Cosby Allegations

[greenjp]

I am amazed at the number of people here who not only don't believe it's likely Cosby did anything wrong but who also state it so confidently with some seriously back-asswards, misogynistic, and ignorant worldviews.

To address one of the completely stupid things that have been said in this thread - if you think the fact that he would have had easy access to willing partners back in the day is proof he wouldn't have drugged and raped young women you are completely ignorant of the actual nature of these things. Ignorance calls for education.

There are now dozens of accusers spanning decades, Cosby has paid at least one settlement already, there's a consistent demographic among the accusers, and a consistent alleged behavior. I'm inclined to believe it.

 

[greenjp]

Here's another attention grabbing money grubber with an axe to grind:
http://www.nydailynews.com/entertainment...ticle-1.2020464

 

[uc50ic4more]

Originally Posted By: greenjp
I am amazed at the number of people here who not only don't believe it's likely Cosby did anything wrong but who also state it so confidently with some seriously back-asswards, misogynistic, and ignorant worldviews.


A whole lot of people seem to have convinced themselves that - despite having little or no direct experience with any given issue - they really know what's going on. They then very conspicuously seem to try to convince everyone else that they really know what's going on. Quantifying the world into "facts" maybe makes them feel more secure in it (?) and posturing (while also confusing) their hastily-formed opinions as fact makes them feel superior? Maybe I'll go ponder this some more over a Puddin' Pop (tm).

 

[PandaBear]

Originally Posted By: benjamming
PandaBear,

That's a very interesting (i.e. scary) way of finding someone guilty. Not responding the way you would advise someone in no way represents evidence of any sort. Wow.

Logic, I barely knew thee...


I'm not saying he is guilty, but I think I'm 80/20 divided on my opinion on what happened.

p.s. a lot of people go away from justice because they have good lawyers, and a lot of people end up guilty because they have [censored] lawyers.

Originally Posted By: Rolla07
I think these women should of said something earlier..now it looks like a cash grab..just bothers me that its all of a sudden..unless it happened recently or these women complained in the past..i say invalidate the claims..not saying they didnt happen or that it was right if he did do those things


Yes they could, but like the priest molestation cases we've seen in the past, it is sometimes impossible to accuse those in power or influence until they fell, or have enough momentum (many other accusations).

 

[NHHEMI]

The attitude of some in here, so willing to believe accusations with no proof of any kind to substantiate them, is why celebrity shake downs and even false accusations for divorce/custody leverage and the like happen and happen a lot! It is why accused celebrities and rich people will pay off the accuser to make it go away vs. fighting it in court which is a [censored] shoot. Just say the word "rape" and people instantly want to believe it.

People accused of sexual crimes are guilty until proven innocent in this country unfortunately not the other way around. Actually, even if proven innocent to many they remain guilty because to be accused of such a thing MUST mean it is true. It is really a shame that people think that way. Accusation does NOT equal guilt folks! Please be smarter than that and actually require some proof to make your decision. A large group of people accusing someone does not mean it is true. Look for the proof before deciding.

Again, I don't know what happened in this situation with Cosby and these women. I wasn't there so how could I or anyone but those involved? I do know there is absolutely no evidence of any kind that Cosby did anything wrong. No physical evidence( DNA ), no witnesses( just accusers ), no videos, no police reports, no NOTHING! How am I to form an opinion let alone form an opinion he did it with nothing to back up their claims? I hold myself to a higher standard than that and would hope others would as well.

All I DO know about it is we have a group of women being represented by a known feminist, man hating, vicious lawyer not known for her "ethics" who wants Cosby to put up $100 MILLION dollars to settle this( gee what is her % of that ). The accusations that he committed sexual assaults/rape are said to have happened decades ago so the statue of limitations have run out and even if we had witnesses or physical evidence it would be useless. Women are coming out of the woodwork to join in the claims against Cosby as well. When do we say ok, now, at this point clearly you are just trying to get in on the cash haul here?

I just can't get past how long ago the alleged acts occurred because, if he truly did this to that many women, IMO at last one of them would have filed charges. Not a single one of these women did so nor did we hear a peep about any such acts. Now that the feminazi Allred is the lawyer, and she has thrown $100 MILLION out there, they are showing up in droves to accuse him. To me that is just too much like a shake down.

On the surface it looks like a money grab and my gut tell me that is what it is based on what I know of it. It is possible something may have happened with at least one of these women but I will not say rape without proof. Could just as likely be next morning regret or something like that. But lets at least say something sexual happened with at least one( I do not believe something happened with ALL of these women - at least some/most are in it for the $$$ IMO ). If what happened to that one was in fact rape all these others trying to grab their share of the cash will ruin things for that one.

Allred is NOT the lawyer that should have been chosen if this really happened either. That is like having Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson speak for you if you are Black and have a legal issue. Just not the person to hire if you are legit and want to be taken that way. Allred is the one you hire when you want to shake down a male celebrity like Cosby. JMHO.

Oh, and to those saying you know someone who was raped so it makes you believe this more that is why during jury questioning these things are asked. You are clearly biased or at the least would give the benefit of the doubt to the accuser and that is not how it should be.

 

[NHHEMI]

Originally Posted By: PandaBear

Yes they could, but like the priest molestation cases we've seen in the past, it is sometimes impossible to accuse those in power or influence until they fell, or have enough momentum (many other accusations).


A lot of that is false accusation to cash in as well. I am NOT saying it hasn't happened because it has, and has been proved legit, but come on now. Anyone with 1/2 a brain knows a lot of those claims were for the $$$.

Real victims should be furious with the ones who are just in it to try and grab some money. It makes it harder to believe the real folks because you don't know who is telling the truth and who is a greedy scum bag that would send someone to jail for a vile crime they didn't do.

 

[MCompact]

Yet another "rape" fiasco...

 

[jimbrewer]

Nah. The allegations are substantiated. Look at Andrea Constad's lawsuit. She settled and there's a confidentiality agreement in place, but it's plain enough from the circumstances that it wasn't a token settlment. Before it settled her lawyers had a dozen other victims lined up. She and they were too classy to make a lot of noise about it at the time, (before it settled with a confidentiality agreement) which is one reason why it was kind of forgotten about for so many years. To those who say "Why didn't any of these women step forward earlier?" The fact is Constad did, and she won.

Most recently, when Cosby's lawyer was blasting his accusers as attention-seeking prostitutes in so many words, on almost a daily basis after a few days of this he said in a very measured way, in effect, "Of course, this doesn't include Andrea Constad---with whom Mr. Cosby settled his differences long ago."

I interpret that to be that Constad's lawyers were smart and made the anti-disparagement provisions in their settlment mutual. So when Cosby's lawyer made a few of these sweeping statements they contacted him and reminded him that this was in violation of their agreement not to blast Ms. Constad, hence, the oddly hedged denial.

For legalistic purposes Cosby has deniability. For real life, no.

 

[Shannow]

Originally Posted By: NHHEMI
Oh, and to those saying you know someone who was raped so it makes you believe this more that is why during jury questioning these things are asked. You are clearly biased or at the least would give the benefit of the doubt to the accuser and that is not how it should be.


I know that you weren't talking to me, as stated I still give him the benefit of doubt, I was offering reasons as to why women leave this stuff so long, as they are often talked out of it by the Police even if they DO initially go to them...as per the couple of high profile Aussie ones, I gave them benefit of doubt too...until the level of depravity that they had sunk to came out.

The people that I worry about are the ones who automatically see it as a money grab...must be representative of their general attitude ad motivations in life to automatically and so easily project that view onto others' behaviours.

 

[aa1986]

Originally Posted By: Shannow
The people that I worry about are the ones who automatically see it as a money grab...must be representative of their general attitude ad motivations in life to automatically and so easily project that view onto others' behaviours.


You have a point. But then again, this is a country that almost worships money.

 

[L_Sludger]

This guy's turned out to be quite a monster. He's probably got friends in Cleveland.

 

[GreeCguy]

Originally Posted By: Shannow
Originally Posted By: NHHEMI
Oh, and to those saying you know someone who was raped so it makes you believe this more that is why during jury questioning these things are asked. You are clearly biased or at the least would give the benefit of the doubt to the accuser and that is not how it should be.


I know that you weren't talking to me, as stated I still give him the benefit of doubt, I was offering reasons as to why women leave this stuff so long, as they are often talked out of it by the Police even if they DO initially go to them...as per the couple of high profile Aussie ones, I gave them benefit of doubt too...until the level of depravity that they had sunk to came out.

The people that I worry about are the ones who automatically see it as a money grab...must be representative of their general attitude ad motivations in life to automatically and so easily project that view onto others' behaviours.


Ditto. I have made no decision toward Cosby's guilt or innocence.

I shared what I knew in an effort to help others understand the situation many victims of rape find themselves in, especially years ago.

The great irony here is that what is happening now to the alleged victims is the very thing they feared years ago. The difference now is that they have found their voice and the courage to share what they say happened.

Is it possible they have fabricated these stories for money and 15 minutes of fame? Yes it's possible.

Is it possible that a famous and powerful Hollywood Star has been targeted for blackmail? Yes, it's possible, (consider Rosco "Fatty" Arbuckle).

Is it possible that a famous and powerful Hollywood Star did these things with a feeling of entitlement and the opinion he could "get away with it" because of his fame and power? Yes, it's possible.

 

[NHHEMI]

Originally Posted By: Shannow
Originally Posted By: NHHEMI
Oh, and to those saying you know someone who was raped so it makes you believe this more that is why during jury questioning these things are asked. You are clearly biased or at the least would give the benefit of the doubt to the accuser and that is not how it should be.


I know that you weren't talking to me, as stated I still give him the benefit of doubt, I was offering reasons as to why women leave this stuff so long, as they are often talked out of it by the Police even if they DO initially go to them...as per the couple of high profile Aussie ones, I gave them benefit of doubt too...until the level of depravity that they had sunk to came out.

The people that I worry about are the ones who automatically see it as a money grab...must be representative of their general attitude ad motivations in life to automatically and so easily project that view onto others' behaviours.


Actually, I have had 3 instances in my life where I legitimately could have sued and/or pressed charges against someone and I did not do so. One I will not discuss but the other 2 were medical malpractice that contributed to the death of my 89 year old Dad this past June and years ago when I was shot by someone who was momentarily careless with a gun.

I dealt with the hospital administrator directly to make sure what happened to my Dad never happens again and I made the person who shot me cover all medical bills. I easily could have sued for a lot of money( especially the Hospital )in both cases and in the case of being shot had the person arrested( Police wanted to but I refused ). Neither thing was done deliberate so punishing people for it made no sense. Money doesn't bring my Dad back nor does it get me unshot( is that a word? ).

Money grabbers and sue happy folks make me sick. I have seen through personal experience( friend )and what you see in the media of countless examples of money shakedowns. What is going on with Cosby at this time looks like a money shakedown for the most part. As I said, one or more may be legit but with the lawyer hired and so many coming out after that $100 MILLION was mentioned how do you tell?

 

[NHHEMI]

Originally Posted By: jimbrewer
Nah. The allegations are substantiated. Look at Andrea Constad's lawsuit. She settled and there's a confidentiality agreement in place, but it's plain enough from the circumstances that it wasn't a token settlment. Before it settled her lawyers had a dozen other victims lined up. She and they were too classy to make a lot of noise about it at the time, (before it settled with a confidentiality agreement) which is one reason why it was kind of forgotten about for so many years. To those who say "Why didn't any of these women step forward earlier?" The fact is Constad did, and she won.

Most recently, when Cosby's lawyer was blasting his accusers as attention-seeking prostitutes in so many words, on almost a daily basis after a few days of this he said in a very measured way, in effect, "Of course, this doesn't include Andrea Constad---with whom Mr. Cosby settled his differences long ago."

I interpret that to be that Constad's lawyers were smart and made the anti-disparagement provisions in their settlment mutual. So when Cosby's lawyer made a few of these sweeping statements they contacted him and reminded him that this was in violation of their agreement not to blast Ms. Constad, hence, the oddly hedged denial.

For legalistic purposes Cosby has deniability. For real life, no.


So let me get this straight. One case where it was settled means he did it and all these new claims are now substantiated. Cosby's lawyer having to be careful about what he says on a settled case with a "Confidentiality Agreement", that prohibits you from talking about it in any shape or form, is also some kind of sign he is guilty. WOW! Glad you aren't a judge or on a jury.

If you have enough money to buy someone off who is shaking you down you do it. That is by no means an admission of guilt. With the way people so readily believe any claims of sexual assault you jump at the chance to make it go away if you can so you aren't sent to jail for something you didn't do. Obviously if you did it you jump at it as well but my point is simply that a settlement does not equate to guilt and especially so when it has a CA keeping the details under wraps. Not to me it doesn't anyway although it appears to with you even when you do not know the details involved. Just that Cosby settled to avoid trouble. He must be guilty.

Now, I am not saying anything about what happened one way or the other in the case you named. I am simply saying a one time settlement with a confidentiality agreement means nothing. If I can not find out what the details are due to the CA it keeps me from having a firm opinion specific to that case as to quilt or innocence. I need to see evidence and such. The CA in and of itself is not a sign of guilt. You could even look at it like this. If it is a money shakedown the money grabber would most certainly choose to take the cash and sign the CA no questions asked. That lets them get the cash they want and not have to testify in court and risk being exposed. The whole point is to get cash so if they get it the terms are irrelevant really. A CA means squat to me unless I know what really happened.

I will also say I have to question any real victim taking money to settle a rape/sexual assault/molestation accusation. I can not see anyone taking money to settle that. If a person really did those horrible things to me or my kids the only way I take any money( I wouldn't because money doesn't make it go away )is in a civil suit after the criminal case is over and the offender is in jail( hopefully ). To take money and be quiet and not press charges is wrong. Sorry but IMO it is.

Sorry but you and I couldn't disagree on this more. I respect your right to feel as you do but again I am glad you are not in a position to impact a case.

 

[NHHEMI]

Originally Posted By: GreeCguy


Ditto. I have made no decision toward Cosby's guilt or innocence.

I shared what I knew in an effort to help others understand the situation many victims of rape find themselves in, especially years ago.

The great irony here is that what is happening now to the alleged victims is the very thing they feared years ago. The difference now is that they have found their voice and the courage to share what they say happened.

Is it possible they have fabricated these stories for money and 15 minutes of fame? Yes it's possible.

Is it possible that a famous and powerful Hollywood Star has been targeted for blackmail? Yes, it's possible, (consider Rosco "Fatty" Arbuckle).

Is it possible that a famous and powerful Hollywood Star did these things with a feeling of entitlement and the opinion he could "get away with it" because of his fame and power? Yes, it's possible.


To me the bold statement above shows where you really fall on the subject. While I think you attempted to write that neutral it is not and to me shows a bias in favor of the accusers.

As to your 3 scenarios I agree all 3 are possible and have said so from the get go( I am just vocal about innocent until proven guilty and that proof has to be real ). However, without any tangible proof he did anything you have to err on the side of caution. In our country you are innocent until proven guilty. That is all I ask of folks. If we have no proof he did anything how can anyone think he did?

The are internet "news sites" now accusing Cosby of molesting Raven Symone(sp? )when she was on his show which she has vehemently denied. It is disgusting what is going on. Only going to get worse with Allred and her $100 MILLION. And people wonder why you would settle if innocent to make it go away.

 

[Pop_Rivit]

I couldn't care less what happens with a bunch of celebrities, no matter who they are.

 

[GreeCguy]

Originally Posted By: NHHEMI
Originally Posted By: GreeCguy


Ditto. I have made no decision toward Cosby's guilt or innocence.

I shared what I knew in an effort to help others understand the situation many victims of rape find themselves in, especially years ago.

The great irony here is that what is happening now to the alleged victims is the very thing they feared years ago. The difference now is that they have found their voice and the courage to share what they say happened.

Is it possible they have fabricated these stories for money and 15 minutes of fame? Yes it's possible.

Is it possible that a famous and powerful Hollywood Star has been targeted for blackmail? Yes, it's possible, (consider Rosco "Fatty" Arbuckle).

Is it possible that a famous and powerful Hollywood Star did these things with a feeling of entitlement and the opinion he could "get away with it" because of his fame and power? Yes, it's possible.


To me the bold statement above shows where you really fall on the subject. While I think you attempted to write that neutral it is not and to me shows a bias in favor of the accusers.

As to your 3 scenarios I agree all 3 are possible and have said so from the get go( I am just vocal about innocent until proven guilty and that proof has to be real ). However, without any tangible proof he did anything you have to err on the side of caution. In our country you are innocent until proven guilty. That is all I ask of folks. If we have no proof he did anything how can anyone think he did?

The are internet "news sites" now accusing Cosby of molesting Raven Symone(sp? )when she was on his show which she has vehemently denied. It is disgusting what is going on. Only going to get worse with Allred and her $100 MILLION. And people wonder why you would settle if innocent to make it go away.


Please note, I used the word "alleged."

Like you, I am very cautious to make judgements and having seen the "witch" trials of others, am very hesitant to land on either side until the facts are in, (if in fact, they ever come in). The only reason I wrote what I did was perhaps a feeble effort to explain to those who are so quick to dismiss the accusers why perhaps, it took them so long to come forward. If in fact, what they say actually did happen, what is happening now in terms of name calling, character doubting and outright denial is the very reason some, perhaps all, remained silent for so long. If it did not happen and Cosby is the innocent victim of a "shake down," then these so called "accusers" will bear the brunt and reap the rewards of their lies both in this world and the next.

I say once again, could they be lying? Yes, it's possible. But could it also be possible they are telling the truth? Yes, it's possible.

I feel like Henry Fonda in "12 Angry Men."

 

[Win]

I doubt they're all lying. Some probably are.

It's a common crime, but not often pursued because of the ordeal to the alleged victim who is invariably placed on trial, to the extent they can be, in the process.

Mr. Cosby doesn't have to sit back and take this. He can always pursue defamation charges against his accuser(s). He's obviously suffered a lot of economic damage from the allegations.

Truth, of course, would be a defense.

 

[jimbrewer]

That's interesting. If a woman isn't willing to prove rape in a court of law, then her allegations must be dismissed. Any woman who would sue in a court of law for money damages for rape is an immoral moneygrubber.

Unsubstantiated lawsuits being settled by celebrities for the long bucks is TV stuff not real life. If he paid her it's because he had to. If he agreed in writing that he could not publicly dispute her allegations it's because he had to.

 

[doitmyself]

Originally Posted By: jimbrewer
Unsubstantiated lawsuits being settled by celebrities for the long bucks is TV stuff not real life. If he paid her it's because he had to. If he agreed in writing that he could not publicly dispute her allegations it's because he had to.

Jimbrewer, I note from your posts that you have never dealt with a serious judicial issue, correct?? Replace your words "had to" with "chose to", then you would be closer to reality. This type of stuff happens to common folks also, in the form of plea bargains. Innocent people choose a plea bargain because they are broke and/or broken down to be unable to fight anymore. Many people choose a plea bargain charge without admission to guilt in order to end the ordeal. Believe it. Innocent people fighting to the bitter end to prove their innocence is the thing of television shows.

It happened to me. I was ticketed for speeding in a construction zone. I had picture proof that the signs were misplaced. I filed a "guilty with explanation". When I arrived at the counter, a D.A. overheard my story to the receptionist. The D.A. asked if I had any other tickets (no). She said " I'll change the charge to defective equipment, $80 dollar fine, no points on my record. She confided that I probably would not win my case. I took the plea bargain. Spineless??? Maybe, until you know how the judicial system works. If this happens at this level, imagine what happens in high profile cases.