Death of a 3MZ-FE!!! Sludge pics inside!

Status
Not open for further replies.
Great series of photos, and tells a lot.

sludge doesn't usually accumulate where it is formed, sludge in oil solubility drops with temperature...



Look at the bottom end photo in particular...

See the lines next to the bearing exits, where the comparatively higher temperature (from bearing friction) oil flung from the bearing exits has nearly no mess ?

Front main, where the block is comparatively cooler from coolant inlet, and oil fresh from sump ?

Top end, could almost say that the inlet side is more sludged than the exhaust.
 
Originally Posted By: LT4 Vette
How much will it cost to get that SUV back on the road ?


Depends on how much the local salvage yard engine has it for
lol.gif
 
Originally Posted By: Shannow
Great series of photos, and tells a lot.

sludge doesn't usually accumulate where it is formed, sludge in oil solubility drops with temperature...



Look at the bottom end photo in particular...

See the lines next to the bearing exits, where the comparatively higher temperature (from bearing friction) oil flung from the bearing exits has nearly no mess ?

Front main, where the block is comparatively cooler from coolant inlet, and oil fresh from sump ?

Top end, could almost say that the inlet side is more sludged than the exhaust.


I think what you're talking about in the bottom end pic comes from the crank not having any oil supply and getting really hot. Notice how the counter weights are cooked clean and dry?



Originally Posted By: LT4 Vette
How much will it cost to get that SUV back on the road ?


Dunno? I try not to pay attention to the bills, they can get pretty crazy and I have no influence on them anyway.



Originally Posted By: hypervish
Originally Posted By: hounddog
If I am not mistaken that engine is a known sludge monster. I have a bud that is a retired airline captain. He bought one of those. At 20k it was toast. He had proof of oil/filters by the book. One by him,one or two by the dealer and one by a quick lube place. No more,no less. You could hardly see the rockers in his. Found out a known problem.


No, the 3MZ-FE is not a sludge monster.


I thought it wasn't much, if any different from the 1MZ-FE? What makes it not a sludger?
 
Originally Posted By: The_Eric
I thought it wasn't much, if any different from the 1MZ-FE? What makes it not a sludger?


IIRC, it was only a few years of the 1MZ that were sludge prone, and it was due to poor PCV design (which was corrected by the time the 3MZ came out, I think). We've had 2 1MZs in the family (still have 1, a 2005 at 165k miles, no issues). We've got 2 3MZs as well, an 05 and an 07 (one at about 50k and the other is around 70k, IIRC). They've all been pretty good.

Same with the 5S-FE. Only the later ones were sludge prone after they updated a few things on it. We had a 94 5S-FE in a Camry for a bit (only had it for a few thousand miles), which ran great while we had it (from about 162k to 166k, IIRC). We got rid of it because it lost a head gasket at 165k and the car just wasn't worth fixing. Even then, it still ran fine, just burned a bunch of coolant and had some nasty oil slime in the radiator (no apparent coolant in the oil though).
 
Originally Posted By: Dakota1820
Originally Posted By: Dakota1820
Originally Posted By: bepperb
Originally Posted By: DrDusty86
More Toyota junk..sludge prone scrap. So much for the quality


234,000 miles isn't enough, eh?


not really by todays standards with good care a good engine can do way more than that. my saturn has 212, 000 and its all but spotless inside a little varnishat the worst and thr 1.9 is HARD on oil.


I also believe the Toyota is overrated it seems like a lot of their engines have some kind of problem such as oil burning or oil sludge which to me is not very good engineering or quality



Oh, and your Saturn is right?
smirk.gif
 
Originally Posted By: lexus114
Oh, and your Saturn is right?
smirk.gif



grin.gif


Because, you know, Saturn vehicles have this impeccable reliability record.. LOL!!! /super sarcasm

Having owned 4 Saturns (93 SL2, 2000 LS2, 2003 VUE, 2005 L300) and 1 Toyota, I can tell you right now that the Toyota has more overall dependable reliability and less problems in its pinky finger than a whole fleet of Saturn vehicles.

One Toyota dies at 234,000 miles probably from owner neglect and all heck breaks loose...typical.
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: The_Eric
Originally Posted By: Shannow
Great series of photos, and tells a lot.

sludge doesn't usually accumulate where it is formed, sludge in oil solubility drops with temperature...



Look at the bottom end photo in particular...

See the lines next to the bearing exits, where the comparatively higher temperature (from bearing friction) oil flung from the bearing exits has nearly no mess ?

Front main, where the block is comparatively cooler from coolant inlet, and oil fresh from sump ?

Top end, could almost say that the inlet side is more sludged than the exhaust.


I think what you're talking about in the bottom end pic comes from the crank not having any oil supply and getting really hot. Notice how the counter weights are cooked clean and dry?



Originally Posted By: LT4 Vette
How much will it cost to get that SUV back on the road ?


Dunno? I try not to pay attention to the bills, they can get pretty crazy and I have no influence on them anyway.



Originally Posted By: hypervish
Originally Posted By: hounddog
If I am not mistaken that engine is a known sludge monster. I have a bud that is a retired airline captain. He bought one of those. At 20k it was toast. He had proof of oil/filters by the book. One by him,one or two by the dealer and one by a quick lube place. No more,no less. You could hardly see the rockers in his. Found out a known problem.


No, the 3MZ-FE is not a sludge monster.


I thought it wasn't much, if any different from the 1MZ-FE? What makes it not a sludger?


The 1MZ-FE motor was updated with larger oil passages mid-year 2001 (July to be exact).

Also, as long as you do oil changes on time the engine will look great. My RX300 and ES300 both have the 1MZ-FE motor and neither have sludge problems. My RX has almost 200k miles, and my ES has 180k miles. Both look clean enough to eat off of under the valve cover.
 
Originally Posted By: GearheadTool
Originally Posted By: LT4 Vette
How much will it cost to get that SUV back on the road ?


Depends on how much the local salvage yard engine has it for
lol.gif



Yeah, don't you just hate it when someone kills an engine by failing to attend to required maintenance:)
 
Originally Posted By: fdcg27
Wow!
Now, 234K isn't a bad life for an engine, but I wonder what caused all of this sludge?
...


A faulty part called the nut-behind-the-wheel...
 
Originally Posted By: hypervish

The 1MZ-FE motor was updated with larger oil passages mid-year 2001 (July to be exact).

Also, as long as you do oil changes on time the engine will look great. My RX300 and ES300 both have the 1MZ-FE motor and neither have sludge problems. My RX has almost 200k miles, and my ES has 180k miles. Both look clean enough to eat off of under the valve cover.





Originally Posted By: rslifkin

IIRC, it was only a few years of the 1MZ that were sludge prone, and it was due to poor PCV design (which was corrected by the time the 3MZ came out, I think). We've had 2 1MZs in the family (still have 1, a 2005 at 165k miles, no issues). We've got 2 3MZs as well, an 05 and an 07 (one at about 50k and the other is around 70k, IIRC). They've all been pretty good.



Thanks for setting me straight guys!
 
Originally Posted By: The_Eric
Originally Posted By: hypervish

The 1MZ-FE motor was updated with larger oil passages mid-year 2001 (July to be exact).

Also, as long as you do oil changes on time the engine will look great. My RX300 and ES300 both have the 1MZ-FE motor and neither have sludge problems. My RX has almost 200k miles, and my ES has 180k miles. Both look clean enough to eat off of under the valve cover.


Originally Posted By: rslifkin

IIRC, it was only a few years of the 1MZ that were sludge prone, and it was due to poor PCV design (which was corrected by the time the 3MZ came out, I think). We've had 2 1MZs in the family (still have 1, a 2005 at 165k miles, no issues). We've got 2 3MZs as well, an 05 and an 07 (one at about 50k and the other is around 70k, IIRC). They've all been pretty good.



Thanks for setting me straight guys!

Not prone to, the design was vulnerable to cheap owners and poor maintainers which is likely the case here. But you will never know. Who's going to admit they caused that, whos going to admit they neglected the car? Nobody. "I changed my oil right on time". "It wasn't me, its Toyotas fault". Yeah sure it is. I know plenty of people that owned these engines, none of them had any problems at all.
 
Originally Posted By: HollowEyes
Originally Posted By: DrDusty86
More Toyota junk..sludge prone scrap. So much for the quality


Thank you for your informative, fact filled, source cited, productive contribution to this thread.


Oh wait...

Originally Posted By: DrDusty86
Zx2-220k
3.0 Ranger 413k
99 PSD 331k


Ford has been better to me than Toyota/Honda/Nizzan

You make biased comments, get called on it, your reply is toss more bull out that can't be proved.
 
What's the tipping point moneywise on putting a remanufactured engine in a 10 year old car or dumping the car? It's probably easily at least $5000 to install a remanufactured or rebuilt engine in the car, less for an engine from bone yard, but why put that kinda money in a poorly maintained car that will probably need its poorly maintained tranny redone next month. Maybe dump this car instead of doing engine job!
 
Originally Posted By: DrDusty86
Zx2-220k
3.0 Ranger 413k
99 PSD 331k


Ford has been better to me than Toyota/Honda/Nizzan

What's a Nizzan?
 
Originally Posted By: Dakota1820
Originally Posted By: Dakota1820
Originally Posted By: bepperb
Originally Posted By: DrDusty86
More Toyota junk..sludge prone scrap. So much for the quality


234,000 miles isn't enough, eh?


not really by todays standards with good care a good engine can do way more than that. my saturn has 212, 000 and its all but spotless inside a little varnishat the worst and thr 1.9 is HARD on oil.


I also believe the Toyota is overrated it seems like a lot of their engines have some kind of problem such as oil burning or oil sludge which to me is not very good engineering or quality

Yup. Toyota is so overrated. And Saturn will be around for a long, long time.
 
Originally Posted By: hypervish
Originally Posted By: DrDusty86
More Toyota junk..sludge prone scrap. So much for the quality


I hope all 1000 of your posts aren't this stupid.


Well, most of it was probably from him complaining about how much his life sucks...
 
Originally Posted By: The_Eric
I think what you're talking about in the bottom end pic comes from the crank not having any oil supply and getting really hot. Notice how the counter weights are cooked clean and dry?


How did the walls of the block have "cooked" areas between the washed area from the con-rod oil sprays, and "clean" areas where the oil wash occurs from the crank throws ?

There's no external heat in that area, no friction, but gummy stuff, between lines of washed areas.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

Junk
Unknown brand filter C&P; 20K miles
Replies
9
Views
377
Sayjac
Number_35
2005 Hyundai Santa Fe - troubling symptoms, easy fix
Replies
5
Views
587
Propflux01
fantastic
2008 Volvo XC90 116k FWD 3.2L N/A
Replies
15
Views
1K
fantastic
B
Bought a "Trash Can"
Replies
8
Views
1K
bunnspecial
C
  • Locked
Sludge remediation regimen: Toyota 3MZ-FE V6
2
Replies
34
Views
14K
KL31
Back
Top