Can I make a Purolator tear?

[RooflessVW]

What do you think? No filter bypass on my car and the oil pump bypass is 5bar.

Do you think that'd be enough to induce tearing? Couple of cold starts with an Xw-50?

Do you think it is less a function of Delta P and more a function of time?

I'm willing to chuck a few red and blue cans at the experiment if you think it is worth while.

It will take me some time to put on mileage, I only average ~3k/yr.

 

[SubieRubyRoo]

I'd almost be willing to donate a jug of Motul 15W-50 if you were to document this properly and had a third party cut it open to eliminate bias or tampering concerns...

I still don't know what to think... I almost think the media has to be damaged during assembly or something like that... otherwise, the test would be really simple.

Buy a new filter, cut it open, disassemble the filter and put the media in front of a controlled-force oil stream, and then jack up the PSI until the media tears. Considering a large portion of the torn Purolators are models that have 8-12# bypasses, that to me would make me think you'd lift the bypass long before ANY media should tear. But I'm not a filter manufacturer.

 

[SirTanon]

...

....

.. I don't think it would take much to make a Purolator tear..

 

[slacktide_bitog]

You don't have to work that hard to induce the tearing. All you have to do is use the filter. It will tear quickly, in many cases almost immediately.Bonus if it is a 14610

 

[SubieRubyRoo]

I just sent 53' Stude a virgin L14610 so maybe we'll see if he'll run a test on it.

 

[joekingcorvette]

Go ahead and try it and let us know.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted by rooflessVW
Do you think it is less a function of Delta P and more a function of time?


Absolutely a function of delta-p across the media. If you put any oil filter without a bypass valve on your engine that doesn't have an in-block bypass valve, you could probably damage about any oil filter id you revved the engine high with cold thick oil.

 

[53' Stude]

Originally Posted by SubieRubyRoo
I just sent 53' Stude a virgin L14610 so maybe we'll see if he'll run a test on it.


Yeah, but i cant run a 14610 on a Toyota

 

[Ablebody]

I'm running a 14610 right now so far a few k miles. Probably gonna leave it on for 6k. I will be surprised if it's not perfectly fine when i take it off. However if it's not I'll be sure and feed the fanatical Luster's of hate around here with images of a failed Purolator.
It will make their weeks sure lol. It's a white one bit must be actually the same as the red ones because it doesn't have holes I'm the center tube.

 

[RooflessVW]

I can run the 14006 and 25288.

Thinking I'll get 2 each of each tier, so 8 filters total. I'll cut 4 open as a baseline and because everyone loves seeing virigin filters.

I'll have to come up with the "torture test" for the other 4.

The car is currently filled with fresh 5W-40. That'll be the real sacrifice if I dump the sump for some 20W-50.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted by rooflessVW
I can run the 14006 and 25288.

Thinking I'll get 2 each of each tier, so 8 filters total. I'll cut 4 open as a baseline and because everyone loves seeing virigin filters.

I'll have to come up with the "torture test" for the other 4.

The car is currently filled with fresh 5W-40. That'll be the real sacrifice if I dump the sump for some 20W-50.


The real torture test might also be to your engine. I'd be careful running a filter with no way for it to bypass.

 

[RooflessVW]

It's a well-tested part installed on the shop's own $20k+ rebuilds and all manner of M96/97 engine. If there's a man that knows these engines it's Jake Raby and I trust my engine to his parts.

It's a safety net. If (when) the IMS in my car starts shedding metal it will be caught by the filter instead of bypassing the notoriously weak factory filter bypass. The factory bypass spring is very low at 7# and they're known to fail entirely and be in constant bypass, as mine was.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted by rooflessVW
It's a well-tested part installed on the shop's own $20k+ rebuilds and all manner of M96/97 engine. If there's a man that knows these engines it's Jake Raby and I trust my engine to his parts.

It's a safety net. If (when) the IMS in my car starts shedding metal it will be caught by the filter instead of bypassing the notoriously weak factory filter bypass. The factory bypass spring is very low at 7# and they're known to fail entirely and be in constant bypass, as mine was.


I was under the impression that your engine doesn't have a built-in filter bypass valve. And you want to run filters that don't have a bypass valve - or do these filters have a bypass valve? Maybe I'm not getting the whole picture.

 

[RooflessVW]

The Porsche M96/97 engine originally uses a cartridge filter with a filter bypass built into the plastic cap. Time has shown the valve to be weak, and it can fail completely open with age.

LN Engineering developed an adapter to use early LS oil filters, which do not have a bypass valve built in. The factory filter cap (and bypass) is removed and a canister filter with no bypass valve is installed. LN recommends the Napa Gold 1042.

It is also recommended to cut the oil filter open at each service, regardless of the filter used, to inspect for debris. The Napa 104, M1-107, and K&N HP-1007 have all shown to hold up well in service. If one was torn or damaged it would have been made apparent by now.


Because of all this, I think my setup would make any filter tearing issue apparent fairly immediately if the was specifically a Delta P issue and not a function of time. The oil has nowhere to go but through the filter.

 

[RooflessVW]

Here you can see how an M1 filter held up to my setup.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted by rooflessVW
The Porsche M96/97 engine originally uses a cartridge filter with a filter bypass built into the plastic cap. Time has shown the valve to be weak, and it can fail completely open with age.

LN Engineering developed an adapter to use early LS oil filters, which do not have a bypass valve built in. The factory filter cap (and bypass) is removed and a canister filter with no bypass valve is installed. LN recommends the Napa Gold 1042.

It is also recommended to cut the oil filter open at each service, regardless of the filter used, to inspect for debris. The Napa 104, M1-107, and K&N HP-1007 have all shown to hold up well in service. If one was torn or damaged it would have been made apparent by now.


Because of all this, I think my setup would make any filter tearing issue apparent fairly immediately if the was specifically a Delta P issue and not a function of time. The oil has nowhere to go but through the filter.


Ok, I got the full picture now ... thanks for the clarification. Why didn't LN Engineering recommend a filter with a bypass valve instead of one without, thereby leaving no way for a filter to bypass if the delta-p across it got too high.

 

[RooflessVW]

Because any bypass event if the bearing is shedding material ends up being catastrophic - metal is sent thoughout and you need a full rebuild. It's also why at the very least I'm cutting my filter open every 6 months.

It's all risk mitigation.

I have considered switching to the Fram HP20 as a sort of balance - it has a 20# bypass spring and free-flowing media.