Looks like GM FORCED bankruptcy on SAAB....by obstructing any deal with that Chinese company.
Bye Bye SAAB :(
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Originally Posted By: 91344George
Looks like GM FORCED bankruptcy on SAAB....by obstructing any deal with that Chinese company.
Pretty ironic...
International Capitalists prevent Chinese Communists from saving workers jobs in Democratic Sweden.The world turned upside down.
Looks like GM FORCED bankruptcy on SAAB....by obstructing any deal with that Chinese company.
Pretty ironic...
International Capitalists prevent Chinese Communists from saving workers jobs in Democratic Sweden.The world turned upside down.
I was happy until i read all that "high end Malibu and L-series" [censored] (i assume 9-3 and 9-5.)
What was the last NON-GM Saab year? 03? Ill pursue that one.
What was the last NON-GM Saab year? 03? Ill pursue that one.
Originally Posted By: 45ACP
I was happy until i read all that "high end Malibu and L-series" [censored] (i assume 9-3 and 9-5.)
What was the last NON-GM Saab year? 03? Ill pursue that one.
Calling a 9-3 and 9-5 a "high end Malibu and L-series" is just stupid and displays a great deal of ignorance. Anyone's who driven any of those cars would know the reality. Stuff in common? Sure, but Saabs were no rebadge (well except for the 9-2X and 9-7X
)
Last non-GM year was back in the early 90s I believe. GM took a signifcant ownership stake sometime back then, then 100% later in the 90s.
jeff
I was happy until i read all that "high end Malibu and L-series" [censored] (i assume 9-3 and 9-5.)
What was the last NON-GM Saab year? 03? Ill pursue that one.
Calling a 9-3 and 9-5 a "high end Malibu and L-series" is just stupid and displays a great deal of ignorance. Anyone's who driven any of those cars would know the reality. Stuff in common? Sure, but Saabs were no rebadge (well except for the 9-2X and 9-7X
Last non-GM year was back in the early 90s I believe. GM took a signifcant ownership stake sometime back then, then 100% later in the 90s.
jeff
GM took a 50% stake in Saab in 1989 and bought the rest in 2000 or thereabouts IIRC.
The 9-3 and 9-5 were certainly not rebadges. Sharing a platform doesn't mean that they're popping off Chevy badges and sticking Saab emblems in their place.
Not only that but the Epsilon platform was developed by Opel for Opel and Saab. It wasn't designed from the ground up to be a Malibu in the first place. Not that I consider that a bad thing, the Epsilon platform has earned a lot of praise.
The 9-3 and 9-5 were certainly not rebadges. Sharing a platform doesn't mean that they're popping off Chevy badges and sticking Saab emblems in their place.
Not only that but the Epsilon platform was developed by Opel for Opel and Saab. It wasn't designed from the ground up to be a Malibu in the first place. Not that I consider that a bad thing, the Epsilon platform has earned a lot of praise.
Originally Posted By: cchase
GM took a 50% stake in Saab in 1989 and bought the rest in 2000 or thereabouts IIRC.
The 9-3 and 9-5 were certainly not rebadges. Sharing a platform doesn't mean that they're popping off Chevy badges and sticking Saab emblems in their place.
Not only that but the Epsilon platform was developed by Opel for Opel and Saab. It wasn't designed from the ground up to be a Malibu in the first place. Not that I consider that a bad thing, the Epsilon platform has earned a lot of praise.
Okay, let's go back to the 9-5.
The GM2900 platform was also developed by Opel. The L-series was essentially a plastic cladded Opel Vectra. Their early advertising campaign stressed it's European heritage. All 3 cars had that odd 54° V6. The Saturn had a Saab sourced manual transmission. There's just WAY too many similarities to ignore it.
And back on the Malibu: 04-08 Malibus had uninspired exterior design, interior by Rubbermaid, and utilized the cheapest engines they could, but the chassis was good. Good enough to return on the current Malibu.
Maybe it would sting a little less for you if I said that GM took these quirky iconic uniquely Swedish cars and turned them into Opel sedans. Maybe they did buy a few more years for the marque, but they weren't the same.
GM took a 50% stake in Saab in 1989 and bought the rest in 2000 or thereabouts IIRC.
The 9-3 and 9-5 were certainly not rebadges. Sharing a platform doesn't mean that they're popping off Chevy badges and sticking Saab emblems in their place.
Not only that but the Epsilon platform was developed by Opel for Opel and Saab. It wasn't designed from the ground up to be a Malibu in the first place. Not that I consider that a bad thing, the Epsilon platform has earned a lot of praise.
Okay, let's go back to the 9-5.
The GM2900 platform was also developed by Opel. The L-series was essentially a plastic cladded Opel Vectra. Their early advertising campaign stressed it's European heritage. All 3 cars had that odd 54° V6. The Saturn had a Saab sourced manual transmission. There's just WAY too many similarities to ignore it.
And back on the Malibu: 04-08 Malibus had uninspired exterior design, interior by Rubbermaid, and utilized the cheapest engines they could, but the chassis was good. Good enough to return on the current Malibu.
Maybe it would sting a little less for you if I said that GM took these quirky iconic uniquely Swedish cars and turned them into Opel sedans. Maybe they did buy a few more years for the marque, but they weren't the same.
Spazdog, all that stuff's true but it doesn't mean the cars are the same or rebadges or anything. The Audi TT and VW Tiguan are on the same platform too.
Originally Posted By: Spazdog
Originally Posted By: cchase
GM took a 50% stake in Saab in 1989 and bought the rest in 2000 or thereabouts IIRC.
The 9-3 and 9-5 were certainly not rebadges. Sharing a platform doesn't mean that they're popping off Chevy badges and sticking Saab emblems in their place.
Not only that but the Epsilon platform was developed by Opel for Opel and Saab. It wasn't designed from the ground up to be a Malibu in the first place. Not that I consider that a bad thing, the Epsilon platform has earned a lot of praise.
Okay, let's go back to the 9-5.
The GM2900 platform was also developed by Opel. The L-series was essentially a plastic cladded Opel Vectra. Their early advertising campaign stressed it's European heritage. All 3 cars had that odd 54° V6. The Saturn had a Saab sourced manual transmission. There's just WAY too many similarities to ignore it.
And back on the Malibu: 04-08 Malibus had uninspired exterior design, interior by Rubbermaid, and utilized the cheapest engines they could, but the chassis was good. Good enough to return on the current Malibu.
Maybe it would sting a little less for you if I said that GM took these quirky iconic uniquely Swedish cars and turned them into Opel sedans. Maybe they did buy a few more years for the marque, but they weren't the same.
Can Saturn L-series and Malibu do THIS?
Originally Posted By: cchase
GM took a 50% stake in Saab in 1989 and bought the rest in 2000 or thereabouts IIRC.
The 9-3 and 9-5 were certainly not rebadges. Sharing a platform doesn't mean that they're popping off Chevy badges and sticking Saab emblems in their place.
Not only that but the Epsilon platform was developed by Opel for Opel and Saab. It wasn't designed from the ground up to be a Malibu in the first place. Not that I consider that a bad thing, the Epsilon platform has earned a lot of praise.
Okay, let's go back to the 9-5.
The GM2900 platform was also developed by Opel. The L-series was essentially a plastic cladded Opel Vectra. Their early advertising campaign stressed it's European heritage. All 3 cars had that odd 54° V6. The Saturn had a Saab sourced manual transmission. There's just WAY too many similarities to ignore it.
And back on the Malibu: 04-08 Malibus had uninspired exterior design, interior by Rubbermaid, and utilized the cheapest engines they could, but the chassis was good. Good enough to return on the current Malibu.
Maybe it would sting a little less for you if I said that GM took these quirky iconic uniquely Swedish cars and turned them into Opel sedans. Maybe they did buy a few more years for the marque, but they weren't the same.
Can Saturn L-series and Malibu do THIS?
Not to mention their model line..
Originally Posted By: 45ACP
Not to mention their model line..
Those are Saabs...circa 1987. 900s and a 9000
And in the first video, good drivers could do that in 1996 Tauruses....Tauri, whatever. It's less about the car and more about the driver at those low speeds.
Not to mention their model line..
Those are Saabs...circa 1987. 900s and a 9000
And in the first video, good drivers could do that in 1996 Tauruses....Tauri, whatever. It's less about the car and more about the driver at those low speeds.
Do they still make jets?
Originally Posted By: hardcore302
Do they still make jets?
The Saab car company and the Saab defense company have been totally seperate for a long time. The defense company makes a fighter jet called the Gripen.
Do they still make jets?
The Saab car company and the Saab defense company have been totally seperate for a long time. The defense company makes a fighter jet called the Gripen.
Originally Posted By: Spazdog
Originally Posted By: cchase
GM took a 50% stake in Saab in 1989 and bought the rest in 2000 or thereabouts IIRC.
The 9-3 and 9-5 were certainly not rebadges. Sharing a platform doesn't mean that they're popping off Chevy badges and sticking Saab emblems in their place.
Not only that but the Epsilon platform was developed by Opel for Opel and Saab. It wasn't designed from the ground up to be a Malibu in the first place. Not that I consider that a bad thing, the Epsilon platform has earned a lot of praise.
Okay, let's go back to the 9-5.
The GM2900 platform was also developed by Opel. The L-series was essentially a plastic cladded Opel Vectra. Their early advertising campaign stressed it's European heritage. All 3 cars had that odd 54° V6. The Saturn had a Saab sourced manual transmission. There's just WAY too many similarities to ignore it.
And back on the Malibu: 04-08 Malibus had uninspired exterior design, interior by Rubbermaid, and utilized the cheapest engines they could, but the chassis was good. Good enough to return on the current Malibu.
Maybe it would sting a little less for you if I said that GM took these quirky iconic uniquely Swedish cars and turned them into Opel sedans. Maybe they did buy a few more years for the marque, but they weren't the same.
Spaz, you're correct in what you say. My issue is that the topic was brought up as though it is some way of saying that they are overpriced Malibus and Saturns. They're fantastic and have some of the best FWD driving dynamics out there (something that can't be said for the Chevy or Saturn). Whether they share platforms with other cars should not detract from what they are. They are (were) great cars. Just because they used a platform shared with other makes doesn't make them bad cars. Plenty of badge engineering out there from every manufacturer.
Saab wasn't particularly cutting it using their own chassis and engines. They used GM's resources to revitalize their lineup and it worked.
You can say what you want about Saab losing its soul when GM bought it. A lot of people think BMW lost its soul when it started producing 7-series cars, that Rolls Royce and Bentley lost it when they were bought by VAG and BMW... the list goes on. They're still all great cars.
They also look great, too. On looks alone I'd gladly take a 9-3 (even a "Saturn" 9-3) over a 3 series, A4, or C-class Merc.
Originally Posted By: cchase
GM took a 50% stake in Saab in 1989 and bought the rest in 2000 or thereabouts IIRC.
The 9-3 and 9-5 were certainly not rebadges. Sharing a platform doesn't mean that they're popping off Chevy badges and sticking Saab emblems in their place.
Not only that but the Epsilon platform was developed by Opel for Opel and Saab. It wasn't designed from the ground up to be a Malibu in the first place. Not that I consider that a bad thing, the Epsilon platform has earned a lot of praise.
Okay, let's go back to the 9-5.
The GM2900 platform was also developed by Opel. The L-series was essentially a plastic cladded Opel Vectra. Their early advertising campaign stressed it's European heritage. All 3 cars had that odd 54° V6. The Saturn had a Saab sourced manual transmission. There's just WAY too many similarities to ignore it.
And back on the Malibu: 04-08 Malibus had uninspired exterior design, interior by Rubbermaid, and utilized the cheapest engines they could, but the chassis was good. Good enough to return on the current Malibu.
Maybe it would sting a little less for you if I said that GM took these quirky iconic uniquely Swedish cars and turned them into Opel sedans. Maybe they did buy a few more years for the marque, but they weren't the same.
Spaz, you're correct in what you say. My issue is that the topic was brought up as though it is some way of saying that they are overpriced Malibus and Saturns. They're fantastic and have some of the best FWD driving dynamics out there (something that can't be said for the Chevy or Saturn). Whether they share platforms with other cars should not detract from what they are. They are (were) great cars. Just because they used a platform shared with other makes doesn't make them bad cars. Plenty of badge engineering out there from every manufacturer.
Saab wasn't particularly cutting it using their own chassis and engines. They used GM's resources to revitalize their lineup and it worked.
You can say what you want about Saab losing its soul when GM bought it. A lot of people think BMW lost its soul when it started producing 7-series cars, that Rolls Royce and Bentley lost it when they were bought by VAG and BMW... the list goes on. They're still all great cars.
They also look great, too. On looks alone I'd gladly take a 9-3 (even a "Saturn" 9-3) over a 3 series, A4, or C-class Merc.
Spaz has no love for the Saab.
Originally Posted By: Win
Perhaps GM wants Saab back.
Isn't this similar to what they did with Opel; making it impractical for anyone else to acquire and then keep it for themselves?
Hmmm....would be a great way to get it cheap.....
Perhaps GM wants Saab back.
Isn't this similar to what they did with Opel; making it impractical for anyone else to acquire and then keep it for themselves?
Hmmm....would be a great way to get it cheap.....
Originally Posted By: 45ACP
Spaz has no love for the Saab.
Nothing but love and respect for the 900 Combi-Coupe with it's beautiful visibility, comfort, sport, and utility. What they did with basically half of a Triumph Stag motor (with it's myriad of cooling problems and 25,000 mile timing chain) to develop the B-engine and later the H-engine is nothing short of miraculous.
It was just a brilliant and unique automobile.
I just didn't feel that the 9-3 and 9-5 were worthy successors. Yes, they may well have been the very best of the Epsilon and GM2900 chassis but it really needs a curved windshield and a hatch to work for me
Spaz has no love for the Saab.
Nothing but love and respect for the 900 Combi-Coupe with it's beautiful visibility, comfort, sport, and utility. What they did with basically half of a Triumph Stag motor (with it's myriad of cooling problems and 25,000 mile timing chain) to develop the B-engine and later the H-engine is nothing short of miraculous.
It was just a brilliant and unique automobile.
I just didn't feel that the 9-3 and 9-5 were worthy successors. Yes, they may well have been the very best of the Epsilon and GM2900 chassis but it really needs a curved windshield and a hatch to work for me
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