Originally Posted By: ThirdeYe
This was one of the sludge prone engines, wasn't it?
Yes it is!
This was one of the sludge prone engines, wasn't it?
Yes it is!
Does Fram really cause engine failure?
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Originally Posted By: UberxG
oil pressure to high?
Bad engine block?
no
oil pressure to high?
Bad engine block?
no
I think some lawyer would have milked the Fram cash cow by now if it existed. Does anyone know if Fram has ever recalled any filters, even if it was voluntary? How about any brand of filters and recalls? Any reasons with these known? Perhaps similar priced Fram vs. others, Fram may have higher manufacturing costs, therefore less money on materials/engineering?. Maybe that's why they seem less robust at the same cost and then less of a bargin.
Quote:
Does anyone know if Fram has ever recalled any filters, even if it was voluntary?
Yes. Fram recalled several of the filters for the Cummings engines, which Cummings to this day maintains caused engine failure in thousands of their engines. Some of the silicone ADBV was (allegedly) coming apart, finding its way into the engine internals, and causing massive engine failure. Fram denied any wrongdoing, but voluntarily withdrew the filters from market and replaced the problematic bits. Cummings, so far as I know, still does not approve of the use of Fram filters for their engines.
Does anyone know if Fram has ever recalled any filters, even if it was voluntary?
Yes. Fram recalled several of the filters for the Cummings engines, which Cummings to this day maintains caused engine failure in thousands of their engines. Some of the silicone ADBV was (allegedly) coming apart, finding its way into the engine internals, and causing massive engine failure. Fram denied any wrongdoing, but voluntarily withdrew the filters from market and replaced the problematic bits. Cummings, so far as I know, still does not approve of the use of Fram filters for their engines.
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Originally Posted By: kingrob
Quote:
Does anyone know if Fram has ever recalled any filters, even if it was voluntary?
Yes. Fram recalled several of the filters for the Cummings engines, which Cummings to this day maintains caused engine failure in thousands of their engines. Some of the silicone ADBV was (allegedly) coming apart, finding its way into the engine internals, and causing massive engine failure. Fram denied any wrongdoing, but voluntarily withdrew the filters from market and replaced the problematic bits. Cummings, so far as I know, still does not approve of the use of Fram filters for their engines.
And why would they? With products like their own Fleetguard filters, Donaldson and Baldwin, it would be a pretty stupid move to use a FRAM.
Quote:
Does anyone know if Fram has ever recalled any filters, even if it was voluntary?
Yes. Fram recalled several of the filters for the Cummings engines, which Cummings to this day maintains caused engine failure in thousands of their engines. Some of the silicone ADBV was (allegedly) coming apart, finding its way into the engine internals, and causing massive engine failure. Fram denied any wrongdoing, but voluntarily withdrew the filters from market and replaced the problematic bits. Cummings, so far as I know, still does not approve of the use of Fram filters for their engines.
And why would they? With products like their own Fleetguard filters, Donaldson and Baldwin, it would be a pretty stupid move to use a FRAM.
Originally Posted By: SilverC6
Fram filters are okay.
They don't cause your engine to blow up as soon as you install them.
Although everyone seems to know someone that had an engine failure directly attributable to the use of a Fram filter.
That's the urban legend, at least.
Truth is that Fram filters are just not as robust as a Purolator or an AC Delco (US made) in the same price range.
That's why I quit using them.
Just pick one up at the auto parts store and look at the interior constuction compared to a Purolator.
You'll see superior workmanship and superior components in the Purolator.
But is the Fram sufficient to get you to the next 3000 mile change?
Yes it is.
Then I wonder why Honda and Subaru use Fram as OEM/dealer replacement.
Fram filters are okay.
They don't cause your engine to blow up as soon as you install them.
Although everyone seems to know someone that had an engine failure directly attributable to the use of a Fram filter.
That's the urban legend, at least.
Truth is that Fram filters are just not as robust as a Purolator or an AC Delco (US made) in the same price range.
That's why I quit using them.
Just pick one up at the auto parts store and look at the interior constuction compared to a Purolator.
You'll see superior workmanship and superior components in the Purolator.
But is the Fram sufficient to get you to the next 3000 mile change?
Yes it is.
Then I wonder why Honda and Subaru use Fram as OEM/dealer replacement.
Originally Posted By: nthach
Then I wonder why Honda and Subaru use Fram as OEM/dealer replacement.
Because fram was the low bidder.
Then I wonder why Honda and Subaru use Fram as OEM/dealer replacement.
Because fram was the low bidder.
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Originally Posted By: TurboLuver
Originally Posted By: nthach
Then I wonder why Honda and Subaru use Fram as OEM/dealer replacement.
Because fram was the low bidder.
Bingo.
Originally Posted By: nthach
Then I wonder why Honda and Subaru use Fram as OEM/dealer replacement.
Because fram was the low bidder.
Bingo.
Judging from the condition of the crank journal it looks more like a catastrophic RPM related (loose nut between the seat and steering wheel) rod bolt failure.
A lack of lubrication would have left some scoring on the crankshaft.
A lack of lubrication would have left some scoring on the crankshaft.
""BTW, the Fram Extended Guard are top notch filters.""
I agree.............
Glad to see we are not ALL sheep here
Steve
I agree.............
Glad to see we are not ALL sheep here
Steve
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Just about everything except the orange can is decent. They're also expensive. I think they did poorer on the bubble test in Grease's study. That is, while robust in most measures of construction, the filtering ability was mediocre at best.
I know for a fact that doing the very first Oil and Filter change on my then new 96 VW Golf 2L I used Castrol GTX 10w 30 and a Fram (basic) filter from K Mart. Knowing that I was competent at doing a good job on such small maintenance items I was of course please at how easy it was to change the oil and filter on this car. I went to start the car to check for leaks, there were none just about 30 seconds later the oil pressure warning lamp comes on with the buzzer!!!!!! Well I immediately stop the car and check my work, everything is PERFECTLY done. Oil level is at center of dip stick cross hatch, correct grade of oil, and filter is on tight without any leaks. Sadly I cave and take the car back to the dealer at just 3k miles to find out the cause of my oil pressure problem....
Turns out to be.....the Fram filter. Problem is that the pressure relief valve is not correct to VWs specs. Change out the filter to an OEM VW/Mahle and viola problem is GONE.
Dealer called VW and they specifically said to AVOID Fram filters!
I've used Purolator mostly since then and have had NO repeat of the issue.
Frams may be OK in some apps but not all. BEWARE.
Turns out to be.....the Fram filter. Problem is that the pressure relief valve is not correct to VWs specs. Change out the filter to an OEM VW/Mahle and viola problem is GONE.
Dealer called VW and they specifically said to AVOID Fram filters!
I've used Purolator mostly since then and have had NO repeat of the issue.
Frams may be OK in some apps but not all. BEWARE.
I bought a BMW 325e brand new in 1985 and ran the $2.50 Fram filters on it exclusively along with Pennzoil 10W-40 oil. I drove that BMW for 14 years and 253,000 miles, and it never touched a drop of oil during that time, nor did I ever have any engine problems with it. When I got rid of it, it looked and ran like new -- frankly I regretted selling it and buying a new car. So I have no quarrel with Fram. What do I use now? No clue....my current car is so difficult to work on, Jiffy Lube does all the oil changes. Whatever they're using, its fine, as I currently have almost 270,000 miles on a cheapie compact Ford product.
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I put almost 200k miles on my 3000GT using nothing but the orange cans of doom. I`m sure there`s absolutely nothing wrong with them. I only stopped using them because of my own paranoia. Plus the Nissan filters are HUGE and very heavy/sturdy.
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Same here with both my old 87 Honda Accord & 89 and 95 Ford Rangers. I cracked (it was -5 degress!) on the second Ranger and for the second time in my life had someone change the oil. Mobil 1 5w30 & Fram (what they had). Immediately, startup noise and low pressure. Returned to Motorcraft or Purolator PureOnes next time, problem gone again - same weather.
The post below with the BMW is interesting. Is that with a canister filter? Fram's canister filters have none of the orange can of doom problems. No drainback valve problems, or paper end caps.
In racing, Fram makes good racing filters - all metal and good ADVs, but they're expensive. Nobody in their right mind uses a street Fram filter. This is SCCA road racing, where the RPMs vary a lot, not NASCAR at a narrow RPM band. Many use Purolator and Wix street filters with no issues. Always better to use a racing filter with higher pressure tolerance, but still the Purolator and Wix filters do work.
The post below with the BMW is interesting. Is that with a canister filter? Fram's canister filters have none of the orange can of doom problems. No drainback valve problems, or paper end caps.
In racing, Fram makes good racing filters - all metal and good ADVs, but they're expensive. Nobody in their right mind uses a street Fram filter. This is SCCA road racing, where the RPMs vary a lot, not NASCAR at a narrow RPM band. Many use Purolator and Wix street filters with no issues. Always better to use a racing filter with higher pressure tolerance, but still the Purolator and Wix filters do work.
Originally Posted By: StevieC
This looks like an abused engine from the colour inside the hole but I could be wrong..
I know I can't use the Fram Oil filter spec'd for my engine because it restricts the flow too much and actually causes my oil light to flicker at the stop-lights. There was even a TSB from my manufacturer that said so.
Post that TSB for us.
I've got 330k miles on a 1986 Jetta which has seen mostly Frams. I've cut open HUNDREDS of oil filters (each and every one for over 30+ years) and except a WIX this year never seen / had any problems.
How about a 1996 Chevy truck with 250k using Frams.
1982 Toyota SR5 22r 300k+.
1993 Dodge Caravan with over 200k.
1978 F250 with a 351 with over 200k.
No start up problems. No holes through the block. This is in many vehicles and many different drivers.
Like someone said above, I don't use them anymore due to cost. But this mindset that Frams kill motors, conventional oil kills motors, this brand or that brand is going too far.
There are TONS of vehicles on the road with many miles, do not see regular BITOG maintenance and still run fine.
Bill
This looks like an abused engine from the colour inside the hole but I could be wrong..
I know I can't use the Fram Oil filter spec'd for my engine because it restricts the flow too much and actually causes my oil light to flicker at the stop-lights. There was even a TSB from my manufacturer that said so.
Post that TSB for us.
I've got 330k miles on a 1986 Jetta which has seen mostly Frams. I've cut open HUNDREDS of oil filters (each and every one for over 30+ years) and except a WIX this year never seen / had any problems.
How about a 1996 Chevy truck with 250k using Frams.
1982 Toyota SR5 22r 300k+.
1993 Dodge Caravan with over 200k.
1978 F250 with a 351 with over 200k.
No start up problems. No holes through the block. This is in many vehicles and many different drivers.
Like someone said above, I don't use them anymore due to cost. But this mindset that Frams kill motors, conventional oil kills motors, this brand or that brand is going too far.
There are TONS of vehicles on the road with many miles, do not see regular BITOG maintenance and still run fine.
Bill
Originally Posted By: Bill in Utah
I've got 330k miles on a 1986 Jetta which has seen mostly Frams. I've cut open HUNDREDS of oil filters (each and every one for over 30+ years) and except a WIX this year never seen / had any problems.
Well it's obvious that all those Fram filters left your
engine in such a poor state that the Wix failed.
Kelly
I've got 330k miles on a 1986 Jetta which has seen mostly Frams. I've cut open HUNDREDS of oil filters (each and every one for over 30+ years) and except a WIX this year never seen / had any problems.
Well it's obvious that all those Fram filters left your
engine in such a poor state that the Wix failed.
Kelly
""Nobody in their right mind uses a street Fram filter""
What the heck?
Steve
What the heck?
Steve
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