Cold Cuts Electric Vehicle Range

[nthach]

Originally Posted by xBa380

My 18' Camry SE Hybrid which should get 43/46, I am down to about 33-35 MPG. Winter fuel, increase drag, colder temps for batteries, heaters, etc…. No good for the MPG. It's just crazy to be so far under the estimates… Any car I've driven before, even in winter, I would just be on the low end of the MPG range. Not 10 mpg under.


I've taken my car up to Tahoe this past weekend, the Bay Area/Sacramento was in the high-40s to mid-50s all week but it never got above 40 in in the Sierra Nevada foothills and it was in the 10s-20s on the north shore. Even though I have a roof rack for more drag, I just barely cracked 39MPG. That same trip I got 50+MPG in the spring time first time I've done it.

While I do have a coolant thermos to help with warm up, the PTC elements in the heater core and electric AC compressor were called upon to keep the cabin warm. And the hybrid battery was getting a workout going up Donner Summit.

 

[nthach]

Originally Posted by emg
Originally Posted by SirTanon
This just in: batteries lose efficiency when they are cold


Don't forget that they need to keep the battery warm, too. So even if the car is just sitting in the parking lot, it may be sucking power from the battery to keep it warm enough to not die.

I don't think Tesla or GM have PTC elements in the battery cooling loop to keep them warm. Li-Ion/Li-Polymer batteries(Toyota is using Li-Pos in the Prius Plug-In/Prime/Eco and supposedly the new 2019 Camry Hybrid, while the Prius AWD and Mirai are still using NiMH) are sensitive to extreme temperature swings. The cold slows them down, excessive heat causes them to catch on fire.

 

[emg]

Originally Posted by Farnsworth
Some people ride around freezing in electric only cars just because it ruins the range.


To be fair, I sometimes turn off the heater in the Forester because the programmers decided to run the engine at higher rpms in cold weather when the heater is on, and that trashes the fuel economy. With the heater off, it basically gets the same mpg as summer driving.

Not possible below about -20 though, as the windows freeze up.

 

[nthach]

Sounds like a fast idle strategy that Subaru did to get the heaters to kick off quicker. I guess they didn't want to go with a CHS system like on the 1st-2nd gen Prius or an exhaust heat recovery system.

 

[oil_film_movies]

Originally Posted by CR94
Originally Posted by xBa380
... My 18' Camry SE Hybrid which should get 43/46, I am down to about 33-35 MPG. ... Any car I've driven before, even in winter, I would just be on the low end of the MPG range. Not 10 mpg under. ...
Don't fall for the fallacy of measuring consumption in mpg numbers. Dropping from 10 mpg from 44 to 34 doesn't cost as much in increased fuel consumption as dropping from (for example) 20 to 17.5.
Very true. If hybrid "A" gets 54 MPG & "B" gets 43, that's a $142 difference per year. Now if gas car "C" gets 32 MPG, its $240 different than hybrid "B" which got 43 MPG. The diff between 43 MPG and 32 MPG is much more costly than 54 MPG to 43 MPG. ((1/43)-(1/32))x12000x2.50 and ((1/54)-(1/43))x12000x2.50
Originally Posted by CR94
Dealing with winter requires extra energy to propel a car and heat it, regardless of the energy source.
No extra energy for a gas car, since cabin heat is waste engine heat, nothing additional generated. In hybrids, the engine runs to create the waste cabin heat, and thats where it takes a small hit. In electric cars, it all comes from the battery.

 

[Gasbuggy]

I got such a laugh out of the idea of Tesla fanatics suddenly not being able to make their commute because of the cold weather range decrease.

 

[oil_film_movies]

Originally Posted by Gasbuggy
I got such a laugh out of the idea of Tesla fanatics suddenly not being able to make their commute because of the cold weather range decrease.
Teslas have 200 miles range in the cold. How many of those do you think have to commute over 100 miles each way? Not many, thats for sure. .... A bigger issue is forgetting to plug the car in at night before bed. I Lyft-drove a person last year who had a Tesla who forget to plug it in, similar to your cell phone running out of juice, yet thats why we have ride share services.

You're right to be jealous of Tesla drivers. They have a faster, quieter, more comfortable, & much cooler ride than you.