Considering downsizing from F150

Joined
Feb 20, 2007
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Location
Southeast
“It’s me, me, I’m the problem it’s me.” - Taylor swift

Don’t read this unless you are bored.

My wife and I took a stroll through a few dealers last week. I’m considering trading the F150 since we don’t tow a camper any longer, and my commute has gotten longer, and you’ve probably read my posts about its transmission. So no rush, I’ve started browsing midsize and smaller SUVs to see what’s out there. I’m a disaster when it comes to this. Admittedly, the F150 checks many boxes.

XC60. Love the lines. i have a soft spot for Volvos. I prefer RWD. Sooo many reviews about software and electronics glitches with these. Touch screen drives everything, which is a detractor.

CRV. Was great for my wife. Too noisy on the interstate for me. I’ve grown up with so many Hondas and just want something different. Other makes have interiors I prefer.

X3. Interior looks like it’s made by rubbermaid. Unlike my 328 experience, I loved the seats. Deal breaker, and this is how much I frustrate myself. The right side of the steering wheel hits my hand before the left. Yet the wheel was centered on the seat and appeared centered on the dash. I couldn’t figure it out but undoubtedly I did not feel aligned in this cockpit. Did some reading and learned the steering column is angled 2 degrees inboard, and they angled the dash 2 degrees as well to provide matching optics. This is nuts. The chair however points straight forward. 2-pedal spacing was awkward too - close together and the brake pedal has a much higher elevation than the throttle. A non-straight steering column in a DD would drive me batty, for all the reasons a bitoger can imagine.

Rav4H. My wife’s RAV4 H is an excellent vehicle and tbh is a top contender. The tow rating is 1750 and I would need a trailer if we sell the pickup. The gas models can pull 3000, but crawl under this thing and it looks like all front/rear subframes are barely tacked on to the unibody structure. This is a lightweight and light duty underpinning design by my limited experience. However, I’ll be towing a riding mower, mulch, plywood and occasional audio gear, and could work. But the thing I notice negatively every time I drive it, is the entertainment display is placed too high and too prominently and too close to my face. Visually, it’s closer in distance than the speedo. I’d like to drive first and fidget with the radio third. One thing the RAV does well, and the X3 for that matter, is the greenhouse.

I really enjoyed the interior of a prior Lexus sedan we had, so what about the NX or RX?

I’ve not sat in either yet, but if I like the RAV, what about the NX? Should have upscale interior, and they seem to depreciate quicker than the Toyota, so a used one could be a sweet spot? In both the NX and RX, their designs have the shoulder line 2” higher than the RAV and X3. My wife always felt like she was “sitting in a hole” in our GS; poor greenhouse. However, dashboard designs and interior furnishings are superior in the Lexi. Surprise google-foo?- the NX gets online complaints for being noisier than the RAV4, to include professional reviews (rookie door seal design, run flat tires, non-acoustic glass). Clearly, we need to sit in one, for if the greenhouse is ok this could be a good spot to be.

The RX-h could be a contender too, but the ones I’ve ridden in very much communicate that’s it’s a nose-heavy FWD, and the MPG in hybrid form is no better than a gasser in the other makes.

Not interested in any of the domestics.

So - as picky as I am, the work-spec F150 XL has good ergo, quiet ride, carries cargo, has excellent visibility and for a full size truck achieves impressive mpg (21.7 when I don’t idle it 20 minutes at a time for phone calls). This has been surprising for me.

As you become more experienced with your vehicle choices, does this happen to you!?
 
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Not sure what the question is? that it's getting harder not easier with more choices? and that tried & true is more appealing, despite past problems?

I suspect yes. The older I get, the more I hate car shopping. When I was younger and dumber, I was convinced I knew more than I did, and could make decisions and just run with it. Now everything gets second, third, fourth guessed... and a year or two after any decision I make, tenth, eleventh, twelfth guessed... No such thing as a good decision anymore. Nothing but regrets, so now I go with whatever I'll least regret.

I presume the usual details of miles per year, budget, etc are being weighed against just fixing what you already got, and won't ask.

You did consider a Crown Vic, right? I mean, can't ignore the obvious choice.
 
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Excellent write up. What about a Highlander? Outback/Forrester?

Both my Camry and RAV4 are a little loud on the highway.
 
My wife’s RAV4 H is an excellent vehicle and tbh is a top contender. The tow rating is 1750 and I would need a trailer if we sell the pickup. The gas models can pull 3000, but crawl under this thing and it looks like all front/rear subframes are barely tacked on to the unibody structure.
Not trying to sell you anything - but certain ICE trims can pull 3500lbs. There are lots of guys at Rav4world pulling tent trailers and a-frame pop ups. I haven't heard of issues. Only certain trims however - they have an additional engine oil cooler and maybe other stuff.

I don't really understand your complaint on the subframes. They seem very integrated into the body - which is what you want - large wide joints make for stiff joints.

Either way, not trying to sell you anything. I also wanted to like the NX but couldn't - doesn't seem like much if any improvement.
 
“It’s me, me, I’m the problem it’s me.” - Taylor swift

Don’t read this unless you are bored.

My wife and I took a stroll through a few dealers last week. I’m considering trading the F150 since we don’t tow a camper any longer, and my commute has gotten longer, and you’ve probably read my posts about its transmission. So no rush, I’ve started browsing midsize and smaller SUVs to see what’s out there. I’m a disaster when it comes to this. Admittedly, the F150 checks many boxes.

XC60. Love the lines. i have a soft spot for Volvos. I prefer RWD. Sooo many reviews about software and electronics glitches with these. Touch screen drives everything, which is a detractor.

CRV. Was great for my wife. Too noisy on the interstate for me. I’ve grown up with so many Hondas and just want something different. Other makes have interiors I prefer.

X3. Interior looks like it’s made by rubbermaid. Unlike my 328 experience, I loved the seats. Deal breaker, and this is how much I frustrate myself. The right side of the steering wheel hits my hand before the left. Yet the wheel was centered on the seat and appeared centered on the dash. I couldn’t figure it out but undoubtedly I did not feel aligned in this cockpit. Did some reading and learned the steering column is angled 2 degrees inboard, and they angled the dash 2 degrees as well to provide matching optics. This is nuts. The chair however points straight forward. 2-pedal spacing was awkward too - close together and the brake pedal has a much higher elevation than the throttle. A non-straight steering column in a DD would drive me batty, for all the reasons a bitoger can imagine.

Rav4H. My wife’s RAV4 H is an excellent vehicle and tbh is a top contender. The tow rating is 1750 and I would need a trailer if we sell the pickup. The gas models can pull 3000, but crawl under this thing and it looks like all front/rear subframes are barely tacked on to the unibody structure. This is a lightweight and light duty underpinning design by my limited experience. However, I’ll be towing a riding mower, mulch, plywood and occasional audio gear, and could work. But the thing I notice negatively every time I drive it, is the entertainment display is placed too high and too prominently and too close to my face. Visually, it’s closer in distance than the speedo. I’d like to drive first and fidget with the radio third. One thing the RAV does well, and the X3 for that matter, is the greenhouse.

I really enjoyed the interior of a prior Lexus sedan we had, so what about the NX or RX?

I’ve not sat in either yet, but if I like the RAV, what about the NX? Should have upscale interior, and they seem to depreciate quicker than the Toyota, so a used one could be a sweet spot? In both the NX and RX, their designs have the shoulder line 2” higher than the RAV and X3. My wife always felt like she was “sitting in a hole” in our GS; poor greenhouse. However, dashboard designs and interior furnishings are superior in the Lexi. Surprise google-foo?- the NX gets online complaints for being noisier than the RAV4, to include professional reviews (rookie door seal design, run flat tires, non-acoustic glass). Clearly, we need to sit in one, for if the greenhouse is ok this could be a good spot to be.

The RX-h could be a contender too, but the ones I’ve ridden in very much communicate that’s it’s a nose-heavy FWD, and the MPG in hybrid form is no better than a gasser in the other makes.

Not interested in any of the domestics.

So - as picky as I am, the work-spec F150 XL has good ergo, quiet ride, carries cargo, has excellent visibility and for a full size truck achieves impressive mpg (21.7 when I don’t idle it 20 minutes at a time for phone calls). This has been surprising for me.

As you become more experienced with your vehicle choices, does this happen to you!?
The NX felt small at least to me. It could be a little more refined, and you HAVE to check the towing package option and make sure it has it or it severely limits your towing. The F sport version felt planted but rough on dirt washboard roads. This was when I worked for a Lexus dealership back in the day. The may have improved since then.
 
I hate domestic cars.
I hate domestic cars.
I hate domestic cars.

Now that we got that out of the way... Have you considered a Ford Maverick Hybrid? It's the swiss knife of efficient commuters currently. From owners feedback that I've seen so far - everyone is happy with the Hybrid model. Simple FWD and over 45MPG... I know you prefer RWD, but keep an open mind and maybe at least try it? As far a the 2.0L EcoBoost (FWD/AWD) Maverick - some seem to share the transmission issues of the Ford Edge... Anyone got more details on that?
 
Thank you. Sometimes these threads devolve into hate quickly. It’s truly helpful reading the comments here.

@JohnnyG - SUV because (a) cargo and (b) seat height. I drive into town from “truck country” and sitting a little higher is more comfortable in the tall vehicle traffic (though if it weren’t for that I’d be fine with a sedan).

Subaru - I’ve owned a couple, and my brother had 3. Good vehicles, though all starting consuming oil sooner than any other foreign make I’ve known. (Seals start leaking in my first one at 36k, in my second at 60k. By 150k my brothers second one used a lot of oil; his first one was bought back by the dealer due to a botched dealer oil change).

I’m leaning more towards a hybrid drivetrain at this point, hence the leaning towards the Toyota/lexus family.

@supton - yes, exactly, that’s it. I used to *want* a particular vehicle and work/plan/save to get it. Now it’s more, “optimize to my changing age, needs, location,” and not wanting to do it a second time. Crown Vics for the world! Or prior to that, the bitog favorite, medium brown wagon!

@Leo99, a highlander hybrid if I could find one with a right price would be a contender. I’m not when they started that powertrain but that would certainly be an option.

@Graham Piccinini - maverick is indeed a Swiss Army knife of small trucklets. And it’s probably ideal. I did sit in one and … I don’t think I want another ford… the 2 dealers within an hour from me have not been a good experience. One has a poor service department. The other, whom I bought the car from, is out of town and said they’d provide me with loaners if I used them for service. So, I started using them for service and they stopped providing me with a loaner and wouldn’t even shuttle me one way home. Ford is out.

@97prizm - good points on NX size. Customer satisfaction seems higher with the rav4.

@SC Maintenance - you are right and truly I don’t know what’s in the unibody. It *looks* like they have zero embedded frame rails, and just tacked reinforcements to the spot where the subframes bolt on, less than any other small vehicle I’ve been under. BUT, chassis torsional flex is cut in half in the latest gen, which says something about strength.

Again thank you for all the thoughts. The group-think is appreciated.


-m
 
I hate domestic cars.
I hate domestic cars.
I hate domestic cars.

Now that we got that out of the way... Have you considered a Ford Maverick Hybrid? It's the swiss knife of efficient commuters currently. From owners feedback that I've seen so far - everyone is happy with the Hybrid model. Simple FWD and over 45MPG... I know you prefer RWD, but keep an open mind and maybe at least try it? As far a the 2.0L EcoBoost (FWD/AWD) Maverick - some seem to share the transmission issues of the Ford Edge... Anyone got more details on that?
LOL

Every once in a while I see a domestic car I like. Then I research the common problems, and remember why I too hate domestic cars. Currently researching Buick Verano. Wish me luck!
 
I'd go with a Rav 4 ICE with towing package or a Highlander with towing package. You will be happy with them and have the capacity you want.
 
Thank you. Sometimes these threads devolve into hate quickly. It’s truly helpful reading the comments here.

@JohnnyG - SUV because (a) cargo and (b) seat height. I drive into town from “truck country” and sitting a little higher is more comfortable in the tall vehicle traffic (though if it weren’t for that I’d be fine with a sedan).

Subaru - I’ve owned a couple, and my brother had 3. Good vehicles, though all starting consuming oil sooner than any other foreign make I’ve known. (Seals start leaking in my first one at 36k, in my second at 60k. By 150k my brothers second one used a lot of oil; his first one was bought back by the dealer due to a botched dealer oil change).

I’m leaning more towards a hybrid drivetrain at this point, hence the leaning towards the Toyota/lexus family.

@supton - yes, exactly, that’s it. I used to *want* a particular vehicle and work/plan/save to get it. Now it’s more, “optimize to my changing age, needs, location,” and not wanting to do it a second time. Crown Vics for the world! Or prior to that, the bitog favorite, medium brown wagon!

@Leo99, a highlander hybrid if I could find one with a right price would be a contender. I’m not when they started that powertrain but that would certainly be an option.

@Graham Piccinini - maverick is indeed a Swiss Army knife of small trucklets. And it’s probably ideal. I did sit in one and … I don’t think I want another ford… the 2 dealers within an hour from me have not been a good experience. One has a poor service department. The other, whom I bought the car from, is out of town and said they’d provide me with loaners if I used them for service. So, I started using them for service and they stopped providing me with a loaner and wouldn’t even shuttle me one way home. Ford is out.

@97prizm - good points on NX size. Customer satisfaction seems higher with the rav4.

@SC Maintenance - you are right and truly I don’t know what’s in the unibody. It *looks* like they have zero embedded frame rails, and just tacked reinforcements to the spot where the subframes bolt on, less than any other small vehicle I’ve been under. BUT, chassis torsional flex is cut in half in the latest gen, which says something about strength.

Again thank you for all the thoughts. The group-think is appreciated.


-m
Don't be intimidated by the truck country thing. They don't want to be hit any more than you do! :)
 
I disagree with you Johnny, they drive like they are suicidal here. I watched an f150 go straight from a turn only and the aluminum tore like paper when the semi caught the truck and staying in the throttle for a bit ..
New Road and I35 in Waco...the trucks don't put up with 4 wheelers ....stuff.
 
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Thank you. Sometimes these threads devolve into hate quickly. It’s truly helpful reading the comments here.

@JohnnyG - SUV because (a) cargo and (b) seat height. I drive into town from “truck country” and sitting a little higher is more comfortable in the tall vehicle traffic (though if it weren’t for that I’d be fine with a sedan).

Subaru - I’ve owned a couple, and my brother had 3. Good vehicles, though all starting consuming oil sooner than any other foreign make I’ve known. (Seals start leaking in my first one at 36k, in my second at 60k. By 150k my brothers second one used a lot of oil; his first one was bought back by the dealer due to a botched dealer oil change).

I’m leaning more towards a hybrid drivetrain at this point, hence the leaning towards the Toyota/lexus family.

@supton - yes, exactly, that’s it. I used to *want* a particular vehicle and work/plan/save to get it. Now it’s more, “optimize to my changing age, needs, location,” and not wanting to do it a second time. Crown Vics for the world! Or prior to that, the bitog favorite, medium brown wagon!

@Leo99, a highlander hybrid if I could find one with a right price would be a contender. I’m not when they started that powertrain but that would certainly be an option.

@Graham Piccinini - maverick is indeed a Swiss Army knife of small trucklets. And it’s probably ideal. I did sit in one and … I don’t think I want another ford… the 2 dealers within an hour from me have not been a good experience. One has a poor service department. The other, whom I bought the car from, is out of town and said they’d provide me with loaners if I used them for service. So, I started using them for service and they stopped providing me with a loaner and wouldn’t even shuttle me one way home. Ford is out.

@97prizm - good points on NX size. Customer satisfaction seems higher with the rav4.

@SC Maintenance - you are right and truly I don’t know what’s in the unibody. It *looks* like they have zero embedded frame rails, and just tacked reinforcements to the spot where the subframes bolt on, less than any other small vehicle I’ve been under. BUT, chassis torsional flex is cut in half in the latest gen, which says something about strength.

Again thank you for all the thoughts. The group-think is appreciated.


-m
My mom is on her 3rd Highlander Hybrid. All of them just sit at 24MPG combined. All are AWD.
- 1st 2006 Black was great, but at 200k miles we got rid of it as we found another one at good price with half the mileage.
- 2nd one was also a 2006, but white and in better shape. Enjoyed it, until a motorcyclist (RIP) t-boned it at 100-130MPH. Highlander took the hit quite well, parents in front seats just got bruises, brother in rear seat got thrown out of the car, but also just bruises and rash. Motorcyclist didn't make it unfortunately.
- 3rd one is a 2012 burgundy. Hate the color, but price was right. This one is a 3.5L, while both 2006 models were 3.3L. Power feels the same, but 2012 is able to squeeze out another 2MPG extra on the highway. It is still on active duty, recently crossed 200k miles, and the only repair needed so far was front window tracks. There is a bolt and bracket that are known to break, so the window goes off track on way down, and doesn't close without help on way back up. That's it for issues. Other expenses are oil+filters and tires. Last year it had to make one continuous trip from NC down to south Florida, then up to north of Maine, and back to Charlotte NC. Took it like a champ, without a hiccup, 26MPG all the way in Toyota plush comfort.
 
So, if you want to save money on fuel cost, why an SUV?
These are sedans. They have some ground clearance, you sit upright, with enough trunk space to transport Jimmy Hoffa.

The stuff they call Sedans now are go carts with a roof.

1722206618607.jpg
 
“It’s me, me, I’m the problem it’s me.” - Taylor swift

Don’t read this unless you are bored.

My wife and I took a stroll through a few dealers last week. I’m considering trading the F150 since we don’t tow a camper any longer, and my commute has gotten longer, and you’ve probably read my posts about its transmission. So no rush, I’ve started browsing midsize and smaller SUVs to see what’s out there. I’m a disaster when it comes to this. Admittedly, the F150 checks many boxes.

XC60. Love the lines. i have a soft spot for Volvos. I prefer RWD. Sooo many reviews about software and electronics glitches with these. Touch screen drives everything, which is a detractor.

CRV. Was great for my wife. Too noisy on the interstate for me. I’ve grown up with so many Hondas and just want something different. Other makes have interiors I prefer.

X3. Interior looks like it’s made by rubbermaid. Unlike my 328 experience, I loved the seats. Deal breaker, and this is how much I frustrate myself. The right side of the steering wheel hits my hand before the left. Yet the wheel was centered on the seat and appeared centered on the dash. I couldn’t figure it out but undoubtedly I did not feel aligned in this cockpit. Did some reading and learned the steering column is angled 2 degrees inboard, and they angled the dash 2 degrees as well to provide matching optics. This is nuts. The chair however points straight forward. 2-pedal spacing was awkward too - close together and the brake pedal has a much higher elevation than the throttle. A non-straight steering column in a DD would drive me batty, for all the reasons a bitoger can imagine.

Rav4H. My wife’s RAV4 H is an excellent vehicle and tbh is a top contender. The tow rating is 1750 and I would need a trailer if we sell the pickup. The gas models can pull 3000, but crawl under this thing and it looks like all front/rear subframes are barely tacked on to the unibody structure. This is a lightweight and light duty underpinning design by my limited experience. However, I’ll be towing a riding mower, mulch, plywood and occasional audio gear, and could work. But the thing I notice negatively every time I drive it, is the entertainment display is placed too high and too prominently and too close to my face. Visually, it’s closer in distance than the speedo. I’d like to drive first and fidget with the radio third. One thing the RAV does well, and the X3 for that matter, is the greenhouse.

I really enjoyed the interior of a prior Lexus sedan we had, so what about the NX or RX?

I’ve not sat in either yet, but if I like the RAV, what about the NX? Should have upscale interior, and they seem to depreciate quicker than the Toyota, so a used one could be a sweet spot? In both the NX and RX, their designs have the shoulder line 2” higher than the RAV and X3. My wife always felt like she was “sitting in a hole” in our GS; poor greenhouse. However, dashboard designs and interior furnishings are superior in the Lexi. Surprise google-foo?- the NX gets online complaints for being noisier than the RAV4, to include professional reviews (rookie door seal design, run flat tires, non-acoustic glass). Clearly, we need to sit in one, for if the greenhouse is ok this could be a good spot to be.

The RX-h could be a contender too, but the ones I’ve ridden in very much communicate that’s it’s a nose-heavy FWD, and the MPG in hybrid form is no better than a gasser in the other makes.

Not interested in any of the domestics.

So - as picky as I am, the work-spec F150 XL has good ergo, quiet ride, carries cargo, has excellent visibility and for a full size truck achieves impressive mpg (21.7 when I don’t idle it 20 minutes at a time for phone calls). This has been surprising for me.

As you become more experienced with your vehicle choices, does this happen to you!?

If you don't care what your truck is worth-make a move. You will be surprised out how the market for pickups have changed in the last 12 months.
 
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