Brand new XG9018... You be the judge

[ARCOgraphite]

That's due to lack of understanding & it's good that you're asking questions to learn. The evenness is going to help trap & hold debris for one. Go too far out & it'll put more pressure on the uneven pleats causing a tear. The filter media is constructed the way it is to help w/these things. IMO it has more to do with performance than with aesthetics alone. That being said when you're paying good money for a premium filter that's what you want to see. Seems reasonable to me. This filter media looks uneven all the way around.

Recall that the filter media is not "open ended" on the back side like an air filter, there is only the differential pressure acting on the media - which is likely ~ 2-3 psig. There may be a greater differential at initial startup, and with viscous, cold oil, that could possibly and very probably tear fragile paper-glass composite media at a high stress point - where it is bonded to the end cap(s).

We have seen this on c&p photos on this forum and I have experienced it across a cold Winter in the Northeast - surprisingly with a very expensive, oversized Honda (Filtech) spin on spec'd for the S2000 (but fits most Nissan, Honda, Subaru, Mazda, Hyundai, Kia)

 

[fantastic]

Recall that the filter media is not "open ended" on the back side like an air filter, there is only the differential pressure acting on the media - which is likely ~ 2-3 psig. There may be a greater differential at initial startup, and with viscous, cold oil, that could possibly and very probably tear fragile paper-glass composite media at a high stress point - where it is bonded to the end cap(s).

We have seen this on c&p photos on this forum and I have experienced it across a cold Winter in the Northeast - surprisingly with a very expensive, oversized Honda (Filtech) spin on spec'd for the S2000 (but fits most Nissan, Honda, Subaru, Mazda, Hyundai, Kia)

Which is why I carry a certain tune around here. Get a Boss filter..
But I agree with all of your points.

 

[fantastic]

Seen better pleat spacing uniformity and alignment, that's for sure. This cartridge application looks to be the one for ecotec engines. If so, ecotec cartridges can look ugly post use. Lots of posts about them on this subforum. Wonder how topic would look post use.

I too don't recognize the media being used. It's white and wire backed like the Endurance, but based on pics alone, I can't make that leap. Imo, media does 'look' better than the made in Brazil XG cartridge for Pentastar engines.

In my old 2.2L Ecotec the Tough Guard came out w/bent pleats. OEM Hengst & OG wire backed Ultra came out great everytime.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Wonder how topic would look post use.

It would look the same because it's wire-backed media.

 

[thastinger]

That is one good thing with the canister filters, you get to inspect before you buy...assuming you have a pocket knife on you to cut the box seal with

 

[ZeeOSix]

Recall that the filter media is not "open ended" on the back side like an air filter, there is only the differential pressure acting on the media - which is likely ~ 2-3 psig. There may be a greater differential at initial startup, and with viscous, cold oil, that could possibly and very probably tear fragile paper-glass composite media at a high stress point - where it is bonded to the end cap(s).

Given the right conditions, the dP across the media will be as high (or even higher for a short time) than the filter bypass valve setting. So it could be as high as 20+ PSI of dP on some oil filters. The media is still basically "open ended" on the back side of the media. Having a center tube doesn't effect what the actual dP across the media is due to the oil flow.

 

[ZZman]

Would seem the uneven pleats mean less pleats so less surface area for filtering.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Would seem the uneven pleats mean less pleats so less surface area for filtering.

The number of pleats, and the total surface area of the media hasn't changed just because the pleats are unevenly spaced. So how could uneven pleats cause "less surface area"? Oil flows between closely spaced pleats just fine. Close pleats doesn't make a tight enough seal for oil not to flow through the media. Oil flow through an oil filter is forced through it by a positive displacement oil pump.

 

[Sayjac]

It would look the same because it's wire-backed media.

As it "looks to be" the Ecotec engine filter application as noted in my post, imo, may well have little or nothing to do with wire backing. As those familiar with that cartridge application are aware from reading this subforum, many of those have ugly post use appearance. My reference specifically, to total post use XG cartridge appearance, not just media.

In my old 2.2L Ecotec the Tough Guard came out w/bent pleats. OEM Hengst & OG wire backed Ultra came out great everytime.

The TG result described not uncommon in my observation of the post use Ecotec engine cartridges. There's even been at least one anecdote of the OEM US made Hengst cartridge having a squished looking post use appearance too. Generally speaking, the US made Hengst cartridge has looked the best overall. I can't recall any XG Ecotec engine post use cartridges being posted. But, I do recall multiple for BMW XG post use cartridges being posted, those went far beyond a squished looking cartridge, ie,. total separation of media from the end caps.

Back to topic, imo topic cartridge pleating is an example of poor QC.

 

[ARCOgraphite]

Given the right conditions, the dP across the media will be as high (or even higher for a short time) than the filter bypass valve setting. So it could be as high as 20+ PSI of dP on some oil filters. The media is still basically "open ended" on the back side of the media. Having a center tube doesn't effect what the actual dP across the media is due to the oil flow.

I can visualize and understand the force vectors on the media restrictive elements (call it a screen in a window) can be high - regardless of DP gradient - due to a substantial flow velocity. One could picture, If say a small element was excised from the screen - it would immediately be carried away at the velocity of the moving viscous fluid; Like winds in a hurricane tearing off palm fronds.

Good discussion.

 

[goingplacesanddoingstuff]

I just wouldn’t buy that particular one. I bet others are better.

 

[ZZman]

The number of pleats, and the total surface area of the media hasn't changed just because the pleats are unevenly spaced. So how could uneven pleats cause "less surface area"? Oil flows between closely spaced pleats just fine. Close pleats doesn't make a tight enough seal for oil not to flow through the media. Oil flow through an oil filter is forced through it by a positive displacement oil pump.

Are you saying if the pleats were all close together there wouldn't be more pleats and surface area?

 

[ZeeOSix]

Are you saying if the pleats were all close together there wouldn't be more pleats and surface area?

No, I'm saying the total area of the media is the same regardless of how the pleats are spaced. When a chunk of media is cut out at the factory it's a predetermined size, so it can be either assembled with even pleats, or not. But the surface area never changes.

And filters with lots of media area will typically have tightly spaced pleats around the center tube, and BTW that doesn't really choke any flow. Oil flows through the media just fine even with tight pleats. I recall years ago when people claimed that Purolator filters were "really flow restrictive" because the media was tightly spaced. But that was a long standing misconception. Here's a Microgard Select showing inner diameter pleat spacing.

 

[ZeeOSix]

I can visualize and understand the force vectors on the media restrictive elements (call it a screen in a window) can be high - regardless of DP gradient - due to a substantial flow velocity. One could picture, If say a small element was excised from the screen - it would immediately be carried away at the velocity of the moving viscous fluid; Like winds in a hurricane tearing off palm fronds.

Good discussion.

If the pleats are not spaced very wide, the oil flow vectors on both side of a pleat basically cancel each other out, plus a narrowly spread pleat "V" can't bend much at all compared to a wide pleat "V". Pretty much every torn pleat seen in this forum is on the ends of pleats that are widely spaced and have a wide "V" shape. That's the main key to causing media to tear. The other key is the flexibility and brittleness of the media when it is put under a bending stress if the pleat has a wide "V". That's also why wavy pleats that are not widely spaced will never tear. A wavy pleat would have to be widely spaced, just like a laser straight pleat, in order to be susceptible to tearing.

 

[SC Maintenance]

So if I understand you correctly, the more tightly spaced pleats will have higher flow rate in that area (because the dp is constant, so more filter area = more flow. This may cause a pressure gradient inside the can, around the dirty side of the filter material. So what is the outcome of that - if any?

 

[ZeeOSix]

So if I understand you correctly, the more tightly spaced pleats will have higher flow rate in that area (because the dp is constant, so more filter area = more flow. This may cause a pressure gradient inside the can, around the dirty side of the filter material. So what is the outcome of that - if any?

The flow is the same through an oil filter (regardless of the filter, or the filter design) at any given engine RPM due to the positive displacement oil pump - as long as the pump is not in pressure relief. If that is understood, then it's easier to understand engine oiling systems and oil filters. A difference in an oil filter's "flow restriction" will determine the overall dP across the oil filter. A more "flow restrictive" oil filter does not reduce oil flow, it only caused more dP across the filter. If it's so restrictive, due extreme clogging, it's possible it could make the oil pump hit pressure relief, but that's a pretty rare thing to happen. More media flow area of the same media type will result in less dP. The media is the main cause of dP across an oil filter. the base plate and center tube (if designed well) contributes very little to the total dP across an oil filter.

Like I mentioned above, the oil is going to find all flow paths regardless if the pleats are packed tightly or not. Pleats in an oil filter, even if they look tightly packed, it not enough to cause extreme changes in the flow paths through the media. The only thing to worry about with uneven pleat spacing is how big of a "V" a pleat has due to wide spacing. If that "V" is too large and the media bends over and is weak and not very flexible, then it can certainly tear at the root of the pleat where it attaches to the end cap. Example below - look how wide the "V" is in the pleat that tore. Also note how closely spaced the "wavy" pleats are. They don't tear from being wavy, they tear from being widely spaced that causes a large "V" in the end of the pleat.

 

[bbhero]

The flow is the same through an oil filter (regardless of the filter, or the filter design) at any given engine RPM due to the positive displacement oil pump - as long as the pump is not in pressure relief. If that is understood, then it's easier to understand engine oiling systems and oil filters. A difference in an oil filter's "flow restriction" will determine the overall dP across the oil filter. A more "flow restrictive" oil filter does not reduce oil flow, it only caused more dP across the filter. If it's so restrictive, due extreme clogging, it's possible it could make the oil pump hit pressure relief, but that's a pretty rare thing to happen. More media flow area of the same media type will result in less dP. The media is the main cause of dP across an oil filter. the base plate and center tube (if designed well) contributes very little to the total dP across an oil filter.

Like I mentioned above, the oil is going to find all flow paths regardless if the pleats are packed tightly or not. Pleats in an oil filter, even if they look tightly packed, it not enough to cause extreme changes in the flow paths through the media. The only thing to worry about with uneven pleat spacing is how big of a "V" a pleat has due to wide spacing. If that "V" is too large and the media bends over and is weak and not very flexible, then it can certainly tear at the root of the pleat where it attaches to the end cap. Example below - look how wide the "V" is in the pleat that tore. Also note how closely spaced the "wavy" pleats are. They don't tear from being wavy, they tear from being widely spaced that causes a large "V" in the end of the pleat.

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True in this case… Agree on this… Certainly does happen like this a fair amount too.

Yet many of the ones that tore had too little filter media in them….

 

[ZeeOSix]

Yet many of the ones that tore had too little filter media in them….

Yes, too little media area makes it harder to space out the pleats evenly around the circumference of the center tube, and that can cause some wide pleat "V", which can increase the risk of tearing. The wide pleats "V"s typically happen at the pleat seam due to the way the pleat seam process is done. More media area usually ends up giving more pleats, and therefore makes it easier to space the pleats out around the circumference of the center tube. And even if there are a few wide pleat spacing areas, it wound not be as drastic of a pleat spacing if there's more media area and more total pleats in the element to start with. Try evenly spacing say 25 pleats vs 50 pleats ... trying to evenly space 25 pleats would be much more challenging than with 50 pleats.

 

[Plawan]

I usually make a point to swing through the automotive aisle whenever the Mrs. and I visit WM, and this was today's discovery.

This XG 9018 was part of what looked like a freshly stocked row, and my GOD is it bad! So bad, in fact, that my completely auto oblivious girlfriend commented: "Wow, is it supposed to look that uneven??".

I'm not sure how something this bad got through QC, and I certainly wouldn't use it. The XG that went in my Regal 2 months ago had absolutely laser straight pleats.

I can't wait to hear the feedback from you all on this one...

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The wire backing will allow this filter to get away with bad pleat spacing. I’ve seen worse. Doesn't change the fact that it’s ugly and QC is in shambles over there in framville, seeing so much of the struggles they’ve been having with a lot of their filters lately and all.

 

[DGXR]

The number of pleats, and the total surface area of the media hasn't changed just because the pleats are unevenly spaced. So how could uneven pleats cause "less surface area"? Oil flows between closely spaced pleats just fine. Close pleats doesn't make a tight enough seal for oil not to flow through the media. Oil flow through an oil filter is forced through it by a positive displacement oil pump.

I understand what you are saying here. But it seems that closely-spaced pleats would get loaded up with debris/contaminants in the upper area, which could prevent oil from reaching the deeper portion of these tight pleats...? Effectively reducing the available surface area of the filter media over the OCI?