Car Reviewers

Originally Posted by Carmudgeon


BMW is very stingy with its technical support, but ironically, that makes it one of the easiest brands to obtain such information for, given its enthusiastic owner base.

The factory ETK parts catalogs have been readily available online at least two decades, and the TIS repair information for models up to a current G-series is online as well, at least unofficially. Officially, TIS subscriptions are available in daily, monthly, and annual increments.

The ETM wiring diagrams and EBA accessories installation instructions aren't as easy to find, but can be found.

And in situations where those sources aren't sufficient, the Bentley manuals or the owner forums can fill in.

Honestly, anybody who has used the TIS repair instructions will tell you it's often of limited value, terse, and not very illuminating.

Granted, that's not the same as being able to walk into a Honda or Volvo dealer, and have them hand you a thick tome over the parts counter, but I don't know if they even still do that, but there's hardly an information vacuum, at least when it comes to BMW, even if it may not come from official channels.

In terms of parts, component-level availability for things like gearboxes may not be what it used to be, but try walking into some other brand's dealer and asking for something random for a 25-year old model, and not having them give you a funny look.


Most of the service info is now built into ISTA. Not uncommon at all for German brands - the service info is built into the scan tool and the test plan for a particular fault.
 
Originally Posted by Eddie
I much preview a review by CR who get information on 150+ vehicle model than asking one neighbor. Ed


This. Their reliability data for vehicles is unmatched because it comes from thousands and thousands of actual owner surveys. I see a lot of people rip on CR because they just don't want to believe that their favorite brand or model of vehicle is inferior quality-wise to another.
 
Originally Posted by Cdn17Sport6MT
Originally Posted by borgward
...No(t to) mention that you can no longer buy a service manual or optical disc from some manufacturers...



This SO p*sses me off. BMW is one of the worst in this respect that I'm aware of. That and no spare parts / (effectively) non-repairable manual transmissions.Really a shame because (for me) there are many things to like when it comes to BMW's (YMMV).

I have a '17 Mazda6 - and the factory workshop manual is REALLY complete. Very impresed.


Technically Mercedes doesn't have a service manual either. But the entire parts lookup and repair manual is available for download on eBay for around $10. It's just EPC and the WIS. There's also a knock off version of DAS/Xentry which you can get for around $600-$1000 that's the full dealer diagnostic system although with lots of code readers out there reading all subsystems, it's not really worth it to get unless you want to use it to make specific changes that a code reader won't be able to do.
 
Originally Posted by borgward
Car reviewers like Consumers reports, are out of their league on reviewing cars. Their yardstick is will it get down the road 3 years. They fail to mention that the water pump is driven by the camshaft chain or belt and will require major trouble or expense to repair. How easy to change the oil filter, and other maintenance jobs that should be easy to do. No mention that you can no longer buy a service manual or optical disc from some manufacturers.

Seeing how most vehicles come with a huge display screen on the dash, they could just have warning codes popup on screen so you know exactly what's going on.


You are hyper focused on something the average buyer does not think or consider maintenance. A dealer does that. Not out of their league just not focusing on what minority cares about.
 
Originally Posted by MParr
I used to do a lot of purchasing based on CR reviews. Not any more. I've been bitten by buying their recommended products.


Yes, me too, I agree.

I pretty much buy the car I want now, yes, I do check the Consumer Reports survey guides to see repair history on the car over a number of years.
I only really care about "major" engine transmission problems of which there are few.
Its also nice to read a review to get thoughts on handling ect.

But after reading up on it you need to pick out the things important to you and disregard the rest. No longer trust a single source, a blanket glowing review from CR is nothing more then the feelings of the writers.
 
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Originally Posted by The Critic
Originally Posted by Carmudgeon


BMW is very stingy with its technical support, but ironically, that makes it one of the easiest brands to obtain such information for, given its enthusiastic owner base.

The factory ETK parts catalogs have been readily available online at least two decades, and the TIS repair information for models up to a current G-series is online as well, at least unofficially. Officially, TIS subscriptions are available in daily, monthly, and annual increments.

The ETM wiring diagrams and EBA accessories installation instructions aren't as easy to find, but can be found.

And in situations where those sources aren't sufficient, the Bentley manuals or the owner forums can fill in.

Honestly, anybody who has used the TIS repair instructions will tell you it's often of limited value, terse, and not very illuminating.

Granted, that's not the same as being able to walk into a Honda or Volvo dealer, and have them hand you a thick tome over the parts counter, but I don't know if they even still do that, but there's hardly an information vacuum, at least when it comes to BMW, even if it may not come from official channels.

In terms of parts, component-level availability for things like gearboxes may not be what it used to be, but try walking into some other brand's dealer and asking for something random for a 25-year old model, and not having them give you a funny look.


Most of the service info is now built into ISTA. Not uncommon at all for German brands - the service info is built into the scan tool and the test plan for a particular fault.


There are ways around that as well. Of course Hayes and Bentley manuals have been available for years.
 
The long term tests are a move in the right direction for sure. I believe they buy the cars themselves. Well, at least C&D does, maybe???

But then they only have them for about a year and what, maybe 30k miles. Enough to let you know how this one car did while still under warranty.

At least the CR owner survey does is give you more than one data point. Now we can go over the good and bad surrounding that data. But it's still more than one car.

So the upside of the long term test is that you get more testing. The downsides are it's still limited. It's limited in duration and limited in the number of vehicles tested. One vehicle doesn't make a trend or data. It's a well documented anecdote.

Just better written (we hope) than what you might hear from your neighbor telling you about his experience with his new car.

Originally Posted by 97prizm
As someone with automotive material published places like Motorweek and CarandDriver do have long term test vehicles and write about them.
 
Would it really influence your purchase (new or used) any differently if the review said something like:

"Our data shows this vehicle will have little to no mechanical issues for the first 5 years. Serviceable fluids and components may be difficult to access and require a little extra time and labor to replace."

versus

"Our data shows this vehicle is prone to repeated mechanical concerns. Serviceable fluids and components are relatively easy to access and straightforward to replace."


Are you going to take a chance with the problem prone vehicle just because they claim it is easy to fix, or are you going to choose the more problem-free vehicle even though it is harder to fix when it does break? I know which one I would choose. I don't care how easy it is to service the car, if it is prone to issues I don't want to waste my time with it.
 
I prefer the You Tube video reviews to print anymore. There are some excellent sources out there. Autogefühl is one example.
 
Originally Posted by MParr
I used to do a lot of purchasing based on CR reviews. Not any more. I've been bitten by buying their recommended products.

Me too M.
 
A new car review's only purpose is to sell new cars. That's it! Reviewers who actually have the chance to touch a new vehicle are not allowed to put a wrench to them, few even lift the hood.

You won't get any comprehensive feedback for at least a year, and you won't get that feedback from the usual review streams. There are sites dedicated to documenting the issues that every single year/make/model of vehicle has, this is where you will find the useful info on whether or not to purchase a particular vehicle.

I went through this 18 months ago when I bought my vehicle. Once I found an eligible vehicle, I'd check what knocks it had against it and whether or not I could live with them should I decide to purchase said vehicle.
 
I think some of us don't understand that CU vehicle reviews are based on owners responses and the results are a statistical value ie. you have a 4% chance, (4 out of 100 vehicles), of having brake issues with this model vehicle. CU is very excellent and they do have engineers working with vehicles. A lot of goofy comments here that aren't reality. The end. Ed
 
Originally Posted by Eddie
I think some of us don't understand that CU vehicle reviews are based on owners responses and the results are a statistical value ie. you have a 4% chance, (4 out of 100 vehicles), of having brake issues with this model vehicle. CU is very excellent and they do have engineers working with vehicles. A lot of goofy comments here that aren't reality. The end. Ed

CU?
 
Originally Posted by Quattro Pete
Originally Posted by Eddie
I think some of us don't understand that CU vehicle reviews are based on owners responses ...
CU?
That was correct.

Their reviews are based on a combination of owners' reports of experience with "frequency of repair" of recent similar vehicles and testing of new models---not the former alone.
 
Originally Posted by Quattro Pete
Originally Posted by Eddie
I think some of us don't understand that CU vehicle reviews are based on owners responses and the results are a statistical value ie. you have a 4% chance, (4 out of 100 vehicles), of having brake issues with this model vehicle. CU is very excellent and they do have engineers working with vehicles. A lot of goofy comments here that aren't reality. The end. Ed

CU?


Consumer's Union (CU) is who publishes Consumer Reports.
 
Originally Posted by SeaJay
In other words, CR does not have a fully functioning crystal ball that they can use to predict the future.


I dont think CR is predicting anything.
Lets be practical for a minute, as with forum threads things get "switched" around as far as the subject. CR is NOT predicting in their annual auto surveys, its owners of the vehicles going back to owners as long as 8 years reporting back in an annual survey. (I repeat this below, jumping around, as its early and drinking coffee and going to work )

If looking for a use vehicle, there is only one source available IF you care to see overall how the vehicle has been doing long term. This has nothing to do with Consumer Reports thoughts and what they think.
Consumer reports publishes a yearly survey of all its vehicle owners and what trouble they may have. Its as simple as that, a survey and you can look up over the long term going back (I forgot exact amount of year) 8 years. Certainly more accurate and scientific then threads in BITOG or YOUTUBE one sided presentations by YouTube self proclaimed experts.

Its nice, at a glance, to know the vehicle you are thinking of buying or already bought, that with a 60 second glance you can see owners of that vechicle not reporting any major engine or transmission problems? how do we get into all this other stuff about what CR thinks? There annual issue is a survey of vehicle owners NOT CR thoughts.

Its pretty accurate too, look at long term Fiesta for example, going back many years you will clearly see major issues with the transmission, then around 2014/15 all of a sudden you will see a jump up to no longer a major issue, well, guess what, that is the year the issue was addressed by Ford.
 
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