in my book and everything else is just plain jane also ran's in my book.

 

[moribundman]

Probably a large percentge of the people who put Red Line in also drive the living daylights out of their cars, which might explain more transmission problems (if there really are more). MT-90 works just dandy in my Audi transmission and torsen center differential, while RL 75W-90 keeps the rear differential happy. And I don't drive like gramps...

 

[simple_gifts]

http://www.carreview.com/cat/parts/misc-parts/red-line/PRD_8763_1599crx.aspx

Glowing reviews like this one probably are impossible to refute, although the comment

"For my car, it was very difficult to figure out exactly which Redline product was applicable. Perhaps I selected the wrong one." tends to call in question the owners judgement.

I nonetheless gleefully replaced the g-box oil in my echo with a 50/50 MTL/MT-90 and am pretty happy. Plenty-o-recommendations here @ BITOG were the convincing factor, not "web derived folklore"

 

[Anthony]

Molukale, I know it was speced for 75w85 but I know the same transmission on the 01s called for 75w90 gl4 in the manual but I believe there was a tsb for even the 01s to use the 75w85 for smoother shifting but im not to concerned with extremely smooth shifting as long as it gets top protection and since I tow a good bit I decided to use straight Mt90.
I may do the 50/50 mix of redline mtl and mt90 in the winter. I may eventually go with the mtl/p but I can get the redline around the corner from home which is why I chose it this time.
This is a new transmission with about 1000 miles on it and redlines site said diffs and transaxles break in fine with synthetics so im think im going to run this mix for about 5k then drain and refill.
The orginal oil had just 600 miles on it an it was a very dark grey but there wasent alot of metal shavings on the magnet but with the new unit getting very hot, I feel much better with a synthetic in it.

 

[MolaKule]

Sounds like you can use either our MTL-P in 75W85 or our MTL-R in 75W90. Both are rated GL4/GL5 for protection and have the best sychro friction modifiers in the industry.

 

[Anthony]

So basically your MTL lubes offer gl5 protection but without the effects a normal gl5 would have on yellow metals?
Is MTL-R sutable in rear diffs since it has the gl5 spec?

 

[Vspec]

Off-Topic - Molakule, Im getting ready to order another gallon of MTL-p. Can you tell me more about it?

Also how long should it last in a transmission that sees hard-to-average driving? Im thinking a drain interval of 10k miles? 7.5-10,000 miles?

 

[robnitro]

Molakule said that it can handle acid buildup for 50,000 miles as it has a strong TBN.

But, he recommended 30,000 miles without analysis in my heavy torque VW diesel hehe. I think that sounds reasonable, not the stupid VW OEM "lifetime fluid" claim. Though the stock fluid did look pretty good at 80k!

I plan to try MTL-R out if this gm/pennzoil syncromesh doesn't continue to shift as well as it is now (used to be notchy and grind sometimes, now no notchyness or grinding at all!).

 

[MolaKule]

quote:

---

So basically your MTL lubes offer gl5 protection but without the effects a normal gl5 would have on yellow metals?
Is MTL-R sutable in rear diffs since it has the gl5 spec?

---

Right. MTL-R is speced only for MT's and tr

quote:

---

---

ansaxles.

Our HDS-5 series of gear lubes are speced for differentials.

We have tested the MTL-R in 5-ton and larger farm trucks with manual trannies to 50,000 miles and it showed low wear metals and very little shearing. And these trucks are not babied nor driven by experienced drivers.

 

[Jim 5]

I asked this same question (original thread question) on a bmw board. I got 6 responses on the Redline D4 ATF with use ranging from 1k to 45k miles intervals (many around 30k miles) with no problems.

Here's the link if anyone's interested.

http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?p=3362132&posted=1#post3362132

If there had been transmission failures because of Redline, I suspect there would have been a response. However, this board is for 3 series Model years '99 - 05.

I've scanned the 3 series board for the e36 models ('92 - 98MY) and haven't seen any reports of trans failures because of redline. It's a very popular manual trans lube for BMW owners (D4 ATF and MT90).

If anyone has a source for the ESSO BMW LT fluid, I'd love to know about it!

 

[Winston]

quote:

---

MTL-P in 75W85 or our MTL-R in 75W90

---

Can you really detect a difference between these two weights in a tranny?

 

[Thatwouldbegreat]

I've only had great results with Redline gear and transmission lubes...and I'll keep using them.

I'll switch to Molakule's products when my Redline stash runs out.

I didn't have time to read the entire thread... but this seems like urban legend atack on Redline.

My first thought its that the people who buy Redline are also the most likely to have modified the engine, drive like they just finished watching The Fast and the Furious, or tried to fix a failing transmission with Redline.

What sort of real proof is there to look at?

 

[Big Jim]

There is a huge thread over at the Contour Enthusiast Group boards about Red Line MTL failure in the Ford MTX-75 manual trans. There are over 650 posts, and it continues to grow nearly daily.

Basically someone posted that they had the cross shaft in the final drive (differential) wear out because of sludge build up that plugged the grooves that channel the oil to them. Someone posted that he had the same failure using Red Line MTL. Another member agreed to allow his trans case to be opened for inspection. He had only used Red Line MTL for 14,000 miles since having a high quality rebuild. It also had a high degree of sludge.

No one thought to have the oil analyized on the failed transmissions, or the one that was opened for inspection, but a Virgin Oil Analysis was done on both Red Line MTL and the current Ford full synthetic that is now specified for that trans (originally, for 5 years of production, Mercon was specified). When the synthetic manual trans fluid became spec, it was recommed for top off as well as refill on the older transmissions as well.

The VOA for Red Line MTL showed a lot of what may have been some sort of contamination. It was reported that the opinion of someone at Blackstone that the Red Line MTL seemed to be more of a "gear oil" than a manual trans oil.

Red Lines response was basically "it should have worked".

Other members have reported that they have had no trouble with Red Line MTL and intend to contiue using it.

So, no, don't expect an oil company to pay for repairs when using their product.

www.contour.org

http://www.contour.org/ubbthreads/s...044108&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=7&fpart=1