diesel gensets

[JTK]

I know with my tiny portable 1850/1500watt suitcase generator, I've never had it trip it's breaker on an overload. It will just peg up against it's governor and bog while the devices it's trying to power are begging for mercy trying to come up to speed.

IMO, for residential standby power, you wanna make sure your necessities are covered to a point where you can still manage a fuel supply.

Joel

 

[turbodieselfreak]

Originally Posted By: JTK
I know with my tiny portable 1850/1500watt suitcase generator, I've never had it trip it's breaker on an overload. It will just peg up against it's governor and bog while the devices it's trying to power are begging for mercy trying to come up to speed.

Joel
That's precisely what I want to avoid. You guys have me looking at smaller units now. The 2-71 is out, what do you think about a kubota gl-11000? Anyone here own one? It looks like it will run the entire house no problem.

 

[JTK]

Anything Kubota builds seems to last forever with minimal attention. I don't see how you could go wrong there. http://generator.kubota.jp/gl/gl_11000_usa.html

Joel

 

[doitmyself]

When we installed a 17 Kw Kohler generator at my workplace, they told me you should size it so that during long usage,it is running not over about 80% capacity.

Any truth to this?

Thanks.

 

[boraticus]

Originally Posted By: turbodieselfreak
Originally Posted By: JTK
I know with my tiny portable 1850/1500watt suitcase generator, I've never had it trip it's breaker on an overload. It will just peg up against it's governor and bog while the devices it's trying to power are begging for mercy trying to come up to speed.

Joel
That's precisely what I want to avoid. You guys have me looking at smaller units now. The 2-71 is out, what do you think about a kubota gl-11000? Anyone here own one? It looks like it will run the entire house no problem.


I don't recommend one of those gensets. As much as I appreciate Kubota, those units aren't in the same class as their 1800 rpm systems. You'll burn more fuel with anything making the same power running at twice the rpms.
Also, I might be wrong but those units probably aren't direct drive. I think they have a belt driven generator.

Check out the link below. They sell some excellent units at very reasonable prices.

http://www.generatorsales.com/kubota-generators.asp

 

[labman]

Originally Posted By: doitmyself
When we installed a 17 Kw Kohler generator at my workplace, they told me you should size it so that during long usage,it is running not over about 80% capacity.

Any truth to this?

Thanks.


My little Coleman says 6250 watts, but the fine print says 6000 watts continuous. Just happens to be the limits for NM-B 10-3 and a 30 amp breaker too.

For less than $1000, I have a legal setup that can run everything but the kitchen range and the A/C.

 

[Cup of Joe]

Originally Posted By: turbodieselfreak
That's precisely what I want to avoid. You guys have me looking at smaller units now. The 2-71 is out, what do you think about a kubota gl-11000? Anyone here own one? It looks like it will run the entire house no problem.


Don't come down to far. Evaluate your power needs and go from there.

I was doing power testing on Saturday with my Generac 7000EXL, its rated at 7kw continuous and 12250 surge. Something about my heat pump system is drawing a huge load everytime I switched it on. Without the heat pump I had a power surplus with every device running including the water heater. I closed all the circuit and ran the heat pump then added the water heater and the generator nearly stalled. I am going to be giving the engine a once over to make sure I am getting my full 14hp to the shaft since this unit sat for 3-4 years. I am also going to take a closer look at my heat pump inside and outside units to see if there is a higher then expected draw that the generator is having trouble over coming.

If the power head cannot keep up with the demand I may end up with a Kioti diesel powered emergency generator.

I've also seen a few demilitarized 50kw towable units. I bet the neighbors would cough up some gas money in a pinch.

 

[marco246]

Originally Posted By: TaterandNoodles
Originally Posted By: turbodieselfreak
That's precisely what I want to avoid. You guys have me looking at smaller units now. The 2-71 is out, what do you think about a kubota gl-11000? Anyone here own one? It looks like it will run the entire house no problem.


Don't come down to far. Evaluate your power needs and go from there.

I was doing power testing on Saturday with my Generac 7000EXL, its rated at 7kw continuous and 12250 surge. Something about my heat pump system is drawing a huge load everytime I switched it on. Without the heat pump I had a power surplus with every device running including the water heater. I closed all the circuit and ran the heat pump then added the water heater and the generator nearly stalled. I am going to be giving the engine a once over to make sure I am getting my full 14hp to the shaft since this unit sat for 3-4 years. I am also going to take a closer look at my heat pump inside and outside units to see if there is a higher then expected draw that the generator is having trouble over coming.

If the power head cannot keep up with the demand I may end up with a Kioti diesel powered emergency generator.

I've also seen a few demilitarized 50kw towable units. I bet the neighbors would cough up some gas money in a pinch.


T&N,

My Generac is identical to yours. I'm surprised to hear your engine will bog rather than trip one of the breakers. When I connect my genset to the house (inverter) via a cable connected to the three-prong locking 120V, 30 Amp AC plug, it runs fine until (inevitably) my wife finds a reason to switch on the 1/2 HP garbage disposal. Trips the far left breaker every time. You might want to check the appropriate breaker. I'd think your voltage regulator might be in danger. There are a couple of ways to adjust the genset's output: a screw on the master control board and the engine's governor. The former controls the voltage range. The latter the engine rpm, voltage, and herz. But if you've not adjusted them previously, they probably don't require it. Once you get it squared away, you should run it under load periodically. I do it monthly for an hour.

I really like the idea of hooking up a generator to a tractor's PTO. The downsides are you lose the use of the tractor and you usually have to run the tractor at or near 3000 rpm. Nevertheless, once my Generac plays out, it's an attractive option.

Cheers!

 

[turbodieselfreak]

Originally Posted By: boraticus
Originally Posted By: turbodieselfreak
Originally Posted By: JTK
I know with my tiny portable 1850/1500watt suitcase generator, I've never had it trip it's breaker on an overload. It will just peg up against it's governor and bog while the devices it's trying to power are begging for mercy trying to come up to speed.

Joel
That's precisely what I want to avoid. You guys have me looking at smaller units now. The 2-71 is out, what do you think about a kubota gl-11000? Anyone here own one? It looks like it will run the entire house no problem.


I don't recommend one of those gensets. As much as I appreciate Kubota, those units aren't in the same class as their 1800 rpm systems. You'll burn more fuel with anything making the same power running at twice the rpms.
Also, I might be wrong but those units probably aren't direct drive. I think they have a belt driven generator.

Check out the link below. They sell some excellent units at very reasonable prices.

http://www.generatorsales.com/kubota-generators.asp
That unit is direct drive and water cooled, but I hadn't thought about the fuel consumption at 3600 rpms. I have found some comparable 1800 rpm japanese made 3 cylinder units for cheaper, so I think you guys finally have me looking in the right direction.

 

[Cup of Joe]

Originally Posted By: marco246

T&N,

My Generac is identical to yours. I'm surprised to hear your engine will bog rather than trip one of the breakers. When I connect my genset to the house (inverter) via a cable connected to the three-prong locking 120V, 30 Amp AC plug, it runs fine until (inevitably) my wife finds a reason to switch on the 1/2 HP garbage disposal. Trips the far left breaker every time. You might want to check the appropriate breaker. I'd think your voltage regulator might be in danger. There are a couple of ways to adjust the genset's output: a screw on the master control board and the engine's governor. The former controls the voltage range. The latter the engine rpm, voltage, and herz. But if you've not adjusted them previously, they probably don't require it. Once you get it squared away, you should run it under load periodically. I do it monthly for an hour.

I really like the idea of hooking up a generator to a tractor's PTO. The downsides are you lose the use of the tractor and you usually have to run the tractor at or near 3000 rpm. Nevertheless, once my Generac plays out, it's an attractive option.

Cheers!


I was surprised it was not tripping a breaker myself, I am using the 4 prong locking 240 volt outlet. It is running flawlessly with everything except the heat pump, then its easy to over load the engine. I am using the original air handler but replaced the outside unit with a Trane XR-14 in Febraury of this year. Something I just thought of since I was running the unit for heat I am wondering if it is energizing the auxilary heat coils which would effectively double the power demand. If I get some time to do more testing while the family is out of the house for the day I may try flipping the breakers on the heat coils. I am still going to perform my checks on the engine just to be sure its not a carboretor or valve adjustment issue. This engine is low hour but its been over 6 years so I just want to rule out any issues from sitting.

My main issue with using the PTO generator is that I would not be able to use my tractor during that time. My tractor turns 2600 rpm for 540 pto rpm. I would be running a 15kw generator so I maybe able to lower the rpm to 2000 rpm while using the generator, but I have not verified that since I would rather be able to use the tractor in case of distructive weather.

 

[Cup of Joe]

Originally Posted By: turbodieselfreak
[quote=boraticus I have found some comparable 1800 rpm japanese made 3 cylinder units for cheaper, so I think you guys finally have me looking in the right direction.



No issues with a Japanese diesel John Deere uses Yanmar diesel engines which are Japanese.

 

[boraticus]

Originally Posted By: TaterandNoodles
Originally Posted By: turbodieselfreak
[quote=boraticus I have found some comparable 1800 rpm japanese made 3 cylinder units for cheaper, so I think you guys finally have me looking in the right direction.



No issues with a Japanese diesel John Deere uses Yanmar diesel engines which are Japanese.


My 853cc three cylinder liquid cooled Kubota diesel has been powering my 7KW generator at my camp for 27 years. It's got close to 6000 hours on it and runs like day one. I've read that these engines, if properly maintained, will usually get 30,000 to 50,000 hours on them before they need serious work. Amazing little engines, that's for sure.

 

[turbodieselfreak]

Originally Posted By: TaterandNoodles
Originally Posted By: turbodieselfreak
[quote=boraticus I have found some comparable 1800 rpm japanese made 3 cylinder units for cheaper, so I think you guys finally have me looking in the right direction.



No issues with a Japanese diesel John Deere uses Yanmar diesel engines which are Japanese.
Though I would prefer to buy made in the USA and support jobs here, I have zero concerns with japanese quality. It's the chinese junk I don't trust, and that goes for almost anything made there. I think even the koreans have caught up to and passed china's quality control standards-look how far hyundai has come since their first hatchback sold here.

 

[Cup of Joe]

My Kioti tractor is made by Daedong in South Korea. The same or similar models produced by Daedong have been sold branded Bobcat and Cub Cadet.

 

[boraticus]

Originally Posted By: turbodieselfreak
Originally Posted By: TaterandNoodles
Originally Posted By: turbodieselfreak
[quote=boraticus I have found some comparable 1800 rpm japanese made 3 cylinder units for cheaper, so I think you guys finally have me looking in the right direction.



No issues with a Japanese diesel John Deere uses Yanmar diesel engines which are Japanese.
Though I would prefer to buy made in the USA and support jobs here, I have zero concerns with japanese quality. It's the chinese junk I don't trust, and that goes for almost anything made there. I think even the koreans have caught up to and passed china's quality control standards-look how far hyundai has come since their first hatchback sold here.


I recently bought an inexpensive Champion 3500 watt, Chinese built generator. I have to say, despite my chagrin for Chinese manufactured product dominance in our markets, their quality has improved immensely in the manufacturing of small engines/generators. Can't say anything about their diesels but if they've come as far as their small gasoline engines, they're probably worth their price. I'm not saying they're as good as Japanese diesels, but look at the price difference. Either way, if I'm looking for stone axe reliability, fuel efficiency and quiet operation, I'd definitely be leaning toward a 1800 rpm, Kubota powered unit.

Regarding Hyundai's overnight build quality achievement miracle, there's a very good reason for that. They lured the top dogs from Toyota's quality control department to go work for them. The Toyota defectors took all of the quality control operating manuals with them when they left. Toyota have a law suit filed against Hyundai to get their manuals back. Not sure what that will do for them? After all, the cat's already out of the bag..

 

[turbodieselfreak]

Originally Posted By: boraticus
Originally Posted By: turbodieselfreak
Originally Posted By: TaterandNoodles
Originally Posted By: turbodieselfreak

to save a buck and then wonder where all the jobs went-I try to practice what I preach. One unit I'm considering has a mitsubishi diesel engine, but is otherwise made in the USA. I can't think of an american engine maker offering an equivalent, so I can settle for the japanese product-at least they build some of their stuff here and employ my fellow americans. Even if chinese quality is up, I'm reading page after page of reviews saying that spare parts are nonexistent for these generators, along with customer service. I saw a review for one of the chinese "duropower" branded twin cylinder diesel sets, rated at 12kw. The price seemed to good to be true, and after reading complaint after complaint, along with flags for investigation by the BBB, the old phrase was proven once again. That pretty much makes my mind up for me!

 

[boraticus]

Buying anything domestic these days is a difficult chore indeed. Many of the components on what we normally accept as a domestic products, are built in China. I'm not a proponent of "buying Chinese", Although I do so whether I like it or not. It's simply a matter availability.

Here's a good example:

Last year, Tecumseh went out of business. I don't know for sure if B&S didn't have the manufacturing capacity to immediately fill the void or, that they were caught flat footed and missed the opportunity. (You would have thought they would have been able to see Tecumseh's demise coming.) Now, when I go into the box stores, I seem domestic brand snow throwers and other outdoor power equipment sporting some hitherto unknown engine brands. PowerMore, LCT and Champion are just a few. The domestic manufacturers are pretty sneaky about it too. I have yet to see one of these Chinese engines with "Made in China" label on it.

The bottom line is that we as consumers have fewer and fewer choices to buy "North American" built products. I'd also like to add that the domestic manufacturing sectors in both Canada and the USA do not seem to have the same loyalty nor concern for Canadian and American workers as consumers do. They have no problem shipping work off shore to save costs on labour.

You can pretty much bet that every time a collective agreement comes up for renewal, a percentage of them will will be terminated, the plant will close it's doors here and set up shop in China. We can thank Walmart for this. They are the retailer that changed the manufacturing/marketing relationship in North America.

Prior to Walmart's rise to dominance, industry built a product, put a price on it and offered it to retailers. Retailers would either pay the unit price or negotiate a mutually agreeable volume based price. All was well. People worked, stores sold, manufacturers built.

About fifteen to twenty years ago, Walmart upset the apple cart. In order for them to capture the majority of retail market, they knew they had to drive down prices. By that time, they had already begun to tap into Chinese cheap labour and production and were very much familiar with the vast potential to be had in China. Once Walmart achieved a very much imbalanced dominance in the
the North American retail business, they pretty much had the manufacturing sector by the tail. Now, when Walmart went to a manufacturer to buy their product, Walmart dictated the price they'd pay for the manufacturer's product. If a manufacturer couldn't afford to build the product to meet Walmart's price, Walmart wouldn't buy from them thus forcing them to either go out of business or move operations to China where reliable labour was available for thirty cents an hour.

Since that Pandora's box was opened, much of North American manufacturing have embraced the Chinese opportunity with devastating consequences for our workers.

Despite my sympathy for North American workers, I have a great deal of trouble feeling any for our manufacturers and retailers (Walmart in particular) who close or cause the closure of plants here to set up shop in China.

Trying to buy domestic is an honourable gesture. Might be too little, too late. The manufacturer will do what they need to do to stay in business and make the highest profits possible.

Cheap Chinese labour has already gained a strangle hold on North American industry. We'll have to get used to seeing many of our educated kid's slinging burgers and mopping floors.

 

[xxch4osxx]

Originally Posted By: boraticus
Buying anything domestic these days is a difficult chore indeed. Many of the components on what we normally accept as a domestic products, are built in China. I'm not a proponent of "buying Chinese", Although I do so whether I like it or not. It's simply a matter availability.

Here's a good example:

Last year, Tecumseh went out of business. I don't know for sure if B&S didn't have the manufacturing capacity to immediately fill the void or, that they were caught flat footed and missed the opportunity. (You would have thought they would have been able to see Tecumseh's demise coming.) Now, when I go into the box stores, I seem domestic brand snow throwers and other outdoor power equipment sporting some hitherto unknown engine brands. PowerMore, LCT and Champion are just a few. The domestic manufacturers are pretty sneaky about it too. I have yet to see one of these Chinese engines with "Made in China" label on it.

The bottom line is that we as consumers have fewer and fewer choices to buy "North American" built products. I'd also like to add that the domestic manufacturing sectors in both Canada and the USA do not seem to have the same loyalty nor concern for Canadian and American workers as consumers do. They have no problem shipping work off shore to save costs on labour.

You can pretty much bet that every time a collective agreement comes up for renewal, a percentage of them will will be terminated, the plant will close it's doors here and set up shop in China. We can thank Walmart for this. They are the retailer that changed the manufacturing/marketing relationship in North America.

Prior to Walmart's rise to dominance, industry built a product, put a price on it and offered it to retailers. Retailers would either pay the unit price or negotiate a mutually agreeable volume based price. All was well. People worked, stores sold, manufacturers built.

About fifteen to twenty years ago, Walmart upset the apple cart. In order for them to capture the majority of retail market, they knew they had to drive down prices. By that time, they had already begun to tap into Chinese cheap labour and production and were very much familiar with the vast potential to be had in China. Once Walmart achieved a very much imbalanced dominance in the
the North American retail business, they pretty much had the manufacturing sector by the tail. Now, when Walmart went to a manufacturer to buy their product, Walmart dictated the price they'd pay for the manufacturer's product. If a manufacturer couldn't afford to build the product to meet Walmart's price, Walmart wouldn't buy from them thus forcing them to either go out of business or move operations to China where reliable labour was available for thirty cents an hour.

Since that Pandora's box was opened, much of North American manufacturing have embraced the Chinese opportunity with devastating consequences for our workers.

Despite my sympathy for North American workers, I have a great deal of trouble feeling any for our manufacturers and retailers (Walmart in particular) who close or cause the closure of plants here to set up shop in China.

Trying to buy domestic is an honourable gesture. Might be too little, too late. The manufacturer will do what they need to do to stay in business and make the highest profits possible.

Cheap Chinese labour has already gained a strangle hold on North American industry. We'll have to get used to seeing many of our educated kid's slinging burgers and mopping floors.

Thats why I refuse to set foot in any Walmart. I will pay a higher price to buy from a local family owned store than go to Walmart.

 

[Gary Allan]

Yeah ..sawing your own legs out from under you for gain just doesn't make a whole lot of sense ..but no one wants to "float" someone else on their nickle either. So we are where we are.

Q: Do any of you water cooled diesel owners co-gen with the coolant and/or exchanging (or outright using) the exhaust?

On my long range (never probably ever to be completed) plans was to get a smaller water cooled diesel that I would vent the exhaust through my steam boiler ..recirc the coolant too. It's a low pressure system so it remains just above boiling. I just don't know if I can balance the thermal output with the heat demands ..or if I'll be way mismatched on the size of the diesel and therefore the gen set capacity.

If you can see what I'm struggling to communicate.

I'd hate to waste all that heat when I have a place to soak it up.

 

[boraticus]

I understand what you're saying but my answer is no.

I have my liquid cooled diesel in a garage 150 feet behind my camp. I heat the camp with wood so, I have no need for diesel engine heat byproduct. I know that diesels like to run at a certain temperature. If you try to capture too much heat from the cooling system, the diesel might not run at it's optimum temperature preference.

If the system is thermostatically controlled (as most are) and you bypass the radiator, you might be able to gain something from that. Not sure how much volume could actually be heated just from the combustion process. Might be able to make a real nice water heater though.