$3K is a huge savings for many hence the manual transmission is still popular.
Death of manual transmissions?
- Thread starter deoxy4
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I still like the smooth shifts from my 2005 Civic than my rental 2016 Accord CVT.
Well, at the time I got the Kitacam, IT was a good 2 thou$and less than it would've been had it been an AT
...the dealer thought that the MT Kitacam was a whale in a sea of Camrys driven by old farts like me but who unlike me just want the simple AT ride...
When they saw me, they quickly dropped the sale price by $1k from the lowest of 3 prices they had on the car (window sticker....vs higher cars.com and ebay prices)...and this after having installed a new clutch...they saw this Capt. Ahab coming a mile away and hooked ME before I knew it.
...the dealer thought that the MT Kitacam was a whale in a sea of Camrys driven by old farts like me but who unlike me just want the simple AT ride...
When they saw me, they quickly dropped the sale price by $1k from the lowest of 3 prices they had on the car (window sticker....vs higher cars.com and ebay prices)...and this after having installed a new clutch...they saw this Capt. Ahab coming a mile away and hooked ME before I knew it.
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JTK
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Originally Posted By: pottymouth
Wow! The manual in the Subaru must be unbelievably bad if you preferred the CVT. A 10 mile test drive of a 2016 Forester with CVT made me cross that vehicle off my list. I absolutely hated it. The worst CVT I have ever driven. All noise with little acceleration. Seemed to be only interested in saving gas. It felt like the gas pedal wasn't really connected to anything , the throttle response was so bad.
What specifically was wrong with the manual?
With my XV Crosstrek 5spd:
1) The pedal placement was too close for my average size 11s. Winter boots would cause you to press the brake along with the clutch.
2) Releasing the clutch pedal was very non-linear. You had to slip it to get a non-jarring take-off.
3) RPMs were high along with lots of NVH at highway speeds, yet the FB20 engine doesn't have enough ooph to make it enjoyable.
In regards to your Subaru CVT experience, what others have you driven? I've put a few miles on Nissan CVTs and some early Saturn VUE CVTs. If you don't care for a Subaru CVT, you'll REALLY hate most others.
Wow! The manual in the Subaru must be unbelievably bad if you preferred the CVT. A 10 mile test drive of a 2016 Forester with CVT made me cross that vehicle off my list. I absolutely hated it. The worst CVT I have ever driven. All noise with little acceleration. Seemed to be only interested in saving gas. It felt like the gas pedal wasn't really connected to anything , the throttle response was so bad.
What specifically was wrong with the manual?
With my XV Crosstrek 5spd:
1) The pedal placement was too close for my average size 11s. Winter boots would cause you to press the brake along with the clutch.
2) Releasing the clutch pedal was very non-linear. You had to slip it to get a non-jarring take-off.
3) RPMs were high along with lots of NVH at highway speeds, yet the FB20 engine doesn't have enough ooph to make it enjoyable.
In regards to your Subaru CVT experience, what others have you driven? I've put a few miles on Nissan CVTs and some early Saturn VUE CVTs. If you don't care for a Subaru CVT, you'll REALLY hate most others.
There's something to be said for a numb clutch in commute traffic versus something with a friction point that doubles as a weight stack and gives you a cramp. I'd definitely opt for an automatic if it was mostly stop and go traffic for any distance, but if it's 50/50 speed limit and slow, I'd always get the manual. Saving a thousand bucks is just icing on the cake....
Originally Posted By: DoubleWasp
To each their own. I have other cars with a third pedal. I enjoyed this one a lot more with the PDK than the stick. There's something to be said for being able to instantly execute gearchanges without having to remove a hand from the wheel.
There's no denying that there is a very good reason why automated manual transmissions have replaced stickshift transmissions for performance driving.
Agreed; like I said earlier, I love thrashing my three pedal Club Sport but the M235i is just a rocket with the 8HP45.
To each their own. I have other cars with a third pedal. I enjoyed this one a lot more with the PDK than the stick. There's something to be said for being able to instantly execute gearchanges without having to remove a hand from the wheel.
There's no denying that there is a very good reason why automated manual transmissions have replaced stickshift transmissions for performance driving.
Agreed; like I said earlier, I love thrashing my three pedal Club Sport but the M235i is just a rocket with the 8HP45.
Found myself in traffic today, nothing major, rolling along at 20mph or whatever. I locked it into 3rd (IOW, wouldn't allow it to shift above 3rd), which won't allow lockup in my truck. As a result, engine would drop to 1,000rpm while coasting and 1,500rpm at the slightest throttle.
Annoying.
Any other transmission would have done what I wanted to do, to modulate speed by modulating throttle; but this up/down engine rpm was grating.
Annoying.
Any other transmission would have done what I wanted to do, to modulate speed by modulating throttle; but this up/down engine rpm was grating.
Originally Posted By: supton
Found myself in traffic today, nothing major, rolling along at 20mph or whatever. I locked it into 3rd (IOW, wouldn't allow it to shift above 3rd), which won't allow lockup in my truck. As a result, engine would drop to 1,000rpm while coasting and 1,500rpm at the slightest throttle.
Annoying.
Any other transmission would have done what I wanted to do, to modulate speed by modulating throttle; but this up/down engine rpm was grating.
Agreed; that's one thing I like about the Sport version of the 8HP45; you can put it in a full manual mode which will only override your commands in order to prevent a mechanical over-rev. In all other cases it does exactly what it is told to do.
Found myself in traffic today, nothing major, rolling along at 20mph or whatever. I locked it into 3rd (IOW, wouldn't allow it to shift above 3rd), which won't allow lockup in my truck. As a result, engine would drop to 1,000rpm while coasting and 1,500rpm at the slightest throttle.
Annoying.
Any other transmission would have done what I wanted to do, to modulate speed by modulating throttle; but this up/down engine rpm was grating.
Agreed; that's one thing I like about the Sport version of the 8HP45; you can put it in a full manual mode which will only override your commands in order to prevent a mechanical over-rev. In all other cases it does exactly what it is told to do.
Originally Posted By: MCompact
that's one thing I like about the Sport version of the 8HP45; you can put it in a full manual mode which will only override your commands in order to prevent a mechanical over-rev. In all other cases it does exactly what it is told to do.
So if you have it in this full manual mode, and are in 8th gear and come to a full stop and then start moving again, will it remain in 8th or drop back to 1st? Just curious.
that's one thing I like about the Sport version of the 8HP45; you can put it in a full manual mode which will only override your commands in order to prevent a mechanical over-rev. In all other cases it does exactly what it is told to do.
So if you have it in this full manual mode, and are in 8th gear and come to a full stop and then start moving again, will it remain in 8th or drop back to 1st? Just curious.
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
So if you have it in this full manual mode, and are in 8th gear and come to a full stop and then start moving again, will it remain in 8th or drop back to 1st? Just curious.
I haven't tried that yet; I do know it will let you hit the rev limiter without upshifting and it won't downshift if you give it full throttle in the higher gears.
So if you have it in this full manual mode, and are in 8th gear and come to a full stop and then start moving again, will it remain in 8th or drop back to 1st? Just curious.
I haven't tried that yet; I do know it will let you hit the rev limiter without upshifting and it won't downshift if you give it full throttle in the higher gears.
Originally Posted By: MCompact
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
So if you have it in this full manual mode, and are in 8th gear and come to a full stop and then start moving again, will it remain in 8th or drop back to 1st? Just curious.
I haven't tried that yet;
Let me know if you do. On our Q5 with 8HP55 trans, it will drop to 1st when in manual mode. Granted, I'm sure the programming is different.
Quote:
I do know it will let you hit the rev limiter without upshifting and it won't downshift if you give it full throttle in the higher gears.
Yup. Same here.
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
So if you have it in this full manual mode, and are in 8th gear and come to a full stop and then start moving again, will it remain in 8th or drop back to 1st? Just curious.
I haven't tried that yet;
Let me know if you do. On our Q5 with 8HP55 trans, it will drop to 1st when in manual mode. Granted, I'm sure the programming is different.
Quote:
I do know it will let you hit the rev limiter without upshifting and it won't downshift if you give it full throttle in the higher gears.
Yup. Same here.
When the 5,873rd thread about timing belts vs chains appeared the other day, I thought, "Oh great just what we need. Another thread about timing belts vs chains."
Then I thought "While we're at it, we should have another thread lamenting the lack of manual transmissions. We haven't had one of those in at least a week, so we're due for another."
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Yup. Same here.
My primary concern is shift control once I'm rolling; I don't want an un-commanded downshift when I open the throttle or an un-commanded upshift when I lift- and it does meet those demands.
Yup. Same here.
My primary concern is shift control once I'm rolling; I don't want an un-commanded downshift when I open the throttle or an un-commanded upshift when I lift- and it does meet those demands.
Beautiful. Sounds like they got the programming very accurately tuned to an enthusiasts way of thinking.
On our RAM with the 8 speed ZF unit the factory programming is excellent. Also very responsive when you manually shift it. But of course it downshifts as you get to the bottom of each gears rev range.
My service vans seem to ignore the manual shifting, only once in a while do they even seem to care what you want.
The SRT has very unique programming, extremely responsive when manually shifted. But it also will downshift to first as you stop no matter what. However you can command it to start in second if desired...
On our RAM with the 8 speed ZF unit the factory programming is excellent. Also very responsive when you manually shift it. But of course it downshifts as you get to the bottom of each gears rev range.
My service vans seem to ignore the manual shifting, only once in a while do they even seem to care what you want.
The SRT has very unique programming, extremely responsive when manually shifted. But it also will downshift to first as you stop no matter what. However you can command it to start in second if desired...
I went out for a short drive at lunch and as best I can determine, the full manual programming kicks in at around 40 mph. Below that speed it won't upshift to eighth gear. Also, it does downshift to first at a stop as well.
What's interesting is that the car has a Sport mode and a Sport+ mode; when you engage either one at cruise the transmission drops to sixth gear. However, the transmission also has a Sport mode that you engage by moving the selector lever to the left. That mode can be accessed without switching the car to Sport or Sport+. I haven't driven it enough to figure out how those two modes interact- but I'll have fun doing the research!
What's interesting is that the car has a Sport mode and a Sport+ mode; when you engage either one at cruise the transmission drops to sixth gear. However, the transmission also has a Sport mode that you engage by moving the selector lever to the left. That mode can be accessed without switching the car to Sport or Sport+. I haven't driven it enough to figure out how those two modes interact- but I'll have fun doing the research!
moving the selector left, isn't that to manual mode?
Originally Posted By: Jetronic
moving the selector left, isn't that to manual mode?
Moving the selector to the left gets you sport mode. Moving the selector forward or back(or using the paddles) puts the transmission in manual mode- where it will remain until you move the selector back to the right- or turn the car off.
moving the selector left, isn't that to manual mode?
Moving the selector to the left gets you sport mode. Moving the selector forward or back(or using the paddles) puts the transmission in manual mode- where it will remain until you move the selector back to the right- or turn the car off.
Originally Posted By: sciphi
Originally Posted By: hattaresguy
They are going the way of the crank start, only old timers drive them.
I have zero interest in owning one unless its in a toy car...and it would have to be a vintage toy car because modern auto's are just better.
Most of the cheap cars on that list with a stick are incredibly bad, Chevy Spark? I'd rather ride a bike.
I was in my mid-20's when I bought a brand-new car with a manual transmission. So was my brother when he bought his brand-new car with a manual. We're not planning on giving up either car until they're ready to be given up. So us younger folks are interested in manuals, too.
Most folks have junk commutes where a manual is a chore. Traffic bites, why make it more miserable than it has to be by having a dead-tired left leg when arriving at the office? A manual in an urban surface street environment needs to be a good one to make it any fun. Even then, in that environment it's yet another factor to attend to. Urban freeway is different. However, sitting in traffic not getting much past 4th is annoying. Steady-state driving is where manuals are good. Not many folks have that luxury these days.
THIS^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Originally Posted By: hattaresguy
They are going the way of the crank start, only old timers drive them.
I have zero interest in owning one unless its in a toy car...and it would have to be a vintage toy car because modern auto's are just better.
Most of the cheap cars on that list with a stick are incredibly bad, Chevy Spark? I'd rather ride a bike.
I was in my mid-20's when I bought a brand-new car with a manual transmission. So was my brother when he bought his brand-new car with a manual. We're not planning on giving up either car until they're ready to be given up. So us younger folks are interested in manuals, too.
Most folks have junk commutes where a manual is a chore. Traffic bites, why make it more miserable than it has to be by having a dead-tired left leg when arriving at the office? A manual in an urban surface street environment needs to be a good one to make it any fun. Even then, in that environment it's yet another factor to attend to. Urban freeway is different. However, sitting in traffic not getting much past 4th is annoying. Steady-state driving is where manuals are good. Not many folks have that luxury these days.
THIS^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
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