Cops gun down man carrying legally

[buickman50401]

Originally Posted By: Brons2
Originally Posted By: MrHorspwer
I would check whatever wacko conspiracy theorist websites you're visiting.


Exactly, WND is a tool for the ultra right-wing conservatives to sound their clarion calls to an unsuspecting public. Don't believe the hype.

This thread should be branded political, and deleted from this site. Period.

Just because something may come from a site you deem too political for your tastes doesn't mean the story itself is political. Its about the actions of the police in response to the incident.

If we were to follow your line of logic there are numerous main stream publications including with clear political leanings that we should be banned from posting articles from.

 

[JOD]

Originally Posted By: MrHorspwer
I would check whatever wacko conspiracy theorist websites you're visiting.

This isn't a new story. It happened in 2010. I question the motives of any site that would bring this up and present it as a new story.

That said, it has been through trial and a jury found the police officers justified in their response to the incident.

Just another conspiracy theorist website trying to stir the pot. Some people need to learn that dredging up and focusing on incidents like these doesn't doesn't help the cause for legal carry, it hinders it.


Agree, 100%. As you can see from some of the responses, it's obviously working. Yes, it's a gub'ment conspiracy. It can't be an idiotic rent-a-cop and a nervous policeman...

The Las Vegas Sun covered this extensively when it happened. It's pretty much a law school case study for eyewitness testimony: everyone saw something different. Some had Scott reaching for two different guns at the same time, after throwing merchandise around the store; others have him trying to drop to the ground and getting shot in the back. I imagine like most things, the truth is somewhere in the middle.

I'm inclined to believe both parties did something wrong here, but either way the result was really tragic in the end.

 

[JOD]

Originally Posted By: buickman50401

Just because something may come from a site you deem too political for your tastes doesn't mean the story itself is political. Its about the actions of the police in response to the incident.

The incident per se certainly isn't "political", but the spin being put on it certainly is: "manned gunned down for carrying legally". The article makes an attempt to paint the victim as a saint and the shooter as gunning him down in cold blood. Remind you of anything? Unlike the Martin case though, this has already been heard in court, something your linked rant fails to mention (along with a LOT of other details about the event). The linked article is meant to inflame, not inform--simple as that.

 

[ArrestMeRedZ]

Originally Posted By: MrHorspwer
Originally Posted By: ArrestMeRedZ
Originally Posted By: MrHorspwer
...That said, it has been through trial and a jury found the police officers justified in their response to the incident....


I agree with most of what you said, except for the above, which is completely false. There has been no trial, and there was no jury.


I'm half the country away from Las Vegas, so you probably know better than me. I got my statement from this article printed in the Las Vegas Sun:

http://www.lasvegassun.com/news/2010/sep/28/jury-shooting-justified/

Specifically:

Quote:
Goodman and Bill Scott talked to reporters outside the Regional Justice Center about 20 minutes after a seven-member Clark County coroner’s inquest jury ruled the death of Erik Scott as a justifiable homicide.

The jury of seven announced the unanimous decision at 5:29 p.m. after deliberating for about 90 minutes.

Jurors were instructed to determine whether the shooting was justifiable, excusable or criminal.


I suppose it does say "inquest" and not "trial". It definitely does say "jury" though.


I'll buy that, but don't confuse a "jury" at a coroner's inquest with a trial jury. There is no impartial jury selection as in a trial. Only witnesses called by the police or the DA (who, when retired, went on to be a police union executive), were allowed to testify. Jury instructions guarantee a justifiable ruling. The only questioners are police or county reps in league with them. To call the coroner's inquest system in Las Vegas a circus would be an injustice to Barnum and Bailey.

Don't get me wrong. In all of my dealings with Las Vegas Metro, the officers have been competent and capable. There are some bad apples though, and they affect the whole force. It's almost impossible to fire them.

Both sides made mistakes in this case. Mr. Scott is dead, and Metro got away completely with destroying and supressing evidence, if not manslaughter.

Since this shooting there have been three more that were even worse. One policeman, who has now been involved in two bad shoots (one probably accidental, one probably murder, both ruled justified by the Coroner's Inquest), has been given permanent desk duty by the Sheriff, whose hands are unfortunately tied.

 

[ArrestMeRedZ]

Originally Posted By: JOD
...this has already been heard in court, something your linked rant fails to mention ...


No, it hasn't.

edited, sorry, I misread your screen name, and thought you made different posts.

 

[d00df00d]

Originally Posted By: tommygunn
Originally Posted By: antiqueshell
Perhaps sending a message that legit gun owners are a target of the government?


This is the stupidest thing I have ever heard.

QED; the loss prevention guy seemed like he had an itch to be an authority and overstepped the situation, and mixed with a cop who had an itchy trigger finger set off a powderkeg. Judging by the police response from the LP's call he obviously made it seem like a hostage situation was moments to unfold. An officer without a cool head ran into a situation and made some bad, hasty choices.

The real issue here is the authorities at work are far too green with far too much responsibility and need to slow down; a difficult thing to do when regularly they ARE getting shot at.

Well said.

 

[TC]

I'd rather read a version of this incident from a mainstream, unbiased media outlet than the version from WND, a version with a possible agenda to it. Some of the stuff from WND requires a tin foil hat to read properly.

 

[Shannow]

Jean Charles Demenezes gives a pretty clear picture that part of the agenda is to terrorise the public into the numb reality that you can be executed at whim no tinfoil hat required.

Don't know this case, but invariably, the wagons close, and only one version of events come out...until found wronger than prom night at the Rothschilds.

 

[NHHEMI]

Originally Posted By: TC
I'd rather read a version of this incident from a mainstream, unbiased media outlet


Me too BUT no such thing anymore.

 

[andrewg]

The originating website for that story, WND (World Net Daily), often exaggerates or edits stories in order to pander to a certain anti-authority mindset. I am highly distrustful of the government and I despise the anti-gun crowd.....but in all honesty WND is guilty of slanted and biased 'reporting' and should be taken with a grain of salt.

 

[andrewg]

Originally Posted By: NHHEMI
Originally Posted By: TC
I'd rather read a version of this incident from a mainstream, unbiased media outlet


Me too BUT no such thing anymore.

Yes...it's pretty much impossible to get the real truth anymore. It seems like no matter what you hear in the news.....opinion and agendas enter into the story.
What ever happened to JUST reporting the facts?

 

[dishdude]

Originally Posted By: ArrestMeRedZ
Originally Posted By: JOD
...this has already been heard in court, something your linked rant fails to mention ...


No, it hasn't.

edited, sorry, I misread your screen name, and thought you made different posts.


There was a lengthy coroner's inquest...

Pretty much it came down to everyone saw something different, but almost all the witnesses stated that Erik Scott wasn't complying with the commands the police were giving him.

 

[JOD]

Originally Posted By: andrewg
Yes...it's pretty much impossible to get the real truth anymore. It seems like no matter what you hear in the news.....opinion and agendas enter into the story.
What ever happened to JUST reporting the facts?

People don't want "the facts", they want a narrative that fits their preconceived bias. This "news article" is a classic case in point.

This case was reported on extensively at the time in the local newspaper, in a far "less biased" way. But don't kid yourself, news has always had *some* bias or another. This certainly is nothing new. The news is reported by humans, and human nature has an inherent bias to it, including what is reported and how. It's been this way since the beginning of time. The best you can do is try to understand the perspective and potential bias from which the story is coming and read accordingly.

If anyone really want to read about this case, just Google it. It's a total dogs breakfast (it is actually used as a law school case study today). Everyone has a different story, and many of the witnesses have their own biases: a defense attorney who claims Scott was shot in the back with no warning (big surprise, but no one else confirms his version of events, nor does the coroner report?); a LEO who claims he was pretty much shot as he was given the order to get on his knees; Costco employees who claim he was throwing merchandise around the store and acting like a crazy man and reaching for his gun; random customers who tell varying stories which run the gamut or fit somewhere between those two versions...

As I said in my other post, I'm willing to believe that what actually happened is somewhere in the middle--but the idea that this is a contrived and targeted attempt to suppress the populace or some grand government conspiracy is simply moronic. Sorry, it is.

 

[ArrestMeRedZ]

The coroner's inquest, in Clark County where Las Vegas is located, is regarded as a joke by everyone who lives here, with the exception of the Police Protective Association.

Please don't tell me you are the one exception to that rule?

 

[JOD]

Originally Posted By: ArrestMeRedZ
The coroner's inquest, in Clark County where Las Vegas is located, is regarded as a joke by everyone who lives here, with the exception of the Police Protective Association.

Please don't tell me you are the one exception to that rule?


I certainly believe that the process is slanted to protect the cops; but I don't believe that the CIA has planted witnesses as part of a grand conspiracy to steal our freedoms and our guns...

 

[friendly_jacek]

follow up on the story:

Quote:
Two Las Vegas police officers who shot and killed Erik Scott in the controversial Costco shooting last year have received honors in a national officer of the year award.

Officers William Mosher and Joshua Stark received honorable mention in the National Association of Police Organizations' Top Cops awards.

A third officer involved in the shooting, Thomas Mendiola, was not honored. In January, Mendiola was charged with a felony for unlawfully giving a handgun to a two-time felon in an unrelated case. He has a preliminary hearing in May.


http://www.lvrj.com/news/national-police...-119926284.html

 

[ArrestMeRedZ]

Originally Posted By: JOD
Originally Posted By: ArrestMeRedZ
The coroner's inquest, in Clark County where Las Vegas is located, is regarded as a joke by everyone who lives here, with the exception of the Police Protective Association.

Please don't tell me you are the one exception to that rule?


I certainly believe that the process is slanted to protect the cops; but I don't believe that the CIA has planted witnesses as part of a grand conspiracy to steal our freedoms and our guns...


I can agree completely with both of those statements.

 

[rjundi]

Originally Posted By: L_Sludger
Originally Posted By: buickman50401


The officer’s frantic orders lasted for a slow count of 3 and were immediately followed by the two gunshots, a momentary pause, and a volley of several more shots. There was no pause or hesitation between the commands and the shots.

Dear Lord.

We signed our rights and freedoms away long ago and we're not giving them back. Let's revel in the long, dark reign of repression we are to live the rest of our lives under.


Life is so terrible in the US.

Just kidding. I think the criminals, terrorists and irresponsible, legal tort system unfortunately and insecure feeling in some they had to give.

 

[hattaresguy]

I don't like cops. I find the people who become cops usually can't hack it in the military and are poorly trained, and not the brightest.

 

[morris]

where is the names of the costco employees? how am i to know BEFORE i get to the costco door what there policy is? how many trips back to my car before i give up on concealed carry? i carry to protect the store, not just me, if you dont want my help, fine ill shop somewhere eles.