Costco Fuel is "Top Tier" Licensed... Pleasantly Surprised

[y_p_w]

Originally Posted by turbowhistle
I am a member of Costco and have been for 30 plus years. Their gasoline and diesel fuels are blended with a detergent package that exceeds the standard requirements according to their website. The Costco I visit sells a lot of gasoline.

Their history was originally of simply buying fuel on the spot market, where they likely just paid for a generic additive meeting minimum requirements at the fuel terminal. Then they started rolling what they then called "Clean Power" using a custom system to add detergent at the time of delivery. I remember back then Costco's FAQ on this system said that they would consider Top Tier licensing at a later date. However, it was fairly obvious that their claimed 5x the EPA minimum would likely meet the Top Tier testing requirement. Once they rolled it out to all Costco gas stations it became "Kirkland Signature Gasoline" along with Top Tier certification. I'm pretty sure it was in the works for a while. Lubrizol (which makes the custom additive for Costco) probably had the test results all prepared and it was just waiting the system to be installed in all Costco stations.

However, in all of this, the big advantage Costco always had was massive turnover, so the fuel was always fresh. The average Costco gas station must get at least two deliveries a day. I'm not sure how they handle the additive mixing process while customers are actively pumping fuel. I've never seen them shut off the pumps while deliveries were happening.

However, I remember when Price Club and Costco were competitors, they merged to become PriceCostco, and then the dropping of all that to make it Costco again. Still - I thought they started building gas stations maybe a dozen years ago?

 

[bbhero]

Great post ypw...

You wanna take a guess where I always bought gas??

Amoco. At the local station in my area. I was happy to though. I knew where it was coming from

It was interesting when my step father told us about the deal on the Eastern shore... The refinery did try to make the Exxon gas close to their gas has they could. But they ultimate 93 was strictly only for Amoco stations.

I bet you are exactly right the additives are from an outside provider.

Interesting about Sunoco... That is interesting. I like Sunoco gas. In fact there is a rare and I mean really rare full service Sunoco station in town near me. Only one I know of within like 100 plus miles of me.

 

[y_p_w]

Originally Posted by bbhero
I bet you are exactly right the additives are from an outside provider.

Interesting about Sunoco... That is interesting. I like Sunoco gas. In fact there is a rare and I mean really rare full service Sunoco station in town near me. Only one I know of within like 100 plus miles of me.

I remember the Shell add for "nitrogen enriched" gasoline showing someone in a lab coat. I think at one time the ExxonMobil/Shell joint venture Infineum used to have a single detergent additive on the EPA list, but now it's gone.

https://www3.epa.gov/otaq/fuels1/ffars/web-detrg.htm

I'm pretty sure almost any EPA certified detergent can meet the Top Tier requirements if enough is used. It's not necessarily a measure of how good a detergent additive is, but how much is used.

Costco has their exclusive additive (Lubrizol 9888 and several variations on it) made for them. But there's nothing preventing any other fuel marketer than buying the same additive that a competitor uses.

 

[a2gtinut]

NJ Costco gets fuel from BP.

 

[y_p_w]

Originally Posted by a2gtinut
NJ Costco gets fuel from BP.

But where does BP get its fuel for distribution in New Jersey? BP has 3 US refineries and none anywhere near New Jersey.

All Costco really wants is base fuel and oxygenate, since they have their own additive system.

 

[badtlc]

Costco is beyond top tier. There isn't another brand with the same level of additives on 87 octane from what I can find. Some like Shell and BP will match the quality on premium, though.

 

[y_p_w]

Originally Posted by badtlc
Costco is beyond top tier. There isn't another brand with the same level of additives on 87 octane from what I can find. Some like Shell and BP will match the quality on premium, though.

Is there really anything that indicates that anyone uses less in regular than with premium? As far as I know, Chevron uses the same level at all grades, and they're often considered the gold standard. 76 has the claim that they go a little bit over the Top Tier requirement. Still - I'm not sure that saying that you're 2.5x or 3.5x times the EPA minimum requirement means meeting Top Tier testing requirements. It just doesn't work that way. It requires an actual test since there isn't necessarily a linear relationship between detergent level and cleanliness.

This is the way 76 states its claim:

I do remember reading about some tests where fuel was evaporated and the solids weighed. However, that would seem to be less than optimal means to test for detergent additives. It could be possible to have detergent additives that are volatile liquids. And some detergents are more effective per unit weight.

 

[badtlc]

Originally Posted by y_p_w

Is there really anything that indicates that anyone uses less in regular than with premium? As far as I know, Chevron uses the same level at all grades, and they're often considered the gold standard. 76 has the claim that they go a little bit over the Top Tier requirement. Still - I'm not sure that saying that you're 2.5x or 3.5x times the EPA minimum requirement means meeting Top Tier testing requirements. It just doesn't work that way. It requires an actual test since there isn't necessarily a linear relationship between detergent level and cleanliness.



First, you have to start with the additive levels by grade. Costco is 5x the EPA mandates "for all grades" where as 76/P66/Conoco are 3.3x.

Shell and BP advertise similar 5x additive levels but only in their premium. They are just standard top tier levels in their < 91 octane grades.

 

[badtlc]

Here is where BP specifically claims their premium has more additives than other grades:

https://www.mybpstation.com/faq

Amoco Ultimate with Invigorate® is not a typical premium fuel whose only difference is octane number. Even cars whose manufacturer recommends regular fuel may see a benefit from using Amoco Ultimate with Invigorate®. This is because it contains our highest level of Invigorate® additive-meaning it can help clean a dirty engine even faster than BP Regular or BP Silver.

 

[y_p_w]

Originally Posted by badtlc
Originally Posted by y_p_w

Is there really anything that indicates that anyone uses less in regular than with premium? As far as I know, Chevron uses the same level at all grades, and they're often considered the gold standard. 76 has the claim that they go a little bit over the Top Tier requirement. Still - I'm not sure that saying that you're 2.5x or 3.5x times the EPA minimum requirement means meeting Top Tier testing requirements. It just doesn't work that way. It requires an actual test since there isn't necessarily a linear relationship between detergent level and cleanliness.



First, you have to start with the additive levels by grade. Costco is 5x the EPA mandates "for all grades" where as 76/P66/Conoco are 3.3x.

Shell and BP advertise similar 5x additive levels but only in their premium. They are just standard top tier levels in their < 91 octane grades.


Perhaps BP, but I haven't seen anything that states that Shell currently treats their premium (V-Power) with more. That might have been the case over a decade ago. I found this article about Shell back from 2004 when they went Top Tier.

Quote
https://csnews.com/all-shell-gasolines-meet-top-tier-standard
Shell Regular and Plus gasolines, which meet the Top Tier standard, also contain more than two times the amount of cleaning agents required by the EPA. Shell V-Power has more than five times the minimum amount of cleaning agents required by government standards and twice the cleaning agents required by the Top Tier standard. While the Top Tier standard is designed to protect engines from the future build-up of carbon deposits, Shell V-Power is specifically formulated to actively clean consumers' engines as they drive, giving it the ability to clean up deposits that have already built up on intake valves and fuel injectors.


But I can't find anything now with their current marketing materials.

https://www.shell.us/motorist/shell-fuels/shell-nitrogen-enriched-gasolines.html

The real irony is that they talk about it being unique and patented. They even make it sound like their chemists developed it. However, I don't believe they have the in-house expertise to make anything like this any more. Not that there's anything wrong with Shell buying a custom additive from Afton or BASF, but they're trying to market it as something they developed in house.

 

[badtlc]

Shell clearly singles out their premium

https://www.shell.us/motorist/shell-fuels/shell-v-power-nitro-plus-premium-gasoline.html

https://www.shell.us/motorist/shell...er-nitro-plus-premium-gasoline-faqs.html


Quote
Shell V-Power NiTRO+ contains the highest concentration of the Shell Nitrogen Enriched Cleaning System and cleans up faster than Shell regular. In fact, Shell V-Power contains seven times the amount of cleaning agents required by federal standards. The Shell V-Power NiTRO+ formulation was engineered with triple-action protection for optimal engine performance, delivering unsurpassed protection against gunk, unbeatable protection against corrosion, and our best protection against wear.

 

[BMWTurboDzl]

Originally Posted by y_p_w

. I'm not sure how they handle the additive mixing process while customers are actively pumping fuel. I've never seen them shut off the pumps while deliveries were happening...



Additive is metered in at the pump. The equipment along with the tank itself (covered) can been viewed on site. IIRC it's approx 3' x 2' box.

 

[StevieC]

When I wrote to Petro Canada about ethanol etc. they also told me that their premium higher octane gasoline contains more additive than the lesser octanes so it looks like a lot of places are doing it.

 

[y_p_w]

Originally Posted by BMWTurboDzl
Additive is metered in at the pump. The equipment along with the tank itself (covered) can been viewed on site. IIRC it's approx 3' x 2' box.

I get that it's done on site. Also - when they had their presentation materials, they showed an additive tank that would be buried. It's my understanding that most are buried but a few are above ground. If the additive tank is buried, there's usually a purple cover over the additive delivery point.

But what I'm wondering is what happens as they accept a delivery while customers are pumping fuel. They're supposed to meter the additive first, then have the fuel delivered where it splash blends. It shouldn't be a problem if that tank is idle.

In a fuel terminal delivery it's pretty clear that the additive should be well mixed by the time the tanker gets to the gas station. Combining well mixed fuel with well mixed fuel shouldn't create a problem I'd think. But Costco is putting in the additive on site while people are pumping. I'd think it's not an issue if they're alternating fuel tanks and it's a more or less empty tank receiving the delivery and disconnected from the pumps. But could you see a problem if customers are pumping fuel coming from a tank, while concentrated additives are added to the same tank before the base fuel is delivered?

 

[a2gtinut]

Originally Posted by y_p_w
Originally Posted by a2gtinut
NJ Costco gets fuel from BP.

But where does BP get its fuel for distribution in New Jersey? BP has 3 US refineries and none anywhere near New Jersey.

All Costco really wants is base fuel and oxygenate, since they have their own additive system.

NJ has many BP stations

read this
https://www.bp.com/en_us/bp-us/where-we-operate/bp-new-jersey.html

 

[y_p_w]

Originally Posted by a2gtinut
Originally Posted by y_p_w
Originally Posted by a2gtinut
NJ Costco gets fuel from BP.

But where does BP get its fuel for distribution in New Jersey? BP has 3 US refineries and none anywhere near New Jersey.

All Costco really wants is base fuel and oxygenate, since they have their own additive system.

NJ has many BP stations

read this
https://www.bp.com/en_us/bp-us/where-we-operate/bp-new-jersey.html

I understand that. I also haven't seen a BP around here in almost 20 years. Really odd too since I had a BP credit card back then and it got frustrating because I couldn't use my credits any more. Before I cancelled it the last time I got my credit in the form of a $20 BP gasoline purchase card which I sent to a relative in Southern California where they still had BP stations. BP's only presence in my area was ARCO.

But what I'm saying is that BP is unlikely to actually make the fuel that's distributed in New Jersey because their refineries are too far away. They probably go to a pipeline company and contract with them to "deliver" X amount of fungible fuel. My analogy is that it's like a large national bank where they can deposit a certain amount from their refinery and arrange to withdraw the same amount from remote fuel terminals. Perhaps Costco is one of their customers for that fuel, but Costco's model is to only accept base fuel and oxygenate at the terminal, then add their custom additive upon delivery. The additive they use is their own custom one from Lubrizol (Lubrizol 9888) and not what BP's branded additive is. All Costco is guaranteed (even when they have a contract with BP) is industry standard 87 regular or 91/92 premium where Costco will use its own additive.

I remember when there was the talk about boycotting BP over the Deepwater Horizon spill, I was thinking of the utter pointlessness of it given how they would have been able to easily sell their fuel on the spot market. It would have hit their franchisees badly though, but it wouldn't have affected how much oil they refined and the amount of fuel they distributed.

 

[Imp4]

Originally Posted by y_p_w
But what I'm saying is that BP is unlikely to actually make the fuel that's distributed in New Jersey because their refineries are too far away. They probably go to a pipeline company and contract with them to "deliver" X amount of fungible fuel. My analogy is that it's like a large national bank where they can deposit a certain amount from their refinery and arrange to withdraw the same amount from remote fuel terminals. Perhaps Costco is one of their customers for that fuel, but Costco's model is to only accept base fuel and oxygenate at the terminal, then add their custom additive upon delivery. The additive they use is their own custom one from Lubrizol (Lubrizol 9888) and not what BP's branded additive is. All Costco is guaranteed (even when they have a contract with BP) is industry standard 87 regular or 91/92 premium where Costco will use its own additive.


This is completely correct. All pipeline gasoline is fungible.
All gasoline companies share the same pipelines. That way when BP or Exxon etc put gas into the pipeline in Texas, they don't need to wait for it to arrive in New Jersey before they take the same amount out of the pipeline. That would be a huge inefficiency in the system and would result in higher prices for you and me.
The system works by sharing and credit for volume added. That way BP doesn't have to have a refinery within delivery distance of every station. And the system works amazingly well.
So well in fact that most consumers never give it a first thought nevermind a second thought.

Here's an interesting write-up that has been posted to BITOG in the past but is worth revisiting.

How gasoline gets to your car.

 

[y_p_w]

Originally Posted by Imp4
This is completely correct. All pipeline gasoline is fungible.
All gasoline companies share the same pipelines. That way when BP or Exxon etc put gas into the pipeline in Texas, they don't need to wait for it to arrive in New Jersey before they take the same amount out of the pipeline. That would be a huge inefficiency in the system and would result in higher prices for you and me.
The system works by sharing and credit for volume added. That way BP doesn't have to have a refinery within delivery distance of every station. And the system works amazingly well.
So well in fact that most consumers never give it a first thought nevermind a second thought.
Well - I think there are a lot of misconceptions about what fuel is or isn't. I remember hearing Valero ads from back in the day when Valero actually operated a retail fuel brand. Their slogan was "gas with vroom" whatever that meant. One commercial emphasized that Valero was the largest refiner in the United States. A lot of people associate a fuel with a particular company they believe will explore, refine, develop additives, and sell retail fuel in a vertically integrated environment. But in reality they might do some or none of those. Valero sold off its retail operations to some Canadian convenience store chain. ConocoPhillips divested its refining and retail operations (now Phillips 66) and is solely an oil/natural gas exploration and drilling company. Unocal sold off 76 two decades ago to Tosco and only kept the natural gas exploration business, which eventually got bought out by Chevron.

But in the end, none of this really matters. Fuel is fuel. In the United States there are dozens of refiners that can make the fuel to industry standards. The pipeline companies aren't just transporters, but brokers. And it really doesn't make sense for BP to segregate a shipment of fuel from their refinery in Indiana to New Jersey. I looked at the maps of Colonial, Kinder Morgan, and Plains All American and I can't really see a way to transport it directly unless it's placed in a tanker ship and sent out the Saint Lawrence River. Just a guess, but the fuel could be brokered, or if BP is supplying their branded gas stations they might even be buying it on the spot market for delivery on the East Coast.

I suppose what many people assume is that if they're selling a standard, interchangeable product there might be an incentive to cheat and provide a product that's somehow cheaper to make or cuts corners. However, I know in my state the California Air Resources Board can inspect base fuels unannounced at any point in the cycle, including refinery output, fuel terminal output, and at gas stations. Heck - I believe they could even track down a tanker truck, ask to see the bill of lading, and take a sample. Want to cheat? How much of a fine are you willing to risk to not make fuel to required standards and/or labeled octane rating? They have a mobile lab and I believe it includes an octane rating test setup.

 

[TiGeo]

Love me some Costco Top Tier premium...$2.20/gal...my car is tuned and requires premium now so this was a pleasant surprise.

 

[turbowhistle]

Originally Posted by BMWTurboDzl
Originally Posted by y_p_w

. I'm not sure how they handle the additive mixing process while customers are actively pumping fuel. I've never seen them shut off the pumps while deliveries were happening...



Additive is metered in at the pump. The equipment along with the tank itself (covered) can been viewed on site. IIRC it's approx 3' x 2' box.



Sorry, Not my quote!!