Dino + Additive vs. Synthetic

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From my readings (BITOG, rumor gas spec. test, M1s marketing, and oil technology) here's my best guess on the M1 product (these opinions are worth the paper they're written on) -

M1 0w20 - all Grp IV
M1 5w20,5w30,10w30 - no idea
M1 0w30 - all Grp IV
M1 0w40 - all Grp IV
M1 EP line - Grp III and IV mix.
M1 HM - Grp III and IV mix.
 
Actually, from M1's own statement - the EP line is just the reg. line w/ 50% more supersyn. I know this doesn't tie them down to having to have the same base stock in both, but from their statements that is how you would read it. Thus, whatever the regular lines are (5w30, 10w30, 15w50), that what the EP lines are (ie, Grp III or Grp. IV). (from these statements)

I do understand the frustration w/ M1's marketing and not stating outright what's in the brew. But the argument that they are charging a premium just got less teeth - the Wal-Marts here in Little Rock have done a price roll back on the reg. M1 line to $19 and change (not a sale, that's now the new price). That's only a few $ more than the Super Tech Synthetic. (Which of course also gives more teeth to the "M1 reg. line has Grp III" argument).
 
I don't think my attempts at oil education do enough good for me to continue the effort. I'll just have to accept that this site will be just like other internet sites that talk about oil.
 
Eric, I specifically gave you a link of all synthetic base oils for motor oils that Mobil makes. The esters and alkylated napthalenes comprising Group 5 were not mentioned in your later posts of your guess of base oils in M1 motor oils. Somewhere, there was a disconnect! I'm not upset with you so don't take it that way. I'm just upset with the majority of posts on the oil forums. I've spent way too much time busting my butt providing links of important information, doing tests myself / posting the results, and correcting incorrect posts. It is not doing enough good for me to continue. There are a few people here left that want to learn and have the ability to learn, but they are such a tiny minority.
 
To my credit, I just read your link to the Mobil 1 info - BEFORE I read your last post (above) on folks not reading your links.
smile.gif


Very good link. To summarize it -

1) Mobil 1 is a (possibly THE) big dog on the block in the PAO market.


3) Mobil1 creates Alkylated Naphthalene that spank the all PAOs period.

4) Mobil1 has all these to choose from in creating their Mobil 1 product line.

Thus to discuss an M1 product as merely a Grp IV product -though this was once a high and lofty statement - this may now be selling M1 short to the pt of be MIS-INFORMATION! (Now I'm doing it.)
 
Correct me if I'm wrong - it's

Grp IV - PAO
Grp V - High PAO
GRP VI - Alkylated Naphthalene

So the dicussion - Is a certain M1 product line Grp III or Grp IV? - is a rather uneducated question.
 
Bravo Eric! The link has done good now. The only correction I have is that PAOs are only classified as Group 4 even if they are old-fashioned PAOs or the newer wild types, both of which Mobil makes.

Group 5 is defined as anything that's not in Groups 1-4. Esters and alkylated napthalene are examples of Group 5. Oils made from plants like modified corn oil would also be Group 5. Auto-RX consists of esters so it is Group 5. Group 5 is what makes synthetics interesting because they can have such unique properties and even in small concentrations can greatly affect motor oil performance. Adding Auto-RX is an example. A cleaning dosage only has 5% of Auto-RX added to motor oil but it can have big effect on cleaning ability.

I really like your last sentence:
"So the dicussion - Is a certain M1 product line Grp III or Grp IV? - is a rather uneducated question."

You've learned well in a short time period and I thought you could judging from your past, logical posts.
 
mobile still give higher iron #'s than most oil! can someone elaborate on that please??? if its sooooo good then why the high wear #????? i may continue with mobile 1 syn if they drop the price but with all of that iron wear compared to even dino oils i may just make the switch anyway
 
Quote:

mobile still give higher iron #'s than most oil!

Click to expand...


I agree with that trend in UOAs but what that trend means and does not mean is what matters. If you have not already, read the link above about wear metals in UOAs.
 
no they arent but just from the iron #'s alone mobile 1 syn sucks lol.... also the taxi cab test isnt exactly precise. for one they dont tell you what weight of oil and they dont tell you how long they have been running with mobile 1 syn either... it could have been only 10k miles and of course the motor is going to look good! need details

for those of you that love mobil 1 syn, do you have pics and proof that its great oil?? just curious
 
I know I sound like I love M1 but I don't and there are only certain M1 oils that I think have some advantages over the competition to warrant their use. The M1 lineup is extremely diverse. I just post so much in threads where M1 is discussed because no other brands draw as much inaccurate statements as it does.

Pics and proof? I am baffled by that question. It's so other-worldly. What do really want to know?...don't ask if M1 is a great oil since it has no meaning. It's like asking if Spanish women are beautiful.
 
By dino, I guess you mean Grp II as some GrpIII pass for synthetics. GrpII + Esters could be better than GrpIV (pure PAO without esters) under normal driving conditions (only). Credit for that would go to Ester molecules that become polar and hence cling to metal. GrpIV molecules without esters will not cling to metal. However, without knowing whether synthetic esters are present in a dino oil, one cannot know whether it is better or not. Also, esters may not prevent dino oil from evaporating or creating sludge from high heat.
Also, film thickness is not a strong point for dino.
 
MikeG, which Taxi Cab test are you looking at ???

Here's the details (and a link) for those interested in THE Mobil 1 Las Vegas taxi cab test -

Test covered 105,000 miles minimum on each vehicle.
OCI was 15,000 miles.
Engine idle time was approx 3-to-1 vs. drive time.
Ambient temps >115 in summer.
Wear metals, oil consumption, engine cleanliness were evaluated. Third party evaluated engine at end of test. All results "EXCELLENT" if Mobil 1 and the third party is to be believed. Note it doesn't say that third party did the wear analysis, though surely a third party chk included wear levels on internal parts (that would seem to be a given).

MikeG, you say Mobil 1 "sucks" based on (how many?) iron reading UOAs.

A taxi cab test that is likely harsher than 99% of any driving habits presented on BITOG, seems to indicate otherwise.
 
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