CARB rejects VW's proposal

[HTSS_TR]

VW is in real trouble, California Air Resources Board rejects VW's proposal for fixing cheating diesel engines.

Quote:
In its press release, CARB cites three reasons for the rejection: "gaps and a lack of sufficient detail," a lack of "enough information for a technical evaluation," and — perhaps most [censored] — a claim that "the proposals do not adequately address overall impacts on vehicle performance, emissions and safety." That last one could substantially trip Volkswagen up, because if it can't sufficiently address the cheats through a fix, it could ultimately be forced to buy back vehicles at substantial expense. (CARB says that the rejection allows for "a broader array of potential remedies.")


http://www.theverge.com/2016/1/12/10755936/carb-rejects-vw-diesel-cheat-fix-proposal

 

[javacontour]

It reads like VW said "We'll fix them" and CARB was left wanting with respect to specifics.

 

[The motor guy]

Originally Posted By: javacontour
It reads like VW said "We'll fix them" and CARB was left wanting with respect to specifics.


Why don't they just pull out of California? lol That's the only state engines have to be carb compliant I think, maybe and a couple others.

 

[kschachn]

Yeah by definition California is the only state with a CARB

 

[Quattro Pete]

Originally Posted By: motor_oil_madman
Originally Posted By: javacontour
It reads like VW said "We'll fix them" and CARB was left wanting with respect to specifics.


Why don't they just pull out of California? lol That's the only state engines have to be carb compliant I think, maybe and a couple others.

LOL. CARB stands for California Air Resources Board.

As far as I know, VAG certifies to 50 states these days, so what gets agreed upon on Cali will be applicable to the rest of the US.

 

[IndyIan]

I think NYS and couple others get cars that are CARB compliant? I think Ontario was thinking about synching up emissions standards with California as well.
Part of our province is awash with cars and urban sprawl so emission standards actually effect public health.

 

[Quattro Pete]

In case you haven't heard it, NPR interviewed VW's CEO a few days ago...

Quote:

NPR: You said this was a technical problem, but the American people feel this is not a technical problem, this is an ethical problem that's deep inside the company. How do you change that perception in the U.S.?

Matthias Mueller: Frankly spoken, it was a technical problem. We made a default, we had a ... not the right interpretation of the American law. And we had some targets for our technical engineers, and they solved this problem and reached targets with some software solutions which haven't been compatible to the American law. That is the thing. And the other question you mentioned — it was an ethical problem? I cannot understand why you say that.

NPR: Because Volkswagen, in the U.S., intentionally lied to EPA regulators when they asked them about the problem before it came to light.

Mueller: We didn't lie. We didn't understand the question first. And then we worked since 2014 to solve the problem. And we did it together and it was a default of VW that it needed such a long time.


This is going to take a while...


http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2...ontent=20160111

 

[MNgopher]

Saw the same discussion that the VW CEO was trying to play this off as a misunderstanding. If that's the route VW is going to try to take on its way out from under this, yikes!

Comes across to me as being well, we just didn't understand Oops... Does anyone really believe that to be true?

 

[Nate1979]

^^^ Why does it feel like the story is changing as we move along. First they didn't know about it and had to get to the bottom of who did what, now it was a design feature and they just didn't understand the law? Do they expect people to believe that?

 

[jaj]

Originally Posted By: kschachn
Yeah by definition California is the only state with a CARB

Yeah, yeah, yeah - we know - every other state is fuel injected, right?

The question I keep wondering about is how long will the state authorities allow individual VW owners to continue to operate non-compliant vehicles? It seems to me that that's where the real risk is - even if VW comes up with a solution, individual vehicle owners will have to make sure that their vehicle is compliant. If not, they could be in some form of trouble. If VW files for bankruptcy, for instance, the vehicles wouldn't meet spec and the owners would be stranded. Not something I want to consider, but hey, it could happen.

 

[HTSS_TR]

All automakers but VW understand the US emission law. VW needs to hire more lawyers to interpret various country's emission laws.

 

[djb]

Wow, I can almost hear Cartman saying "I misunderstood the rules"

 

[pbm]

It seems like VW is changing their story as they go along...I would be even less likely to ever buy a VW now.

 

[javacontour]

Maybe CARB should just de-certify all VW products until they can prove they really understand the rules.

After all, don't manufacturers simply self-certify that their products meet the standards. If they said they didn't understand, seems like CARB needs to halt sales until VW can prove they understand and anything they sell does indeed meet the standards as intended.

 

[sciphi]

They didn't understand that the cars had to meet standards both in the lab and out on the road? That's a poor answer. C'mon, they need a better excuse than "we read the rules too literally".

 

[GiveMeAVowel]

While I agree that VW must abide by CARB and EPA emissions laws, this whole issue is a "NON-issue".

I'd still consider buying a new TDI when they return, if I owned one of the current cars affected by the issue I'd do NOTHING if at all possible. My guess is that the owners of these vehicles will be given a special exemption to take the onus off the customer, as they had no hand in the problem to begin with.

 

[eljefino]

Originally Posted By: sciphi
They didn't understand that the cars had to meet standards both in the lab and out on the road? That's a poor answer. C'mon, they need a better excuse than "we read the rules too literally".


Yeah everyone wastes engineers' time and the company money by having them write code to put it in "treadmill/ certifying mode" if the rear ABS sensors see no movement.

 

[Ethan1]

My car's fine

 

[wemay]

Originally Posted By: GiveMeAVowel
While I agree that VW must abide by CARB and EPA emissions laws, this whole issue is a "NON-issue".

I'd still consider buying a new TDI when they return, if I owned one of the current cars affected by the issue I'd do NOTHING if at all possible. My guess is that the owners of these vehicles will be given a special exemption to take the onus off the customer, as they had no hand in the problem to begin with.


Apparently the Government(s) feel it "IS A BIG ISSUE" Not just the US. This makes it a little important.

 

[wemay]

Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
In case you haven't heard it, NPR interviewed VW's CEO a few days ago...

Quote:

NPR: You said this was a technical problem, but the American people feel this is not a technical problem, this is an ethical problem that's deep inside the company. How do you change that perception in the U.S.?

Matthias Mueller: Frankly spoken, it was a technical problem. We made a default, we had a ... not the right interpretation of the American law. And we had some targets for our technical engineers, and they solved this problem and reached targets with some software solutions which haven't been compatible to the American law. That is the thing. And the other question you mentioned — it was an ethical problem? I cannot understand why you say that.

NPR: Because Volkswagen, in the U.S., intentionally lied to EPA regulators when they asked them about the problem before it came to light.

Mueller: We didn't lie. We didn't understand the question first. And then we worked since 2014 to solve the problem. And we did it together and it was a default of VW that it needed such a long time.


This is going to take a while...


http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2...ontent=20160111



He then came back and blamed the crowd noise for misunderstanding the question...LOL



http://europe.autonews.com/article/20160...ng-on-technical

VW CEO Mueller blunders by blaming emissions rigging on 'technical problem'

In an interview with National Public Radio at the Detroit auto show, Mueller said VW "didn’t lie" to regulators when first asked about irregularities between test and real-life emissions in its diesel cars.

The issue, related to rigging engines to cheat on emissions tests, was instead caused by "a technical problem" and stemmed from a misinterpretation of U.S. law, the CEO said, appearing to downplay the company’s role in actively deceiving regulators.

Mueller then questioned the reporter's assertion that Americans believe there are ethical issues within the company: "I cannot understand why you say that."

VW asked for a second chance after the public radio network aired the comments, which were made at a VW event Sunday evening, on its "Morning Edition" program, a staple of the commute for many U.S. professionals. Mueller apologized in the follow-up interview on Monday, citing noisy surroundings in the first conversation.

"We fully accept the violation," he said. "There is no doubt about it," and the company is doing its "utmost" to resolve the issue.