Conventional Motor Oil? Why?

[Ducked]

Originally Posted By: PeterPolyol
Maybe "conventional" as a terminology for engine oils should be retired, because as it stands now:
Synthetic = Best
Semi-synthetic = Better
Conventional = Good

This is marketing. It's an ultra-simple path of logic useful for upselling consumers. In a court of law, those terms mean absolute jack cheese in the context of engine oil.

OEMs require specifications, not 'synthetic'. Any possible use of these words by an OEM in vehicle literature would only be for the sake of an end-user's understanding in such a case, otherwise it's nothing but a dangling carrot. A consumer would not know the difference between a GrII+ and a GrIII base oil, and if they did, they likely wouldn't know it can be as small as a 1 or more point difference in a single base oil component's VI and even if they did, they would be citing actual VI values and base oil composition of the blend, not 'conventional' and 'synthetic'.


Yeh, that was my understanding.

So I don't understand the question.

 

[jongies3]

Because it's cheaper and still widely used everywhere. Take in account to all the older cars still running around that never required synthetic oil. Majority of people don't give two darns about what type of oil goes in their car as long as it's cheap. Most people aren't very enthusiastic about paying $10/qt for synthetic. All that aside, you can be pretty well rest assured conventional outsells synthetic double if not more, oil companies are making money on it so why would they stop making it?

 

[bbhero]

The proverbial cat is out of the bag now... Valvoline Premium conventional oil now states it is a synthetic blend. Havoline DS conventional oils now at to being a synthetic blend too. Bottom line I think is that Valvoline, Havoline, PYB, Castrol, Super S, Quaker State etc are all synthetic blends and have been for some time now in order to meet the API SN volatility standard. In order to get below that 15% mark they all have been mixing in some group 3s to get under that mark. If one defines conventional oil by meaning group 1 only then those are not commonly found anymore. If Group 2 is defined as conventional oil then yes that is obviously quite common. But an 100% group 2 oil that meets API SN may not all too common I would think given those standards and what Valvoline and Havoline now freely state. I would think my monograde SAE 30 API SN blended by Warren Oil is perhaps all group 2.

 

[SonofJoe]

Originally Posted By: bbhero
The proverbial cat is out of the bag now... Valvoline Premium conventional oil now states it is a synthetic blend. Havoline DS conventional oils now at to being a synthetic blend too. Bottom line I think is that Valvoline, Havoline, PYB, Castrol, Super S, Quaker State etc are all synthetic blends and have been for some time now in order to meet the API SN volatility standard. In order to get below that 15% mark they all have been mixing in some group 3s to get under that mark. If one defines conventional oil by meaning group 1 only then those are not commonly found anymore. If Group 2 is defined as conventional oil then yes that is obviously quite common. But an 100% group 2 oil that meets API SN may not all too common I would think given those standards and what Valvoline and Havoline now freely state. I would think my monograde SAE 30 API SN blended by Warren Oil is perhaps all group 2.


I think for GF-5, a lot of 5W30s were formulated as Group II/II+ blends to get below the 15% Noack limit (and also to pass the Sequence IIIG). However, that Group II+ is two thirds of the way to being Group III matters not a jot because under the base oil classification rules, Group II+ is deemed to be Group II and therefore tagged as 'conventional'.

Given that some US OEMs now seem to be asking for semi-synthetics, I'd hazard a guess that oil companies are simply swapping out Group II+ for a slightly lesser amount of Group III and invoking the '10% rule' of Base Oil Interchange. If they are, then it's very silly as Group II+ is a cheaper, more economically viable and overall 'greener' option than using Group III.

 

[bbhero]

Well... That's what they are doing it seems...
Havoline started admitting this late last yr. Valvoline just did so a couple of months ago. And remember the mysterious PYB 10w30 with a NOACK of 4.4%??? Which you, yourself stated there was no way that was just conventional oil. Ohh and look back at PYB 5w20 tested by the PQIA with a NOACK of 6.8%... Not Likely that was all group 2 either. Likely Pennzoil was dumping surplus group 3 into PYB. I bet the others have been doing this the entire time has well.

 

[FutureDoc]

Originally Posted By: 69GTX
Originally Posted By: FutureDoc
Wait, what???

Please elaborate.

I think you are doing some apples and oranges here. They have rebates for conventional too.

I can find and get non-sale conventional for sub $2.50 without trying. Sub $2.00 is common, and under $1.90 if I really try. $12/$13 for a 5qt jug and a $5 rebate is not hard. Heck Napa and a few places give a easy-to-spot $1.99 quart sale. For a 3.8 quart sump, that is less than $8 for a oil change.....


Whatever rebates I've seen for conventionals (like QSAD or Defy), those rebates aren't near as potent as the synthetics. And since I have 3 yrs of synthetic PP/M1/Edge stock-piled at $2.00/qt, $1.90 conventional oil isn't gonna move me. PYB would be my preferred conventional oil...and I've never seen it discounted under $14/jug...and no rebates that I've seen. So the PP is cheaper. I would never consider buying NAPA conventional, even at $1.00/qt. Not a fan at all of sodium oils.

As a rule, I don't find the Pennz, QS, Castrol, VWB, and Mobil conventional oils discounted very much at the big box stores ($1 here or there)....and of that group, only the QSAD routinely comes with rebates. And at $3 rebates per 5 qt jug the QSAD is hardly worth getting excited about). The other major conventionals rarely offer rebates.


Well, if you are sitting on a $2 stash of AZ oil, that is a tough cost to beat. I still have some in my stash but I have since donated most of my stock. I just picked up some Havoline clearance at OReilly for $14.97 a 5qt jug. Ehh price, decent enough to buy but I have a soft spot for Havoline and old Texaco branded items.

Well, for conventional here is my "best buy" without going into local clearances: Chevron Supreme 5qt jug at Amazon for $11.77 + $5 mail-in rebate. That is $6.77 or $1.35/qt

Ok, well I do see less QS rebates and fewer PYB. I think that is just Shell's efforts. On the other hand, their HDEO can be had for a song at times. Some of my best deals in my stash are T5 10w30/10w40 1g jugs for $4-5. I was getting close to $1 a qt for that deal.

I kinda share your same dislike for sodium oils as well... but my dislike is that I will not pay the same *price* for sodium add packs as non-sodium oils. So Napa on sale if good for me but I would never pay the normal price. For me, I rather go with a better filter and a sodium oil (Napa Gold + Napa oil) than a lesser filter and a non-sodium oil. For the Subaru, Napa Gold 57055 is my go-to.

Still, $1/qt for Napa oil would be an amazing deal. There is nothing wrong with that oil at that price. Now, you could not give me BP oil for free.

 

[4WD]

It will be interesting to see where the semi synthetic market is 5 years from now - with some of the recent plant upgrades to produce more Group II+ ...IMO - it will become easier if the market supports ...
Currently PG is the only semi I use - but see some romance with all the drain off stuff etc ...

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted By: bbhero
The proverbial cat is out of the bag now... Valvoline Premium conventional oil now states it is a synthetic blend.

They might as well. I can't speak for your market, but up here, conventional and synthetic are continuing to converge in price, at least when comparing regular, outrageous Canadian oil prices or comparing the routine rollbacks and sales. To make matters worse, HM oils seem to be stuck in limbo.

The distributors are still doing quite well on conventional pricing, though, for whatever reason.

 

[ndfergy]

I have no doubt synthetics are a superior oil if engineered correctly. However, under the GF-5 spec I wonder if they're chasing their tail to maintain the price point. Solubility, natural oxidizers et al.