Disappointed with AMSOIL Engine Flush

[Mystic]

You have to figure if it will clean metal that well what does it do to any gaskets, plastic parts, etc.?

I have no question that ChemTool B-12 will work. I had a plugged up fuel injector and it definitely cleaned that injector.

But I think I will use safer fuel additives. I am thinking about trying Redline fuel system cleaner.

I am pretty well turned off from using any engine flushes at all-I know that Auto-RX works and Neutra is probably an adequate low cost engine cleaner. The one engine flush I might use would be Lubegard engine flush. They claim that their engine flush does not have anything in it that will damage an engine.

 

[JohnBrowning]

Here goes something of interest to oil junkys. I recently was researching seal materials for Toyotas. It apears that they are now useing teflon front and rear main seals on all of their new design engines like the 2AZFE etc.... They claim that they are impervious to automotive solvents and additives used in oils. This same day I found simalar wording comeing from Jasper Engine Tech. I can also confirm that OEM Toyota valve seals are Viton.

I woulder if AUto-Rx will be able to help these newer seals made from teflon when they begin to fail?


I also found out that GM's new high content 3.6 V6 is going to use Teflon front and rear main seals as well!

[ February 29, 2004, 11:01 PM: Message edited by: JohnBrowning ]

 

[TooSlick]

I've been using the Amsoil flush since 1980 and have had very good results with it. This includes countless engines that I have personally changed over to Amsoil for customers over the years. I began selling Amsoil while in grad school at Georgia Tech,so I did a lot of the labor myself on these early sales ....

What I do is fast idle the engine at two times the normal idle speed, for a full 30 minutes, after installing a new oil filter - I use a piece of cordwood or a brick on the gas pedal until I have the right # of rpms on the tach.. The flush does a good job of removing most of the softer sludge/gum deposits and some of the varnish.

The first 1-2 batches of Amsoil you run after the flush will complete the cleaning process - if the engine is really dirty I'd run one of the Amsoil diesel oils first! It can take 10,000-15,000 miles for the organic esters in the Amsoil basestock blend to dissolve baked on varnish deposits.

I gather you're not voting for Ralph Nader?

Tooslick

 

[Lubricious]

B-12 is also made from some ordinary household chemical like nail polish remover?
This is really interesting!

[ March 01, 2004, 02:14 PM: Message edited by: Lubricious ]

 

[Lubricious]

quote:

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Originally posted by Lubricious:
Hey, I've got an idea!
If AMSOIL can sell KERO in a can and call it an engine flush, maybe I can sell tap water in a bottle and call it Lubricious Radiator Coolant and Water Pump Lubricant.

---

 

[JohnBrowning]

Lubricious, I dare you to use B-12 on your nails!! If you dit once I doubt you will do it again.

The comparison you are makeing is like saying the Phospheric acid used to dip body pannels must be drinkable because phospheric acid is in Coke-a-Cola.

Last I checked the primary ingreadient in nail polish remover was acetone. While acetone is in B-12 it is not the primary ingredient!

 

[Sid]

I used AMSOIL flush in my old car. When I was done flushing I changed the oil and their were tiny chunks coming out. Didn't feel much different. Although their intake foam spray cleaner did an awesome job.

 

[daze]

From reading other forums as well as this one about flushing/cleaning engine deposits, I really do not think a 1 time application of anything but a kerosene/oil mixture will show much results. AutoRX works over time and is gentle, as is most of the other products on the market because of the inherent liabilities involved.

 

[JohnBrowning]

Kerosine is not very good solvent! I used the quart of kerosine for flushing for years at each oil change even on really nasty used cars I picked up cheap as a kid! I never say much of anything accomplished by this. I would simply remove the valve cover check for sludge. I would run the kerosine and then recheck. I never saw a big impact.

I also would not want to try adding kerosine to a trany. You can add auto-rx. I would hate to see hwhat a 1500 mile UOA would show if you added a quart of kerosine and your 4-6 quarts of fresh oil and drove it for 1500 miles! I am sure that the results would not look preety! Auto-Rx on the other hand does not cause wear metals to rise at all.

When the Kerosine cooks off dureing driveing wear are the contaimnets it free's going to end up once the kerosine burns off? What does a quart of Kerosine do to lubricity of the oil?

If most solvents were gentel then you would not be limited to 5 minutes or 15 minutes of use! You could simply add then to your crank case and drive around for 1500 miles!

While it did not do much for my engine. I know wounder if my car did not have a coolant leak 1 year ago and it was just so minor that it was not obivious on the dipstick or in the oil when drained. If so this would explain it. It did work wounderful in my teransmission just as advertised!!!

[ March 04, 2004, 02:03 PM: Message edited by: JohnBrowning ]

 

[DNS]

quote:

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Originally posted by wulimaster:
I suspect the reason Amsoil even sells a flush is to protect against those who are switching from petroleum oil in an engine that might have a lot of sludge/gel/grime attached to the engine and pan. Adding Amsoil or any PAO/ester oil will break the bonds slowly and release large chunks which will clog up the oil pickup and block oil passages which will lead to oil starvation to parts of the engine. the flush quickly dissolves the sludge so that it comes out in the drain and doesn't come out after you have run the Amsoil a few hundred miles and blocks off your oil passages.

I have my wonders about auto-rx and how it breaks down the sludge/gel. Does it release the bonds at the gel/metal barrier or disolve the surface layer by layer until the sludge is totally disolved. I believe this is a question for Frank and a little off topic.

Anything strong enough to remove the varnish in 15-20 minutes would probably eat through seals and gaskets too.

If you don't recommend the flush before adding synthetic then you may cause your customers engines more harm.

---

If you ask Amsoil about using their engine flush in motorcycle engines they will tell you not to use it because of the wet clutch. They will also tell that it isn't needed because because Amsoil engine oil has enough detergents to clean the engine. It appears they sell it as a quick cleaner rather than as something that really needs to be used before switching to synthetic.

 

[FowVay]

It sounds like this product and others like it are being used for the wrong applications. These types of engine flushes are not really intended to remove varnish and carbonized deposits. These flushes are there for the sole purpose of thinning the oil to help with a more complete and thorough drain of the old fluid.

Engine oil has a tendency to stick to metal engine parts. These kerosene based flushes are intended to thin the oil and cause it to drain out of the engine once the plug is removed. That is why they only want you to run the engine for short periods of time and under no load.

They work well at their actual intended purpose but they don't clean engine parts like you may think. They simply allow for a better evacuation of dirty oil from the engine.

 

[darkdan]

Well then, they shouldn't say it removes varnish on the package. =)

 

[FowVay]

It's all marketing Dan. If there is varnish in your oil then it does remove it. Did it specifically say that it removed varnish from the metal?

There isn't much truth in marketing these days. You have to be prepared for the craziest antics that they can think of.

They could put on the package that it removes varnish, gum, soot, metal particles, etc, from the engine. They would just forget to mention that all of this stuff is suspended in the oil when it drains out.

 

[unDummy]

What'd you expect?

Flushes clean out oil passages and pressured flow areas a lot better than residual splash areas.
Its no different than holding a part in a parts washer. If you don't aim, you'll be there awhile.

I am glad that you were consistent with dirty oil pics both before and after. But this might cover up some of the cleaning.
When taking pictures, try changing the oil 1st. The pictures don't look all that bad to me, and once all the darker oil is rinsed off with clean oil, would look better.
This could be said about any, beforeafter, comparison. I'm getting tired of seeing black oil before pics with amber oil after pics. Beforeafter black dirty oil pics show nothing since the dirty oil is still sticking everywhere and makes me think "Whats the point?"

Next time use $.25 of kerosene or $.50 of biodiesel.

 

[darkdan]

I was expecting more.

There was some sludge, or chunks of stuff, or something under the cam shaft. I should have taken pictures of it.

Also, I poured the engine flush directly onto everything with the valve cover off. So I was hoping for more.

I really can't wait till I put on a few thousand more miles so I can do autorx. I'll take pictures again.

The nice thing about this engine is when things go right (not breaking bolts for example) it takes 10 minutes to get the valve cover off. =)

Anyone have anything they want me to test in it? Please, nothing dangerous!

 

[MolaKule]

Dan,

Most cleaners work better when hot or heat activated, just a fact of chemistry.

 

[darkdan]

Exactly, that's why I ran the car for 28 minutes. Which is a little longer than the directions called for.

I was expecting to open the valve cover again and be able to use my valve train as a shaving mirror, but I would have liked some visual results.