Britain on hard times

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The government will take another step today towards nationalising the entire banking industry by offering to buy shares in those institutions which sign up to a scheme offering potentially unlimited insurance against losses on their assets.

In a second, and desperate attempt, to get credit flowing through the economy, ministers will try to put tougher conditions on the banks being bailed out to force them to lend more money to businesses and households.

The insurance scheme is part of a multi-layered package from the Treasury forced on the government by a deepening recession, frozen credit and the evaporation of the mortgage market.

In return for the insurance, the Treasury will demand formal contractual agreements from individual banks that they will lend more than they are currently. It will insist that the banks lend to British firms and individuals.

Officials refused to put a figure on the potential liability from the insurance scheme saying it would depend on how many banks took up the offer.

But if the scheme is to fill the void, ministers will have to expose taxpayers to billions of pounds of risk.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2009/jan/19/bail-out-banks
They want to force banks to loan to those people the government wants them to.
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The Royal Bank of Scotland was on the brink last night after the biggest loss in British corporate history sparked a collapse in its shares.

Billions of pounds were wiped from its stock market value despite the Government’s pledge to keep it afloat with more money from the taxpayer.

As Gordon Brown set out plans to increase public ownership to 70 per cent of what was once one of the world’s biggest financial conglomerates, City investors dumped the shares in a selling frenzy.

RBS, worth £75 billion only two years ago, is now valued at £4.5 billion, even though it received £32 billion from taxpayers and shareholders less than three months ago.

The bank’s plight prompted calls for the outright nationalisation of RBS, with some MPs urging the Treasury to take over its day-to-day running.

Lloyds Banking Group, another bank bailed out by the taxpayer, saw its shares plunge 34 per cent yesterday. Barclays and HSBC also fell.

The turmoil suggested that the Government’s second massive rescue package had failed to restore confidence to the financial sector. It was a graphic illustration of continued banking uncertainty that prompted calls on the Government from Labour MPs to nationalise the whole system, an idea resisted firmly by Alistair Darling, the Chancellor, last night.

The scale of losses at RBS is breathtaking. The bank, which also owns NatWest, estimated that bad debts and writedowns on past acquisitions could leave it as much as £28 billion in the red for 2008, nearly double Vodafone’s record £15 billion loss in 2006.

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George Osborne, the Shadow Chancellor, said that the taxpayer had already lost £17 billion on the Government’s investments in the banks last October. He said that in taking a stake in RBS ministers had not understood what they were buying and had not attempted to find out. “They didn’t appear to know that RBS was preparing to post the largest loss in corporate history,” Mr Osborne said.

Yesterday’s slump in bank shares overshadowed the second rescue package, which has exposed the taxpayer further to the tune of hundreds of billions of pounds in the hope of getting banks lending to big business and individuals. The Chancellor announced plans to underwrite for a fee “toxic” debt held by the banks to encourage them to be more ambitious about future lending. The terms of the Northern Rock rescue will be altered to stop it running down its mortgage lending. The Government will also increase its share in RBS from 58 per cent to 70 per cent and kick-start home loans by guaranteeing £50 billion of mortgage-backed securities.

Mr Darling announced a £50 billion scheme for the Bank of England to buy high quality private sector assets to increase funding to big companies at lower cost. He admitted that this facility could be used by the Bank’s Monetary Policy Committee as a way of meeting its inflation target. Mr Darling was effectively paving the way for “quantitative easing”, the modern day equivalent of printing money.

The overall package was given a general welcome by business and politicians, but Mr Brown and Mr Darling were criticised for failing to estimate the potential liabilities for the taxpayer from the toxic debt insurance scheme. “We need to be absolutely sure that the threat of insolvent banks does not turn into the threat of an insolvent country,” Mr Osborne said.

http://business.timesonline.co.uk/tol/bu...icle5549589.ece
This is just nuts. The survival of England is questionable.
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We are nationalizing our banks more and more everyday as well.
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Plus, they are using the guaranties as pseudo money in the HOPES that they won't need it. This is gambling with the future of their country and the same thing is happening here!
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The entire global system is in big time trouble.
 
Whats really not fair is that "They" let it get too far, and now expect the people to pay for it.
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Where's my bailout for being responsible, investing and living within my means? Seems like we always get the short end of the stick and it's starting to P. Me OFF
 
Watch our savings, 401k's and Roth's get taken over next.

"Don't worry, WE'LL take care of you."
 
We are on the same path:
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The Royal Bank of Scotland alarmed investors around the world this week with the warning its 2008 loss might top $41 billion. That spurred the British government to announce a fresh banking bailout. In the U.S., State Street Corp. — seen as one of the safer financial firms during the current turmoil because it is a custodial bank — lost more than half its value Tuesday after reporting its profits plunged and issuing a bleak forecast for 2009.

Citigroup and Bank of America Corp., which at the end of last week reported multibillion dollar fourth-quarter losses, each plunged by more than 20 percent on Tuesday. U.S. markets were closed Monday for Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. Day.

The slide in financial stocks came as investors factored in the possibility of insolvency, said Rob Lutts, president and chief investment officer of Cabot Money Management. Investors have also been pricing in expected capital infusions that will lower the value of the common stock that shareholders own.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3683270/page/2/
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Then there is Bank of America’s acquisition of Merrill Lynch, a deal skating dangerously close to the definition of failure after last week’s announcement that BofA would take $24 billion more in government support from the U.S. Treasury and Federal Deposit Insurance Corp., in addition to a $118 billion backstop for bad debts. The core problem remains unexplained and inexplicable: How did Merrill’s troubled assets plummet in value so quickly that the firm posted a $15 billion loss in just three months? And why did neither BofA nor Merrill provide any word?

And now the deal’s fathers are stepping back.

This Wall Street Journal article shows that cracks are starting to show in the already-tenuous alliance between Merrill and BofA. Merrill directors complain that Chief Executive John Thain never informed them of steep losses before government intervention. Greg Fleming, the president of Merrill Lynch who urged John Thain to speak with BofA CEO Ken Lewis, has left. The bankers are washing their hands. BofA advisers Christopher Flowers and investment bank Fox-Pitt Kelton say they didn’t see either company’s books after the deal was announced on Sept. 15.

Shareholders and analysts are livid. BofA is tenuously capitalized, in the opinion of Friedman Billings Ramsey analysts, going into 2009 with just $61.7 billion of pro forma tangible common equity supporting $2.4 trillion of tangible assets.

And the whole brouhaha is wrapped in an ironic ribbon: the U.S. federal government, which has for upward of 70 years urged ever more transparency for publicly traded companies, didn’t feel the urge to tell of a mid-December financing agreement that affected the future and value of two of the U.S’s biggest financial institutions. And remember, the federal government owns 35% of Bank of America’s pro forma tangible equity.

The government is engaged in CLOSED DOOR DEALS with private banks on what to do with banks in which they own stock!
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BofA moved up its earnings announcement to Friday in order to soothe investors and clarify the situation. Unfortunately, investors wanted more information than BofA provided. The result? Bank of America’s shares have plummeted, costing as much as $20 billion of market value in two trading days. The stock fell nearly 30% Tuesday to $5.10.

http://blogs.wsj.com/deals/2009/01/20/ba...2-trading-days/
And why did BofA agree to a closed book merger?
Because is was PATRIOTIC. No kidding.
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Lewis replied: Well, let me just kind of take you through that. It's a very legitimate question. As we saw the anticipated fourth-quarter losses accelerating, we did evaluate our rights under the merger agreement and during that time we spoke to and were in close coordination with officials from both the Treasury and the Federal Reserve. The government was firmly of the view that terminating or delaying the closing of the transaction could lead to significant significant concerns and could result in serious systemic harm, and a repricing, assuming it could be agreed, would have a new stockholder vote both at Bank of America and at Merrill Lynch and therefore would have been delayed by at least a couple of months, and that would have led to considerable uncertainty and could have well cost more than the repricing we would have saved. And I think in recognition of the position of Bank of America was in, both the Treasury and the Federal Reserve gave us assurances in December that we should close the deal and that the government would provide the assistance we've been talking about. So particularly ringing - putting a fence around some of the assets that we were most concerned about. And so in view of all of those considerations, and in view that strategically, Merrill Lynch remains a solid franchise, we just thought it was in the best interest of our company and our stockholders, and the country, to move forward with the original terms and the timing.

http://www.thedeal.com/dealscape/2009/01/bank_of_americas_ken_lewis_sti.php
The government basically wrote a blank check to BofA to complete the deal. Remember the government OWNs 35% of BofA.
LOTS of bad things going on in our country and they don't bode well for freedom. This is de facto nationalization.
 
Originally Posted By: moribundman
It's all Lord Voldemort's doing.



Quick, Ignotus Peverell, put on the invisibility cloak and investigate!
 
The auto industry bailout, loan package, whatever you want to call it, is nickel and dime compared to this debacle, and look at the dog and pony show they were put through.

You would think, at the very least, that these well educated and greedy bankers would be forced to come up with a plausible plan regarding their future viability by some date certain in exchange for the unlimited billions being thrown at them.
 
Originally Posted By: Win
The auto industry bailout, loan package, whatever you want to call it, is nickel and dime compared to this debacle, and look at the dog and pony show they were put through.

You would think, at the very least, that these well educated and greedy bankers would be forced to come up with a plausible plan regarding their future viability by some date certain in exchange for the unlimited billions being thrown at them.





You're funny!
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You would think, at the very least, that these well educated and greedy bankers would be forced to come up with a plausible plan regarding their future viability by some date certain in exchange for the unlimited billions being thrown at them.

Indeed there is NO escape plan or end game for all of this and that is the really scary thing. The people making these decisions (government) have NO clue as to what to do so they are throwing darts at the board with the future and existence of their countries so they can "solve" the problem...and that includes the US!

Sad thing is that the best thing they should do is nothing at all.
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Originally Posted By: Tempest
Indeed there is NO escape plan or end game for all of this and that is the really scary thing.


Yeah, the cost of success is going to be so high, you have to wonder if it would not have been cheaper to let these guys go, and deal with the aftermath.

It reminds me of the old expression that you can't dig yourself out of a hole.
 
That's it; let the markets correct themselves!

If the bailout money did not arrive, would the markets go down dramatically more? Maybe a little more, but not $750 BILLION OF OUR MONEY more!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

GRRRRRRRRRRRRR.
 
Apparently Bernanke was in Switzerland (when he was supposed to be at a Congressional hearing) recently discussing a totally new banking system/currency, or something to that affect, with Swiss bankers.
 
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Originally Posted By: tpitcher
That's it; let the markets correct themselves!

If the bailout money did not arrive, would the markets go down dramatically more? Maybe a little more, but not $750 BILLION OF OUR MONEY more!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

GRRRRRRRRRRRRR.


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I AGREE 100%. They should have to ask us for a vote on it before just signing over that kind of money to these IMO. Greedy [censored]!
 
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Bank of America, the biggest U.S. lender by assets, fell the most in the Dow average, sliding 29 percent to $5.10. FBR’s Miller estimated Bank of America needs at least $80 billion of additional capital.

You don’t want to be anywhere close to these common stocks because you don’t know how much new stock is going to be issued,” said Wayne Wilbanks, who oversees $1.1 billion as chief investment officer at Wilbanks Smith & Thomas in Norfolk, Virginia. “If one wants to invest in this space I would focus almost exclusively on the preferred shares,” he said, because that’s the same type of stock the government is purchasing.

The U.S. government has taken preferred equity stakes in at least 257 banks including Bank of America, Wells Fargo, Bank of New York and State Street since October under its Troubled Asset Relief Program aimed at stabilizing the banking system.

The Federal government buying stocks is DIRECTLY altering and skewing the market place. Is it any wonder why the markets are so volatile?
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State Street Corp., the largest money manager for institutions, tumbled 59 percent after unrealized bond losses almost doubled. Wells Fargo & Co. and Bank of America Corp. slumped more than 23 percent on an analyst’s prediction that they’ll need to take steps to shore up their balance sheets. The Dow’s 4 percent slide was the most on an Inauguration Day in the measure’s 112-year history, according to data compiled by Bloomberg and the Stock Trader’s Almanac.

According to Wiki, State street was worth $14.1 TRILLION in 2007 and their stock dipped 60% IN ONE DAY.
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Effectively Insolvent’

U.S. financial losses from the credit crisis may reach $3.6 trillion, according to New York University Professor Nouriel Roubini, who predicted last year’s economic and stock-market meltdowns.

If that’s true, it means the U.S. banking system is effectively insolvent because it starts with a capital of $1.4 trillion,” Roubini said at a conference in Dubai today. “This is a systemic banking crisis.”

Europe’s Dow Jones Stoxx 600 Index retreated 2.1 percent today, led by banks and technology companies. It fell almost 2 percent yesterday after Royal Bank of Scotland Group Plc forecast the biggest-ever loss by a U.K. company. The MSCI Asia Pacific Index retreated 2.1 percent today.

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=aOYw.awwsNSg&refer=worldwide
 
Originally Posted By: Win
Originally Posted By: Tempest
Indeed there is NO escape plan or end game for all of this and that is the really scary thing.


you have to wonder if it would not have been cheaper to let these guys go.



You won't see me shed a tear if the financiers ..the money changers ..find themselves standing in a spot where the earth decides to open up and swallow them.

While Tempest tends to find their enforcement arm the evil, I just don't see them NOT being the evil target here.

What good do they do us that isn't way over shadowed by what they do for themselves. They appear to be the #1 entitlement group of distinction. They feel that "they deserve" to be unscathed.

More living proof that "wealth needs help". Why is Tempest against this action
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"How did they get wealthy to begin with?"

That we may not know ..but we know how they stay that way.
 
The scary thing is this is just the beginning of this crisis. The near and midterm reality and consequences of this are still blurred by the dust. When the dust settles in the coming years....

What, are we going to be looking at shanty towns and lines around the block at soup kitchens? The 30s revisited?

We need to rid ourselves of central banking IMO and get back to a precious metals, or other style banking/currency system. Or a currency that is based on tangibles. Some people have proposed a currency system where currency is based on economic infrastructure - where it's backed by the goods, services, and infrastructure that is the essence of our economy.
 
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