Condensation Question

[cadfaeltex]

Help me see if my thinking is right:

1. Condensation in the oil is caused by repeated short trips that do not get the engine up to temp long enough to 'burn' then off.

2. For this reason, people often recommend shorter OCI for cars that do a lot of shorter trips and because of the short OCI often Dino. (which is what I'm doing this time)

3. After reading the 'coming out of winter storage' thread that got posted today, the best way to get rid of the condensation is a good highway run.

4. It would be possible to drive a highway run on X minutes every Y days or weeks to burn off the condesation and keep a longer OCI and make Synthetic economically viable.

Obviously not an oil guru like many on here but that's me thoughts. So good so far?

It my reasoning is sound, what are the variables. How long at operating temp and at what interval would you need to drive to keep condensation levels acceptable in a short trip severe driving model?

TIA,
Tony

 

[CATERHAM]

Condensation is more of an issue in winter and not an issue in the summer. The colder the engine is when first started the longer you will need to run it to avoid the problem.

In the colder months, if you see even a hint of condensation under the oil cap, water droplets or white mayonnaise like stuff after a run then the engine oil didn't get hot enough to burn it off.

 

[logcar]

Originally Posted By: CATERHAM

white mayonnaise like stuff


I was just about to post a topic about this.

I drove my car today and checked the dipstick and it was covered with a foamy white/tan-ish creamy substance.

I wiped it off with a paper towel, put it back, pulled it out again and it was covered with it again...so i guess the question is: Is this condensation or something more serious?

 

[ahoier]

Yep, more of an issue during winter.....even here in FL, I'll notice the temperature gauge (which on my car is coolant temp...) take longer to reach the "median range" where it "typically" sits...

Even our mild winters, I'll find the temp gauge hasn't reached it's "typical" spot during the 9 mile/15 minute trip to work....

So I'm sure to take it for a week/end (depending on schedule) for a good half hour during the week end....

 

[JAG]

I don't know how long of a highway drive it would take to make the oil "dry". If you did know, you could calculate whether the extra miles put on the oil to dry it would reduce or increase the length of the OCI in time that you could safely do. Point is, the extra miles may cause you to have to change the oil at a sooner time rather than longer time.

 

[Quattro Pete]

Originally Posted By: logcar
I was just about to post a topic about this.

I drove my car today and checked the dipstick and it was covered with a foamy white/tan-ish creamy substance.

The mayonnaise stuff typically shows up under the oil fill cap. If you have it down it the oil pan, this may be some other issue. Are you losing coolant? If not, just take the car for an extended drive and see if the mayonnaise disappears.

 

[CATERHAM]

Originally Posted By: logcar
Originally Posted By: CATERHAM

white mayonnaise like stuff


I was just about to post a topic about this.

I drove my car today and checked the dipstick and it was covered with a foamy white/tan-ish creamy substance.

I wiped it off with a paper towel, put it back, pulled it out again and it was covered with it again...so i guess the question is: Is this condensation or something more serious?

No it's just a water/oil emulsion.
Unscrew the oil cap to see how much of the stuff is visable.
If a lot has accumulated, it can take a very long run to get rid of it all. Also make sure your coolant temp's are normal (hot) and that there is no noticeable delay in the engine coming up to temperature; which would indicate a defective thermostat.

 

[cadfaeltex]

After I drove the Jag home today I looked under the cap and didn't notice any of the above. After 5 months, the oil on the dipstick is about 1/4 way down so not two bad of a consumption for a 19 year old English engine.

 

[BISCUT]

Wanted to add something to the discussion. Talking F-150 2004 vintage 5.4 3V. My temp gage hits the middle point (normal operating temp) at about 100F. My tuner says so anyway! At about 30F ambient it takes a good 12 miles highwat to get the oil temp to 160/170F and does not hit 180F.

That was a big surprise for me! That the temp gage would say normal operating at around 100F.

 

[CATERHAM]

Do you mean 100C as the normal hot coolant temp's?

 

[BISCUT]

Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
Do you mean 100C as the normal hot coolant temp's?


No Sir, my gage hits the middle mark (normal op temp) at about the time my tuner (Edge CS) says the oil temp is 100F. I'll see if i can snap a pic of both readings.

My tuner would seem pretty accuate. Shows my highway driving oil temps at 192F at 75-80mph with ambient temp 40F and trans fluid temp about 154F for the same conditions.

I wanted to point out that just because your temp gage says you are at normal operating temp doesnt mean your oil is anywhere near 160-180 mark to burn off condensations and/or any fuel present.

 

[mechtech2]

Ford gauges have a 40 deg range when they don't move.

They want stable gauges that don't alarm people.

 

[BISCUT]

Mine sure is stable!!! Hits midpoint at 104F this morning and remians there!!!!!!!

 

[Solarent]

Quote:
Condensation is more of an issue in winter and not an issue in the summer. The colder the engine is when first started the longer you will need to run it to avoid the problem.

+ 1
This is also the reason why severe service is often defined based on ambient temperature. Like CATERAM said, the colder the engine is at start, the longer it needs to be run to get it to temp and get the condensation dealt with.

 

[amm95]

The saying is if u go ten miles or more on your drive to work etc .. it will have all the moisture gone. A couple times or at least once a week will be prob good if u have a shorter drive and lots of lights to go through. Yes it is more a issue in the winter but even at temps at 70 your oil is at 170 and above and when the oil cools u will get moisture in there also cause of the temp difference so far apart.. conventional oil attracts moisture or will hold it. SYN oils don't or very little amounts compared to conventional oil. good luck

 

[amm95]

I meant to say drive it 10 miles or more 1 or 2 times a week if u drive less than 10 miles on your trips to work. So this helps the issue of condensation not being there.

 

[yonyon]

It really depends on the vehicle, weather, and type of driving. For example, my pontiac 4 cyl needs about 35 minutes in to summer and nearly an hour in the winter to fully warm up the oil. My Suziki 4 cyl only needs 10 minutes in the summer and 30 in the winter to warm up. This is with mixed driving. Straight highway driving takes a little longer. Idling probably won't ever fully warm the oil up except on cars with a oil/water heat exchanger.

With decent PCV flow, water will happily leave the oil before it reaches full warm. In general, PCV flow tends to be best with steady state driving vs stop & go.

 

[yonyon]

Could a little foam insulation sprayed onto the pan help? Has anyone tried anything like that?

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted By: yonyon
Could a little foam insulation sprayed onto the pan help?


It could help, but I'd be cautious. Some vehicles may depend, at least somewhat, on the oil pan for oil cooling.

 

[antiqueshell]

I wouldn't recommend insulating the oil pan. Just ocassionally drive the car long enough to burn the moisture off. Doesn't have to be every week I'd say once a month is plenty. As long as you are doing 7500 miles oil changes or so.