Camaro "How its Made" TV show Observations

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Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
Without the Density Altitude there is no way to compare 1/4 mile times.

FWIW all the rags tested my sig car at around 13 to 13.1. They claim they "correct" their times...


Right it was just a something to go off of.

Most magazine times are off to the slow side.

Most LS1 F-bodies run low 13's I remember Motor Trend couldn't get better than 13.80 at ATCO. They suck.
 
Originally Posted By: neo3
Originally Posted By: Bladecutter
Originally Posted By: dishdude
Originally Posted By: bdcardinal

I like the new Camaros, but I would only get a V8.


That's the only way a muscle car should be equipped.


A Camaro is not now, nor has it ever been, a muscle car.
It's a pony car.

A muscle car is typically a FAMILY SEDAN that has had a large engine option shoveled into it.

You know, a Dodge Charger, with the 6.2 liter option.
Or a Buick Skylark with the 455 CI Buick engine, with Stage II heads.

Those are muscle cars.

Camaro, Mustang, and Challenger are all Pony cars.

BC.


Muscle vs Pony: sort of an arbitrary distinction really, maybe those terms should just belong to an historical period that ended in the early 70's. And how about the fastback Mustang Steve McQueen drove in the movie Bullet - you'd have to call that a muscle car not a pony car (and of course the 68 Charger from the same movie was a muscle car).


Why would you have to call that particular Mustang a muscle car? The Mustang and Camaro are both "pony cars", a direct derivative from the Mustang/horse/pony name, which defined the category. The Camaro was designed to compete with the Mustang so it was in the same category. GM then got the whole family involved (Firebird/Trans-Am) and Ford brought Mercury into it (Capri), but it always was basically just about the Mustang and the F-body cars, the Challenger is and was too bloody big to be a Pony car IMHO, maybe the 'cuda?

Anyways, most of them fall into the muscle car category except for the Camaro and the Mustang. The Charger/300/Challenger (despite the last one being a 2-door) are all Muscle cars. Just like the big old Chevelle was.
 
I was just reading the new Car and Driver and saw something that made me think of the silly muscle car/pony car arguing in this thread.

This is from a Dodge ad. Looks like Dodge considers the Challenger a "muscle car."

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Originally Posted By: horse123
I smell a Mustang suckoff

If you buy a V6 muscle car you're a tool anyway. For all I care they could make the short block out of plastic. I only care about the V8.


Ever been in a Grand National?
 
Originally Posted By: 007
Originally Posted By: horse123
I smell a Mustang suckoff

If you buy a V6 muscle car you're a tool anyway. For all I care they could make the short block out of plastic. I only care about the V8.


Ever been in a Grand National?


The guy drives a Subaru family sedan. He wouldn't know anything about real cars. His mouth has more HP than the car he drives.
 
Originally Posted By: Mr Nice
I'm surprised Dodge still makes the Viper. I rarely see any Viper on the road.


They sell. The local dealer, whenever they get them in, they are gone VERY quickly.
 
Originally Posted By: Mr Nice
I'm surprised Dodge still makes the Viper. I rarely see any Viper on the road.


I read somewhere that they will no longer be making them after this year (?)
 
Originally Posted By: 007
Originally Posted By: horse123
I smell a Mustang suckoff

If you buy a V6 muscle car you're a tool anyway. For all I care they could make the short block out of plastic. I only care about the V8.


Ever been in a Grand National?


I have. It ran 10's with a bad driver on drag radials. Never take them lightly in a straight line!

But it still made V6 noises, not even comparable to a nice V8 burble for me. Plus I personally prefer no gasping and wheezing noises under my hoods.

Your mileage may vary...
 
Originally Posted By: neo3
Originally Posted By: Mr Nice
I'm surprised Dodge still makes the Viper. I rarely see any Viper on the road.


I read somewhere that they will no longer be making them after this year (?)


2017 will be the last model year for the Viper. For the current generation, Dodge has sold an average of about 50 Vipers each month. From a strict numbers comparison, Chevrolet sells more than 2,000 Corvettes each month. That's 40 times more Corvettes than Vipers.

Other than the 200 or so special edition Vipers Dodge puts out each year, which very quickly get snapped up, Vipers sales are nearly non-existent.
 
Originally Posted By: MrHorspwer
Originally Posted By: neo3
Originally Posted By: Mr Nice
I'm surprised Dodge still makes the Viper. I rarely see any Viper on the road.


I read somewhere that they will no longer be making them after this year (?)


2017 will be the last model year for the Viper. For the current generation, Dodge has sold an average of about 50 Vipers each month. From a strict numbers comparison, Chevrolet sells more than 2,000 Corvettes each month. That's 40 times more Corvettes than Vipers.

Other than the 200 or so special edition Vipers Dodge puts out each year, which very quickly get snapped up, Vipers sales are nearly non-existent.


True, but there is no "pedestrian" version of the Viper; no version that is priced comparably to the base model Corvette. So this is really no surprise. Ford did somewhat the same thing with the GT. The vipers that are brought into dealers, from what I have seen, move quickly. But not a lot are brought in. I don't know if FC loses money on the car or not, but I'm sure it isn't a profit centre like the 'vette is for GM due to the low production volume.

http://www.roadandtrack.com/new-cars/future-cars/news/a29664/the-dodge-viper-is-officially-dead/

Originally Posted By: RT
We've known that the Viper couldn't survive forever—parent company Fiat Chrysler simply can't funnel resources toward an expensive and slow-selling sports car with an 8.4-liter engine when everyone else is scrambling to boost fuel economy and offer a crossover for every variety of commute. But we'll miss the steadfastly old-school Viper. In a world of increasingly user-friendly, daily-driveable supercars, the Viper has always been a brash, demanding brute. In a way, that makes it the last truly American car.


However there is this:

Originally Posted By: RT
Of course, if FCA CEO Sergio Marchionne has his way, the Viper won't stay dead forever. We always knew we liked that guy.


And of course this won't be the first time the car was discontinued.

More here:
http://www.roadandtrack.com/car-shows/de...r-could-happen/

Quote:
"Given the architectural development within the brand, there is a possibility that a new version of the Viper may surface," Marchionne said. What isn't clear is whether a new Viper would be ready in time to immediately replace the current-generation Viper, or if it would appear further down the road.

The ever pragmatic Marchionne isn't a fan of the Viper's proprietary platform, so a theoretical future Viper would likely be based on a version of the new rear-wheel-drive platform that underpins the Alfa Romeo Giulia. The Giulia, which will usher Alfa Romeo's return to mainstream U.S. sales, is reportedly delayed six months in Europe and even longer in the U.S.


So it may be back....
 
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
Originally Posted By: 007
Originally Posted By: horse123
I smell a Mustang suckoff

If you buy a V6 muscle car you're a tool anyway. For all I care they could make the short block out of plastic. I only care about the V8.


Ever been in a Grand National?


I have. It ran 10's with a bad driver on drag radials. Never take them lightly in a straight line!

But it still made V6 noises, not even comparable to a nice V8 burble for me. Plus I personally prefer no gasping and wheezing noises under my hoods.

Your mileage may vary...


A V6 will never sound like a V8 but as in the case with my 86 T Type with a Pypes exhaust it sounds more like a Hoover vacuum on steroids with a rumble! At WOT the car sounds totally different than one would expect with NO wheezing noises that I know of.
 
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The Viper is purely a track car, I maintain a few of them, They are big ovens as far as I'm concerned. I couldn't imagine wearing a fire suit & helmet in that car.
 
I am not sure why people are so upset about a blown 4 cylinder or [censored] even a world class V6 powering a performance coupe. Here is to hoping Fast Lane Car will do a comparison of the 2.0T and 3.6 (Camaro or ATS) up a mile high in Colorado, the HP spread may still give the advantage to the 3.6 but I am betting it would be very close with altitude restricting the N/A 3.6.

I find absolutely ZERO issue with a well engineered blown 4 or a well engineered V6. I know the ATS rental I had with the 2.0T was extremely quick, there was no issue getting the TCS light flashing on some spirited takeoffs. I also had the joy of driving a SRX with the 3.6 and that was an absolute pleasure with power no matter where you were on the tach, the refinement could have used some tweaking especially in a Caddy application but that thing definitely had some big balls.

I am going to go on record in preferring a well engineered pressurized 4 cylinder or well engineered naturally aspirated V6 versus a V8.
 
Originally Posted By: clinebarger
The Viper is purely a track car, I maintain a few of them, They are big ovens as far as I'm concerned. I couldn't imagine wearing a fire suit & helmet in that car.


Many laps at Homestead in them. In the old daze you burnt your leg on the side pipes and the shifter handle got so hot it burnt you!

The newer models are much more hospitable. I never wanted one because of the UPS truck sound they have. There's a place that puts huge aluminum stroker big block Chevy V8s in them and then they sound just right!
 
I recently drove a new 16 Camaro SS with the automatic transmission and was very impressed. Even the blind spots and the "in the cave" feeling I got when I drove the last generation Camaro didn't seem to be as bad in this car even though it probably was.

The only real negative was that the automatic in the car I drove seemed to hunt for the correct gear quite a bit. I have to have an automatic due to a bad left knee. I've been told that the "hunting" aspect gets better as the car learns how you drive. This car only had 34 miles on it when we began the test drive.

The duel mode exhaust also sounded very good.

As some other guys stated, the V8 version would be the only one I would be interested in even though I'm sure the V6 has plenty of power.

Wayne
 
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