I'm only familiar with the W123 series as I grew up with one. The W124, from what I can find is a pretty reliable E-class since it was "Over-Engineered," unlike the Benz of present. Does anyone know anything he should be mindful when he goes to look at this wagon? I know the self-leveling rear struts are an expensive replacement, as it was on the W123 wagon.
Dad is looking at a W124 E-class (94 E320 Wagon)
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Hey, Jeep,
I've never owned a W124; I've just come off a W202 C-Class and before that one of the big S-Class W126s. But the word is that the W124 has a couple of weak spots.
One is the A/C. The evaporator or compressor is located behind the dash, and if it goes out, which it will eventually, there's a lot of labor involved getting to it.
Two is a leaky head gasket issue that was fixed in later years. Three is also a degradable wiring harness; there's an improved version available. I could be wrong on these two, as they may have been resolved by the factory for the '94 model year.
Check and make sure that all three of these have been done. Any car still running should have had these things seen to. If not, budget and make your offer accordingly.
Otherwise, they are solid and top-notch cars, as you noted. Good luck!
I've never owned a W124; I've just come off a W202 C-Class and before that one of the big S-Class W126s. But the word is that the W124 has a couple of weak spots.
One is the A/C. The evaporator or compressor is located behind the dash, and if it goes out, which it will eventually, there's a lot of labor involved getting to it.
Two is a leaky head gasket issue that was fixed in later years. Three is also a degradable wiring harness; there's an improved version available. I could be wrong on these two, as they may have been resolved by the factory for the '94 model year.
Check and make sure that all three of these have been done. Any car still running should have had these things seen to. If not, budget and make your offer accordingly.
Otherwise, they are solid and top-notch cars, as you noted. Good luck!
Ya the evaporator for the AC is a nightmare. Prolly cost more to fix than the car is worth.
We refuse to work on these cars at the shop I work at. They are like a snowball when it comes to repairs....Once it starts rolling it just gets bigger.
We refuse to work on these cars at the shop I work at. They are like a snowball when it comes to repairs....Once it starts rolling it just gets bigger.
I know you are right with the head gasket. I think that only plagues the 300E models with the 177hp 3.0L inline 6. The W124's E320 is the 3.2L, 217hp I6 that was available in the W210 for the first few years. My dad isn't worried about repairs too much as he used to own a W123 and knows what he might/can/possibly be getting himself into by buying another Benz. The AC will be a point I make sure it looked at by our mechanic.
JHZR2
Staff member
I dont see how the compressor could be behind the dash (other than the fact that it is in the engine bay), it must be mounted to the engine.
The evaporator in any car is behind te dash, and in any car is a royal pain to access, as some or all of the dash needs to be removed to get to it.
If its weak, is weak... this may be a virtue of the fact that some of these cars the 86-94ish MYs) came with R12 and likely got retrofitted to R134a, which runs at higher pressures, and cases havoc with most any AC system.
Even if not, an evaporator being a pain to access is nothing new, IMO.
As for MBs in general, ga$$ers are nice, but its the diesels that realy give good value and longevity. In a diesel, an owner wouldnt think twice about pulling the dash and replacing an evaporator, etc., if it is a nice rust free example, as the car will last a LONG time.
I dont think they sold diesel w124s over here, but if they did, this is what Id be looking for.
Even if not, and even if he needs a $2500 headgasket job, or a $2000 evaproator replacement, is he buying a w124 for a nice, well-engineered, long lasting car, or is he buying a mercedes for the chance to show off a three-pointed star at the least cost possible for a relatively modern lookng example? The difference in desire and sentiment will make the choice if the car is right or not.
Also, if there is a good independent MB shop around, it can help a LOT.
JMH
He's buying it because he likes the design and misses a Benz. He's not trying to show off or anything. I just happened to stumble upon this wagon and he's seriously considering it.
JHZR2
Staff member
If he misses an MB, and likes the design, then it is what it is, and he should simply take those issues in stride. Not that such an attitude excuses them, but what matters is if the driving and ownership experience of an MB vehicle outweighs some potential dollars laid out to repair weak items.
In reality it is the same with any used car, or any older car - some sort of expensive repair is bound to come and show up. Its all in the value and experience of owning the vehicle that decides if it is worth it. If what the car is, is a totally rust free, clean, nice example, which has all systems operating well, then the ownership of a well designed superb vehicle shoul make the expenditures (if they ever do come) worthwhile.
I only asked the other questions because Ive seen many a nice MB trashed because people buy them for the sake of owning an MB, but then expect them to run and cost the same as a late model Honda, and when they dont, treat them as such, and ruin them. Not saying that your father would do this, I just have seen so-called poor ownership experiences were nice cars have been ruined because expectations didnt meet reality - not an issue here...
Good luck,
JMH
In reality it is the same with any used car, or any older car - some sort of expensive repair is bound to come and show up. Its all in the value and experience of owning the vehicle that decides if it is worth it. If what the car is, is a totally rust free, clean, nice example, which has all systems operating well, then the ownership of a well designed superb vehicle shoul make the expenditures (if they ever do come) worthwhile.
I only asked the other questions because Ive seen many a nice MB trashed because people buy them for the sake of owning an MB, but then expect them to run and cost the same as a late model Honda, and when they dont, treat them as such, and ruin them. Not saying that your father would do this, I just have seen so-called poor ownership experiences were nice cars have been ruined because expectations didnt meet reality - not an issue here...
Good luck,
JMH
IMHO, having owned a decent number of each, an older Benz is no worse than an older Honda to have and to use.
Any older, higher mileage car, regardless of who made it, or where it was made, is going to need more frequent and costly TLC than will something new.
One advantage of a Mercedes is that any dealer can get (and may well stock) any part you might need, including trim items, and Mercedes dealer parts prices are either in line with, or lower than, those of Honda dealers.
I personally like old Benzes, and have had a few.
There were 124 diesels offered in the US, but they are not common. FWIW, I think the 123 is a better car in every way, if you can find a decent one.
Any older, higher mileage car, regardless of who made it, or where it was made, is going to need more frequent and costly TLC than will something new.
One advantage of a Mercedes is that any dealer can get (and may well stock) any part you might need, including trim items, and Mercedes dealer parts prices are either in line with, or lower than, those of Honda dealers.
I personally like old Benzes, and have had a few.
There were 124 diesels offered in the US, but they are not common. FWIW, I think the 123 is a better car in every way, if you can find a decent one.
JMH, that's understandable. He knows nothing is going to be like owning a new car but he doesn't get any pleasure from any new cars..... he rather drive the 95 Grand Cherokee I used to drive (that he FINALLY repaired completely), than the 2002 Toyota Avalon XLS. It's the sense of good old fashioned engineering that I guess he misses.
We used to have a W123 280E, gas engine. He spent $$$ on it but he got so much joy from the way it felt, drove and looked. He hasn't gotten that from the 2000 Windstar (surprised...lol), nor the 2004 Pacifica he owned.
We used to have a W123 280E, gas engine. He spent $$$ on it but he got so much joy from the way it felt, drove and looked. He hasn't gotten that from the 2000 Windstar (surprised...lol), nor the 2004 Pacifica he owned.
Except handling. From my limited experience the 124 handles significantly better and has a better road feel (subjective perhaps) than the 123. At this point I wouldn't buy either anymore but that is just my circumstances. Put aside my limitations I'd enjoy a 124 sedan in good shape.
Kestas
Staff member
I own a 95 E320. Let me verify a few issues.
These cars suffer from the brittle wiring insulation problem under the hood. The original engine wiring harness should be replaced - period. The car can be inspected for this problem by peeling back some of the wiring armor at an inconspicuous area under the hood. This problem doesn't hide itself very well. The replacement wiring costs around $900 plus labor.
The head gasket can easily fail long before the car is used up. The usual failure pattern is oil leakage at the rear passenger-side corner. The replacement head gasket is updated with strengthening at that location. This job costs around $2000, and is mostly labor.
Another weak point is the upper timing cover seal. This results in oil leakage at the front of the engine that isn't traceable because of the accessories on the engine.
I'm not sure when the evaporator was updated.
Spend some time on MercedesShop.com. Your question about buying a 94-95 E320 comes up quite often. Use their search feature.
These cars suffer from the brittle wiring insulation problem under the hood. The original engine wiring harness should be replaced - period. The car can be inspected for this problem by peeling back some of the wiring armor at an inconspicuous area under the hood. This problem doesn't hide itself very well. The replacement wiring costs around $900 plus labor.
The head gasket can easily fail long before the car is used up. The usual failure pattern is oil leakage at the rear passenger-side corner. The replacement head gasket is updated with strengthening at that location. This job costs around $2000, and is mostly labor.
Another weak point is the upper timing cover seal. This results in oil leakage at the front of the engine that isn't traceable because of the accessories on the engine.
I'm not sure when the evaporator was updated.
Spend some time on MercedesShop.com. Your question about buying a 94-95 E320 comes up quite often. Use their search feature.
JHZR2
Staff member
I'd agree that the 124 would have better handling than a w123, but then again, the w210 all in all isnt THAT different from a well set up w123, IMO. I wont be mistaking it for a BMW any time soon.
Much of the problem with the w123 is that most cars have very poor condition in their front ends, and so they are moire loose and floppy than intended. Couple that with a steering box that typically has an inch of play in it (very common for the w123), and what do you get? poor handling.
A w123 is the optimal vehicle because of ease of repair and mechanical design, but a w124 has the start of technology that isnt too complex... a nice rust free example is worth any repairs that may be required...
JMH
Much of the problem with the w123 is that most cars have very poor condition in their front ends, and so they are moire loose and floppy than intended. Couple that with a steering box that typically has an inch of play in it (very common for the w123), and what do you get? poor handling.
A w123 is the optimal vehicle because of ease of repair and mechanical design, but a w124 has the start of technology that isnt too complex... a nice rust free example is worth any repairs that may be required...
JMH
IMHO, the 123 front end actually seems to hold up pretty well. Part of the play is a function of the recirculating ball steering box, which is intended to reduce feedback from bumps in the road.
To me, the semi trailing arm rear suspension of the 123 is really optimal. These cars have a very gentle and trasparent oversteer mode, which helps the driver through corners, without him/her even knowing that they are tail-out.
Also, the 124 has nothing close to the 123's rough road absorbsion capability.
The 124, to me, is a trasitional model, with much old-school Benz goodness, but a hint of the newer, cheapened breed to come.
To me, the semi trailing arm rear suspension of the 123 is really optimal. These cars have a very gentle and trasparent oversteer mode, which helps the driver through corners, without him/her even knowing that they are tail-out.
Also, the 124 has nothing close to the 123's rough road absorbsion capability.
The 124, to me, is a trasitional model, with much old-school Benz goodness, but a hint of the newer, cheapened breed to come.
JHZR2
Staff member
It does hold up well, but most people nowadays driving a w123 are only getting a flavor of what daimler engineers wanted it to be, because of 20+ years and >200k worth of use on many of the parts.
A W123 with a fully refurbished suspension is a beautiful thing...
JMH
A W123 with a fully refurbished suspension is a beautiful thing...
JMH
You are right, of course.
I sold my last 123 about a decade ago, a 240D with about 210K. Other than the fact that the engine could never generate enough thrust to really test the suspension, I really enjoyed the car.
Unfortunantely, they are all very old iron now.
Still, from a classic old ride or special interest car point of view, you could do a lot worse then a 123. At least you can easily source all of the parts, and you are starting with a very sound piece, which cannot be said of many high-dollar so-called "muscle" (ie-slower than a V-6 Honda) cars.
I sold my last 123 about a decade ago, a 240D with about 210K. Other than the fact that the engine could never generate enough thrust to really test the suspension, I really enjoyed the car.
Unfortunantely, they are all very old iron now.
Still, from a classic old ride or special interest car point of view, you could do a lot worse then a 123. At least you can easily source all of the parts, and you are starting with a very sound piece, which cannot be said of many high-dollar so-called "muscle" (ie-slower than a V-6 Honda) cars.
Our W123 had a refurbished suspension front and rear. It was a thing of beauty. Like gedcruise, the 280E doesn't have enough thrust to throw the rear end around... well at least from what I can remember. Now the E320 with 217hp, thats a possibility.
JHZR2
Staff member
interesting... Ive never driven a gasser MB... well one... a 1973 SL450, but just around the block, and it felt slow.
I would have thought that a 2.8L gasser w123 would have some pep...
So, did he make a decision????
JMH
I would have thought that a 2.8L gasser w123 would have some pep...
So, did he make a decision????
JMH
Still waiting for my dad to call me. He called the guy but I don't know when they actually scheduled a test drive as I am in LSU and dad is in Katy.
My dad passed on the Wagon. He is enjoying the 95 Grand Cherokee in its repaired state too much to consider buying another car.
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