Challenge of Low Volume EVs

[Andrew1972]

An unfortunate challenge of low volume old EVs where no aftermarket or refurbishment exists. I feel for a buyer who risks an old EV. My thoughts are old EV's once this shortage stops will cost what an old high end Audi/MB/Alpha/Jag does because everyone is too chicken to buy one knowing battery is replacement is lurking.

Someone will fill this niche likely and refurb batteries on a volume seller.

Cape Coral man received $30k estimate for electric car battery replacement

A Cape Coral man is charged up, after he took his vehicle in for a repair and received an estimate for nearly $30,000.

abc-7.com

 

[demarpaint]

The more I read up on them the less I like them.

 

[atikovi]

The Volt has a gas engine for when the batteries are depleted. Why can't he continue driving on that?

 

[Cujet]

The Volt has a gas engine for when the batteries are depleted. Why can't he continue driving on that?

The Volt is, IMHO, the best EV design around. I truly think GM should have expanded that lineup and refined it into awesomeness. Although, it is good to note that the older Volts are now needing battery replacements. The battery itself is around $9K.

 

[atikovi]

You can get 1st gen Honda Insight batteries rebuilt with new NiMH cells for $1300. Only a matter of time before they do that for newer cars.

 

[LazyDog]

The Volt has a gas engine for when the batteries are depleted. Why can't he continue driving on that?

The engine in the Volt is just a generator to charge the batteries, basically it not even hook up the trans or axles!

 

[Vercingetorix]

I had to sell my Bugatti because new tires were going cost me $42,000.

 

[atikovi]

The engine in the Volt is just a generator to charge the batteries, basically it not even hook up the trans or axles!

I know that. Can't the generator put out enough juice to drive the car?

 

[eljefino]

So the guy got one estimate and gave up.

Here's a reddit thread that covers a lot of bases.

 

[JohnnyG]

I know that. Can't the generator put out enough juice to drive the car?

Actually it does, but the economy is now out the window. The battery load would be detrimental to the driving experience, an no regenerative charging or braking.
Using the VOLT in this article as an example is a bad choice. The car has been out of production for so long, batteries are no longer available, at least new ones aren't.
I did see where (long ago) someone was refurbishing them, since the whole pack can be disassembled into its individual cells (pouches?). Will NEVER be able to do that with a Tesla, particularly the ones with the structural battery.

 

[atikovi]

Actually it does, but the economy is now out the window. The battery load would be detrimental to the driving experience, an no regenerative charging or braking.

Well sure, but almost nobody is going to spend $9,000 to replace the battery, so if running it on a gas as an alternative to scraping it is the option, most will keep running it on gas. It still gets 40 mpg if I recall the stats.

 

[JohnnyG]

Well sure, but almost nobody is going to spend $9,000 to replace the battery, so if running it on a gas as an alternative to scraping it is the option, most will keep running it on gas. It still gets 40 mpg if I recall the stats.

Maybe. I've known (heard of) people that owned a Volt, and never plugged it in. A car too advanced for people to understand won't get many rave reviews.
I'm saying that once the battery FAILS, it may not even get 30 mpg, and who knows what other issues that might cause? Fire? Burnt out inverter? The possibilities are anyone's guess.

 

[2heeldrive]

A total of 158,000 Volts were sold. That's not really a "low volume" car is it?

EV batteries don't wear out, they age out. They last 8 to 10 years and are done. There are going to be a lot of very unhappy owners out there when they find out the battery they need will cost more than the car is worth ( if it is even available). With current technology, EV's are disposable, just like every other rechargeable device.

 

[2heeldrive]

Maybe. I've known (heard of) people that owned a Volt, and never plugged it in. A car too advanced for people to understand won't get many rave reviews.
I'm saying that once the battery FAILS, it may not even get 30 mpg, and who knows what other issues that might cause? Fire? Burnt out inverter? The possibilities are anyone's guess.

The Volt is an EV with a range extender. It depends 100% on the battery. Once the battery fails, the car is done.

 

[UncleDave]

I wonder how many mile on the car and cycles on the battery?

 

[Cujet]

The engine in the Volt is just a generator to charge the batteries, basically it not even hook up the trans or axles!

Not so. The engine drives the wheels directly when at higher speeds. No transmission.

Despite what people think, Lithium battery technology is very well refined and battery lifespan is well understood. 10 years is about the time at which batteries start getting replaced. The Volt manages battery charge and depth of discharge in the "ideal" range, in an attempt at maximizing lifespan. Even so, as mentioned above, time is more of a factor than cycles are.

EDIT: It's also quite a job to replace a Volt battery. Expect $10K.

FWIW, $10K worth of gas in a 35mpg car such as an Altima, = 90,000 miles at just under $4 per gallon, or 100K miles at $3.50/gal.

 

[SC Maintenance]

I know that. Can't the generator put out enough juice to drive the car?

My guess is not likely with zero battery charge / shorted batter - reason for my guess is electric motors have a surge current requirement when starting from stopped that can be 3X max operation current. So you probably don't need that healthy a battery, but you probably need some battery - enough to provide a very short term (like a couple seconds at most) current boost to get moving.

The engine is not exactly connected to the drivetrain. There is a special clutch that will engage the engine to the drivetrain directly once at speed, but there is no traditional transmission so that only happens once your already moving.

For running things off portable generators they sell a special capacitor that will give a really quick boost - so for example you can start your RV's AC and then it can run directly off a generator that maybe isn't powerful enough to start it. Perhaps something like that could be retrofitted?

 

[E365]

It’s my belief that GM Ultium vehicles will be the best platform EV if you’re concerned about replaceability, serviceability, and possibly even upgradeability.

A million+ vehicles will all be using the exact same replaceable modules. Finding used or even new modules for pack rebuilding will be pretty easy. Most likely will become the default choice for aftermarket EV conversions too.

Not unlike current transmission rebuild shops, there will be official (or unofficial) GM Ultium battery rebuild shops

GM claims you theoretically will be able to upgrade your pack with future new chemistry modules, including solid state. I have my doubts on that though

 

[JohnnyG]

Not so. The engine drives the wheels directly when at higher speeds. No transmission.

Despite what people think, Lithium battery technology is very well refined and battery lifespan is well understood. 10 years is about the time at which batteries start getting replaced. The Volt manages battery charge and depth of discharge in the "ideal" range, in an attempt at maximizing lifespan. Even so, as mentioned above, time is more of a factor than cycles are.

EDIT: It's also quite a job to replace a Volt battery. Expect $10K.

FWIW, $10K worth of gas in a 35mpg car such as an Altima, = 90,000 miles at just under $4 per gallon, or 100K miles at $3.50/gal.

Like I said, very complicated system. The car will drive to its (speed limited) 99 - 100 mph without the engine even turning on, so the idea of it driving direct from the engine at "higher speed" is out the window.
What actually happens is, say your climbing a mountain, or driving along on battery and your speed falls below 55 mph. The engine will rev to charge the battery as much as it can, but if the speed still falls below that set point the engine will connect to the driveline directly through a type of transmission similar to the disconnect used in the Prius.

 

[zzyzzx]

One thing that I also hate about EV's is when the model is EV only. If you get a car that's mass produced, but has an EV variant, at least the non-EV related parts are going to be readily available.