Classic cars and oil guru's step on in..

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Originally Posted By: A_Harman
Originally Posted By: stickshift
Thanks for all the help guys.

I guess I should point out why the VR1 conventional race oil is bothering me nowadays,,,and maybe someone could shed some light on it.

It's now rated SM,,,which if I'm not mistaken makes the oil satisfactory for new cars up to the 2005 model year. Now how can this oil still contain a high ZDDP solution if it's now an SM rated oil? The whole reason ZDDP was reduced was due to new cars and their cat converters.
When you look on Vavoline's website this VR1 conventional race oil is still listed as having 1200-1300 ppm's of ZDDP. I wonder if that's a typo or misinformation,,,because that seems contradicting of the SM rating.
Has anyone done a new oil annalis of this oil to see exactly what's going on?


The lower zddp levels of post-SH oils apply only to 20 and 30-weight oils. 40 and above do not have zddp limits. So the VR1 20w50 can be labeled SM. The 10w30 is labeled SH, but even it exceeds SH levels of Phos. I'm still trying to figure that one out.



Excellent info, thanks. Looks like VR1 20w-50 still contains a fair amount of ZDDP. Not bad considering I can find this oil onsale for $2.99 a quart.
 
Originally Posted By: stickshift
When you look on Vavoline's website this VR1 conventional race oil is still listed as having 1200-1300 ppm's of ZDDP. I wonder if that's a typo or misinformation,,,because that seems contradicting of the SM rating.
Has anyone done a new oil annalis of this oil to see exactly what's going on?

Take it for what its worth, but several VOAs of the VR1 have come in with ZDDP levels far below Vavoline's claims. Whereas, Rotella consistently has respectable ZDDP levels for a CJ-4 rated oil, plus its a whole lot cheaper and easy to find.

If you really want honest 1200+ ppm ZDDP levels in an off the shelf oil, stock up on Castrol GTX 15w40 in CI-4+ grade, should still be some left around, my local Advance Auto has them in quart size.
 
Originally Posted By: CMMeadAM
Amsoils ZRod 10W30 has 1440 ppm ZDDP....that's directly from Amsoil. It also provides outstandng corrosion protection for
engines that sit idle for a period of time. We also use Amsoil
HDD5W30 in a few of our muscle cars, 1380 ppm ZDDP. Both have been excellent.


I like Amsoil products (use it in some trans and rearends here and also use a couple of the EA filters on 2 cars). I am seriously thinking of becoming part of the preferred customer program so I can start buying stuff wholesale and use more of it.
 
The Customer Preferred program is a good deal epecially when you use a fair amount of their products. It brings the costs down to off the shelf levels and you get great performing products at the same time. Pretty hard to beat !
 
Originally Posted By: stickshift
I like Amsoil products (use it in some trans and rearends here and also use a couple of the EA filters on 2 cars). I am seriously thinking of becoming part of the preferred customer program so I can start buying stuff wholesale and use more of it.

If you do, make sure you go through a BITOG site sponsor. Thanks!
 
Originally Posted By: A_Harman
The 10w30 is labeled SH, but even it exceeds SH levels of Phos. I'm still trying to figure that one out.


SH is an obsolete specification, so one cannot even get licensing for it. It's just a claim to meet, so I guess they can put in whatever they want.
 
The thick oil went out years ago...for just the reasons you mentioned.
Most any diesel 15W40 would be great for your engine...without the need to spend top dollar...but if it makes you FEEL better.
eek.gif
 
Well since its a roller you dont need a super amount of zddp, and since I assume you have a carb instead of fuel injection, synthetics longer drain intervals are out the window due to the heavier fuel dilution inherant to carbs.

Id say run a 10w30 or 15w40 HDEO and call it good.
 
Synthetics hold up exceptionally well to fuel dilution and they have fared extremely well in our use. There is also no need to run a 15W40...yesterdays mashed potatoes.....much too thick !
 
Originally Posted By: CMMeadAM
Synthetics hold up exceptionally well to fuel dilution and they have fared extremely well in our use. There is also no need to run a 15W40...yesterdays mashed potatoes.....much too thick !


Well if it isnt broke, dont fix it. And while synthetics stand up better sometimes to dilution, if they cost 3x as much, but only go 1.5 times as long, then they arent worth it. Id do a syn run with how he drives it, and see what the UOA shows. I can buy 10w30 semi syn HDEO with about 1300ppm of Zinc for about 3 bucks per quart. Hard to beat that for a carb'ed v8 street motor.
 
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Synthetics not only perform better under fuel dilution situations, they are much better at start-up and high heat.
And, no, they don't cost the exaggerated 3X as much. The cost
of dino is getting close to synthetics these days.
To each his/her own !
 
If you are running some synthetics it sure is more cost effective. For instance if you go with Quaker State Ultimate durability versus Green Bottle, but I am talking the boutique hi perf synthetics that run 10 bucks a bottle when I can get sub 3 dollar syn blen HDEO.
 
Originally Posted By: CMMeadAM
Synthetics hold up exceptionally well to fuel dilution and they have fared extremely well in our use.


That's definitely reassuring. The old F-150 will be used mostly for winter, and a high ZDDP 0w30 HDEO might be a cost effective option, but I'll have to do some checking. 10w30 HDEO with an oil pan heater is not out of the question, either.
wink.gif
 
thats what i like about this site. i can allways learn here.after reading you guys, i wish i knew as much as i wish i did.
 
Originally Posted By: Robenstein
If you are running some synthetics it sure is more cost effective. For instance if you go with Quaker State Ultimate durability versus Green Bottle, but I am talking the boutique hi perf synthetics that run 10 bucks a bottle when I can get sub 3 dollar syn blen HDEO.



10 bucks a bottle is nothing compared to the cost of a high performance engine.
 
Originally Posted By: postjeeprcr
Originally Posted By: Robenstein
If you are running some synthetics it sure is more cost effective. For instance if you go with Quaker State Ultimate durability versus Green Bottle, but I am talking the boutique hi perf synthetics that run 10 bucks a bottle when I can get sub 3 dollar syn blen HDEO.



10 bucks a bottle is nothing compared to the cost of a high performance engine.


Its also not needed if the 4 buck a quart oil returns excellent UOA numbers. Just like we have seen in the bike UOA, the 4 dollar a quart VR1 dino returns better wear numbers in twin cam motors than 15 dollar syntetics. Money does not equal performance when it comes to oils.
 
When you run a fleet synthetics would seem to give you a slight edge in protection against the inevitable failures you will experience.
 
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