Corolla 4AFE 263,000 miles - flush or not?

[fat biker]

Greetings All,

Boy, is the competition fierce at the bottom end of the automotive food chain!

We recently purchased a 1992 Toyota Corolla with 263,000 miles.

I plan to switch the car to Red Line 5w30 with Wix oil filter soon - per "Dave" at Red Line's suggestion.

I was thinking about flushing the engine oil to discover if it had much sludge. The other day while inspecting the timing belt, I had the cam/valve cover off and all looked good. Light gold color, no black or brown. If I found dark coloring under the cover I would go ahead with the flush (Lubro Moly), now it would seem that a flush is not needed.

So, what say you all?

Thanks,
fat biker

 

[drewjp]

If you didn't see any sludge, don't bother with the flush. Plus, Red Line has enough detergents to get your engine nice and clean with a few oil changes.

Also, the Wix filters are some of the best...don't hesitate to use 'em!

 

[benjamming]

I would recommend an AMSOIL engine flush & change the oil. Follow with Auto-RX treatment. 1 or 2 bottle will depend upon the car and can be determined further along. Pablo can help you with the engine flush. Frank can help you with the ARX. Save the Redline for after the cleanup. No reason to go expensive during these phases. This should be under $1 or $2 per quart oil (no reason to spend any more than that). This will help to provide a more optimum environment for the RL and not tax the oil unnecessarily.

Do you already have the Lubro Moly on hand?

 

[Pat in Speedway]

Keep an eye on your oil level. The 4AFE is known to consume. 1qt every 1,000 miles isn't uncommon. Valvoline MaxLife full syn 5w30 has really cut down the consumption on my stepdaughter's '95 Prizm with the same 4AFE. $3 on a new PCV valve would be good insurance regardless of what oil you use. The ML didn't take long to start "cleaning" either. After 2K miles on this OCI, it's darkened quite a bit. I had it at Firestone last week for a couple of new tires & they suggested an oil change, as the "oil is dirty".

Stick to tires, boys!

 

[hominid7]

Call me old fashioned, but i would tend to think that changing the oil to regular dino oil and giving it 1000 miles to see what (if any) problems the engine may currently have with leaks, etc might be worth while. The condition of the oil at 1000 miles will help to tell you what condition the inside of the engine is in.

 

[benjamming]

hominid7,

I assumed that all leaks, etc were taken care of since the OP wants to go to RL. However, you raise a good & valid point. Of course, the color of the oil won't tell you anthing valuable about the internal engine condition. A UOA could though.

Pat in Speedway,

What is the root cause of the oil consumption?

 

[fat biker]

I probably should have provided a bit more information.

I changed the oil first thing to Chevron 10w40 (Costco) and tossed the filter, which was loose as could be.

Leaks? I saw evidence of some leaks and will remove the lower "splash covers" to get a better look for leaks. Also I will be cleaning the engine and comparment as they are quite dirty. So, for now the leaks are still unknown.

The Red Line is not scheduled for a bit yet as there are other maintenance items that are needed and cash is tight for the short term.

Our previous Corolla did not consume much oil and I was not aware that they were "users".

I will likely do a UOA on the proposed Red Line in the future.

Thanks to all for your comments.

fat biker

 

[Pat in Speedway]

Originally Posted By: benjamming

Pat in Speedway,

What is the root cause of the oil consumption?


No clue...She bought it in June of '06 and the dealer we bought it from had a fresh batch of Valvoline 10w-40 in it. It had 160k miles when we got it. She had the oil changed when she was in CT last year visiting her father and the lube place put in Mobil Clean HM 10w30 (dino). I had to add about a quart every 1K and thought something was up, until I looked through the BITOG archives and various other forums where my conclusion was this engine is prone to consumption. On average it was a quart every 1-1.5K miles. In October I gave it a tune-up, PCV valve, filters, and put in the ML 5w30 syn. She's over 2k on the change and it's down barely 1/2 quart. Not sure what the root cause was, but something reduced it dramatically. The synthetic? The ML? I have a hunch it was the PCV valve, but I've got nothing to base it on. I'm thinking of trying a different oil for the Spring change to see how it reacts.

 

[paul246]

From what you have described I wouldn't worry about a flush. The Redline will clean anything that may be there.

I switched over my 1973 Honda CL350 motorcycle to Redline a few years ago. That engine didn't have an oil filter per se, but relied on a centrifigual device to force out dirt from the main oil supply. There wasn't any real sludge present but there was a fair bit of black "mud" for a better description sitting in the recesses of the engine. The Redline cleaned all of it out in no time. Your Corolla won't have that condition, so don't sweat it.

Don't be surprised if you develop a leak, but again, there is a good chance you won't since the gaskets on your engine are not exactly ancient as were the gaskets on my motorcycle.

 

[fat biker]

Oooppss,
Don't I look silly!
Actual mileage is 163,000 NOT 263,000

fat biker

 

[javacontour]

Funny thing, no one really thought 263K was out of whack for one of these.

Mine is close to 220K (in a '94 Geo Prizm) and it uses a quart about every 2500 miles. I don't know how much is from wear, and how much from runs to 5-6K RPMs daily

It's not a pretty sounding engine at high RPMs BTW, not like my SVT Contour was. Anyway, if it looks good, don't mess with it.

Just check the oil, as it has a 3L sump (about 3.2 quarts) so it doesn't take long to empty the sump if it's consuming and not being monitored.

 

[fat biker]

Thanks for the tip to keep a sharp eye on the oil level with a 3.x quart capacity. I always do.

fat biker

 

[Pat in Speedway]

Originally Posted By: javacontour
Funny thing, no one really thought 263K was out of whack for one of these.

Mine is close to 220K (in a '94 Geo Prizm) and it uses a quart about every 2500 miles. I don't know how much is from wear, and how much from runs to 5-6K RPMs daily

It's not a pretty sounding engine at high RPMs BTW, not like my SVT Contour was. Anyway, if it looks good, don't mess with it.

Just check the oil, as it has a 3L sump (about 3.2 quarts) so it doesn't take long to empty the sump if it's consuming and not being monitored.


What oil are you running in it?

 

[hominid7]

Ahhhh, well 163,000 is just getting broken in!

I'd feel a lot better about giving redline a try @ 163 than @ 263.

 

[javacontour]

Up until about a year or so ago, I ran Mobil 1 6 months or 10K miles. It didn't really make sense to basically replace the oil during the OCI and then some, so I returned to a conventional oil for 4 month or 5K intervals. So I added 1/2 quarts of make-up oil as needed until 5K miles, and then I'd change it with it being 1/2 quart low.

I just can't bring myself to let it go below 1/2 quart below full knowing the sump is only 3.2L.

I've been using Havoline that I picked up at Advanced Auto's closeout. I have 5W30 in there now, and this summer will use one of my remaining 10W30 gallon jugs.

I don't baby the car. It regularly sees 75+ MPH on the highway, so those 3K RPM cruises probably help with the consumption.

Pretty soon this car will be pressed into new teen driver service, in the next 18 months or so, probably around 240-250K depending on when he gets his license.

Originally Posted By: Pat in Speedway
Originally Posted By: javacontour
Funny thing, no one really thought 263K was out of whack for one of these.

Mine is close to 220K (in a '94 Geo Prizm) and it uses a quart about every 2500 miles. I don't know how much is from wear, and how much from runs to 5-6K RPMs daily

It's not a pretty sounding engine at high RPMs BTW, not like my SVT Contour was. Anyway, if it looks good, don't mess with it.

Just check the oil, as it has a 3L sump (about 3.2 quarts) so it doesn't take long to empty the sump if it's consuming and not being monitored.


What oil are you running in it?

 

[55Test]

Well, I had an 88 Corolla wagon with the 4AF (carbed) with 237000 miles on it. Engine ran like a top, got excellent fuel mileage and didn't burn any oil but seemed to leak a very small amount. I never had the valvecover off of it, but shining a flashlight down the oil fill hole (which didn't reveal much) showed a medium brown color. I assume that was just normal varnish and such. I ran 5w30 in it. If I had a chance to get another Corolla wagon I sure as [censored] would do it.

 

[Drew99GT]

I have a 94 Corolla with the 7AFE, and it's a consumer, about a quart every 1,500 to 2,000 miles. However, Maxlife 10w30 has curred it; hardly any consumption now.

If you want to spend 6 bucks a quart on a $1,000 car, be my guest! But I'll bet ya dollars to donuts you'll get equal results with a HM oil like Maxlife, or heck, on any conventional oil.

As far as leaks, when you take the oil filter off, and especially if it was loose, oil drains down the side of the block and over time it builds up a nice layer of grime. I bet that's where the supposed leak is from. Or, when you put the valve cover back on, it's very important to use a dab of RTV where the distributor goes through the cylinder head (where the mating surface goes from flat to vertical on each side), same thing where the cam gear goes through, and also at the cam plug. If not, she'll leak like a WWII bomber at those spots over time.

 

[fat biker]

Originally Posted By: Drew99GT
If you want to spend 6 bucks a quart on a $1,000 car, be my guest! But I'll bet ya dollars to donuts you'll get equal results with a HM oil like Maxlife, or heck, on any conventional oil.


Drew,

To you it may be a $1000 car. To me it's a $1300 car that I want the longest life and lowest fuel cost from.

Is Red Line overkill or a waste of money? Perhaps. I have used Red Line in the past and been very pleased with the performance and small improvement in gas mileage.

fat biker

 

[Footpounds]

Originally Posted By: Pat in Speedway
Keep an eye on your oil level. The 4AFE is known to consume. 1qt every 1,000 miles isn't uncommon.


I've never heard that. I've owned a couple of these engines, one in a Corolla and one in a Prizm. The oil level didn't budge from the FULL mark. Maybe I was just lucky?

 

[Drew99GT]

That's cool. I wasn't trying to diminish your car; heck, mine has seen better days aesthetically! But it's darn near perfect mechanically.

I used a solvent flush on it called BG Quick Clean - that made a pretty substantial improvement in performance. Even after using Auto-RX and the fact that visually, my engine was super clean, the Quick Clean turned fresh oil black as tar in 20 minutes and it came out nasty.

I'm pretty sure mine saw a couple 7K + mile oil change intervals in the hands of the previous owner, but after flushing and cleaning and a full tune up, it'll get 40 mpg highway and runs like a top. Great cars!