Bragging on Lucas atf additive

Lucas Transmission Fix is not the same as their oil stabilizer though, and until someone posts a chemical analysis of Transmission Fix to the contrary, it seems you are speculating here. I do see you are saying may and maybe though. A lot of competing products have seal-swellers and the like too so that would be a good thing in this case. I can say Lucas Transmission Fix worked for me.

People here were also speculating that Lucas Fuel Treatment UCL was nothing more than a high viscosity oil too , and then MolaKule posted an analysis of it here many years ago, and the Lucas UCL contained both polyisobutylene (PIB) and polyisobutylene succinic anhydride (PIBSA). I cannot seem to find the original post since Bob changed over to the new message board software. Those compounds are dispersants used in gasoline. Chevron also claims they are effective at deposit control in engines.

Polyisobutylene (PIB)-based deposit-control fuel additives are
polymeric chemicals used as additives in engine fuel (such as
gasoline) to keep sludge, soot, oxidation products, and other
deposit precursors from forming deposits onto and harming key
engine parts. These deposits can rob an engine of power, reduce
fuel economy, and increase harmful emissions.

It is a separate discussion whether or not anyone needs a fuel treatment or an upper cylinder lubricant, whether they are at effective concentrations compared to what you pay for it, and the like.
 
Lucas Transmission Fix is not the same as their oil stabilizer though, and until someone posts a chemical analysis of Transmission Fix to the contrary, it seems you are speculating here. I do see you are saying may and maybe though. A lot of competing products have seal-swellers and the like too so that would be a good thing in this case. I can say Lucas Transmission Fix worked for me.

People here were also speculating that Lucas Fuel Treatment UCL was nothing more than a high viscosity oil too , and then MolaKule posted an analysis of it here many years ago, and the Lucas UCL contained both polyisobutylene (PIB) and polyisobutylene succinic anhydride (PIBSA). I cannot seem to find the original post since Bob changed over to the new message board software. Those compounds are dispersants used in gasoline. Chevron also claims they are effective at deposit control in engines.



It is a separate discussion whether or not anyone needs a fuel treatment or an upper cylinder lubricant, whether they are at effective concentrations compared to what you pay for it, and the like.

I didn't say it was the same, just similar, in that it is very high viscosity and is tacky. The MSDS gives us a bit of info:
View attachment 73415
View attachment 73416

- It's 48cSt at 100C, which is double the upper limit for an SAE60.
- They call out a single base oil, which is a solvent-refined heavy conventional base oil (as an aside, if you search this #, you find a ton of Lucas products, this is their go-to)

This is very similar to the LOS product, but not quite as heavy.

Per Molakule in the base oil thread:

Molakule said:
Mineral Naphthenic Base Oil - 64741-96-4; VI of ~15

So yeah.... Bottom of the barrel.
 
Their carrier oil is clearly not the ingredient in Lucas Transmission Fix that fixes transmissions, it is the other up to 40% of the product not listed on the SDS, that helps the transmission. And no, the SDS is not a recipe for what's in the product. Frankly the carrier oil could cost them no more than ten cents a bottle and I would not care, I care about whether the product works in the car. Your statement "Lucas just increases the viscosity." is not supported. The carrier for their additive package, sure that is high viscosity.
 
Their carrier oil is clearly not the ingredient in Lucas Transmission Fix that fixes transmissions, it is the other up to 40% of the product not listed on the SDS, that helps the transmission. And no, the SDS is not a recipe for what's in the product. Frankly the carrier oil could cost them no more than ten cents a bottle and I would not care, I care about whether the product works in the car. Your statement "Lucas just increases the viscosity." is not supported. The carrier for their additive package, sure that is high viscosity.

It does increase viscosity, considerably, and everything you ascribe to other ingredients may in fact just be a function of the viscosity increase as I already mentioned.

The product doesn't "fix" anything. No wizard in a bottle has the ability to actually repair a mechanical issue and I assume you are aware of that despite the language you've used. The product masks underlying mechanical issues by primarily increasing the viscosity considerably (otherwise it wouldn't be so heavy) and potentially altering the friction modifying characteristics, depending on what else they are putting in it.

And no, while the SDS isn't a recipe, it shows that the majority of the product consists of the cheapest base oil imaginable with a VI that's so low it's laughable. We also don't know how much of the wickedly heavy viscosity is achieved from the base oil itself or the VII they are dosing the product with.

As I already noted, increased line pressure and reduction in friction modification can stop slip. Look at folks that used to use Type F to firm up shifts for example in drag cars. Lucas of course knows this, that's why the product is so heavy.

At the end of the day, what is being achieved here is that you are diluting a fully formulated ATF that's presumably blended with base oils of sufficient quality to have a VI that makes the product suitable for the anticipated range of operating temperatures and resist oxidation, with the lowest possible group base oil whose oxidation resistance characteristics are going to be horrendous (because it's group I) and a VI that's equally awful.

Like 20w-50 will mask worn bearings, yes, increasing the viscosity of ATF will stop slipping and other things. Manipulating the FM characteristics may be taking place as well, either through dilution or through something added. Regardless, you are negatively impacting numerous aspects of the fully formulated ATF with this product, that's in spite of the "benefits" you are perceiving. This is the same as with the "Oil Stabilizer" which does the exact same thing (dilutes a fully formulated lubricant with a garbage base oil and tons of VII and dramatically increases viscosity).

We've been down this road before on your defence of Lucas, and I think @RDY4WAR contributed the last time around.

At the end of the day, what you think of the product doesn't change what it's primarily comprised of and it certainly doesn't excuse the price they charge for a product blended with a base which isn't even suitable for use in a lawnmower.

This is a bandaid marketed at people trying to limp along something that either isn't worth putting the money into to properly fix or the person who owns it can't afford to. They are charging a premium for that because they can and because of stories like yours where how the result is achieved is of no consequence because the perception of the product "fixing" a mechanical issue is enough.

Personally, I was taught to fix things properly. But, I've also been in the position of being in a pinch and having to use a workaround. Having a leaking tailstock seal on the T5 in my Mustang that I couldn't afford the downtime to fix, I used a seal conditioner (Valvoline Maxlife ATF) to mask the issue until I could. So, I understand the OP's position with the value of the vehicle and his acknowledgement that this is just a bandaid and while I wouldn't go the route he has, he's at least aware of what is going on and acknowledging that nothing has actually been repaired.
 
Lucas is a marketing company. They sell bottom shelf products at top shelf prices through a massive marketing campaign. They know that the vast majority of the population doesn't know trans fluid from brake fluid and will believe just about any outrageous claim they slap on the bottle... and they make bank on it.

It wouldn't surprise me if the product itself costs less than the bottle it comes in. The profit margin is massive. Imagine taking a bottle, filling it up with tap water, slapping a label on it that says "organic solvent", and charging $12 a bottle for it. That's basically what they're doing.
 
Just to add here, @wdn I hope that you don't take my criticism of Lucas personally, as that is not my intention. Lucas is a company who uses predatory, exploitative and deceptive marketing practices to trick people into spending considerable money on products comprised of the cheapest possible garbage while claiming features and functions that they are wholly incapable of. I take exception to consumer naivety and ignorance being exploited in this manner.

Products like Lubeguard, for example, which have been endorsed by numerous OEM's through TSB's, at least have an air of legitimacy. Their products are sold in small bottles, of normal viscosity, and their function is to modify, chemically, the characteristics of the fluid it is being added to in order to address specific issues. There is a gaping chasm between that type of product, and the one we are discussing which is more like the transmission equivalent of "Motor Honey".

That Lubeguard didn't work for the OP highlights that the issue he is dealing with is not one that can be addressed via the modification of the friction characteristics of the fluid. The increase in viscosity having an effect points to a worn or out of spec component. The fact that this "worked" is not lost on me, but I take exception to the deceptive nature of the claims and the manner in which this is achieved, as you are introducing a considerable volume of wholly inferior base oil and VII. If the effect of viscosity increase was to be achieved using high quality components, we'd be seeing something like Mobil's Spectrasyn Elite 65 used as the base (VI of 179) with no VII load and enough Esterex to not only counteract the "dryness" of PAO, but provide the seal conditioning. We don't, because the goal here isn't a product comprised of high quality components, but to make the most profit possible. The fact that the oil version of this is peddled as a "stabilizer" using bases with which the effects claimed are wholly impossible, really underlines this objective.
 
Your zeal for looking at carrier oil does not extend to Lubeguard since according to their SDS the main ingredient of it is Lubricating oils, refined , used.
 
It worked for OP and it also worked for me. If that confounds some people because they think it shouldn’t have worked, or they bristle at the fact that it works in spite of containing cheap ingredients, so be it.
 
Your zeal for looking at carrier oil does not extend to Lubeguard since according to their SDS the main ingredient of it is Lubricating oils, refined , used.
Lubeguard contains no VII. It's also half the viscosity at 40C than the Lucas product is at 100C. The bottle is also only 10oz.
Screen Shot 2021-10-04 at 7.36.02 PM.png

Screen Shot 2021-10-04 at 7.36.19 PM.png


As to the base oil they use that's identified in the SDS, it's Terrapure 150N:
Screen Shot 2021-10-04 at 7.46.49 PM.png


Who hydroprocesses and re-refine bases (similar to Valvoline Nexgen) and the product is a 5cSt group II product with a VI of 111 and a Noack of 15%. It's actually a pretty decent base oil as far as conventional bases go.

The "synthetic" part is probably an Ester, from previous analyses performed on their products here, which of course won't be called-out on an SDS.

Lubeguard and Lucas are not similar.
 
Last edited:
That's the first time I've seen the SDS of Lubegard. Interesting that it contains ethylbenzene. It's somewhat toxic and commonly found in cigarette smoke. I wonder why that's in there.
 
It worked for OP and it also worked for me. If that confounds some people because they think it shouldn’t have worked, or they bristle at the fact that it works in spite of containing cheap ingredients, so be it.
Given our history on the subject, clearly the objective here was not convincing you. It is highlighting both the nature and the constituents of the product so that people reading this exchange can make an informed decision. Hopefully one that involves avoiding it, and, ideally, anything the company produces.
 
That's the first time I've seen the SDS of Lubegard. Interesting that it contains ethylbenzene. It's somewhat toxic and commonly found in cigarette smoke. I wonder why that's in there.

I THINK it was @MolaKule that posted a Lubeguard analysis some years back and it had some interesting components to it. I can't remember if Tom (the ester man!) commented on it or not, but there was discussion of esters in the exchange because of their presence in the product IIRC.
 
I THINK it was @MolaKule that posted a Lubeguard analysis some years back and it had some interesting components to it. I can't remember if Tom (the ester man!) commented on it or not, but there was discussion of esters in the exchange because of their presence in the product IIRC.

Found some quotes from Mola:
Use the D4 and check the fluid level when the engine is hot. FLuid level should be about half-way between COLD and HOT. Drive it for about 100 to 500 miles and note shifting. If still not satisfied with shifting, add Lubegard Red only, since you may have varnished valving or solenoids.
LubeGard Red is primarily a cleaner, an anti-oxidant, and an AW fluid. One thing you do not want to do in Automatic transmissions is change the dynamic friction coefficients, since D4, MaxLife, etc, already have the correct friction modifier in its PI package.

This was in the context of a conversion fluid, which, in this case, was being advised against because the fluid in use was already the correct fluid. He also shoots down somebody pumping up Lucas in the same thread:
 
The Lucas stop slip worked for several people on this very thread not, just for me. If you want to play tag-team using your buddy who you pulled into the thread to back you up, be my guest. Their power steering fluid stop leak also stopped the power steering on my Kubota tractor from leaking. That is two out of two Lucas products that worked for me. Go ahead and have the last word I’m sure you’ll take it.
 
Lucas Transmission fix is a lot like wrapping a cracked hammer handle with a bunch of duct tape. The hammer is still nearly broken, but you probably extended it's useful life before it's completely busted. How long it continues to work depends on how bad the crack was to start with and how gently it's used.
 
The Lucas stop slip worked for several people on this very thread not, just for me. If you want to play tag-team using your buddy who you pulled into the thread to back you up, be my guest. Their power steering fluid stop leak also stopped the power steering on my Kubota tractor from leaking. That is two out of two Lucas products that worked for me. Go ahead and have the last word I’m sure you’ll take it.
I quoted Molakule, who actually formulates oils for a living and is an SME on this subject. He has no use for their products, but you'll dismiss that because it doesn't jive with the position you've invested in.

Do you know what else works to stop power steering leaks? Maxlife, and it's a fully formulated product by a reputable company who doesn't make their money peddling snake oil. All sorts of alternatives that are of significantly higher quality on the market if you aren't of the mind or in a position to actually fix the problem properly.
 
Say what you want but the "proof is in the pudding" -- 2001 Silverado truck with slipping transmission @ 131,00 mi. ....put in Lucas thick chit transmission "snake oil"......and my transmission has been slip free and running smooth for almost 40,000 mi. since.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
  • Like
Reactions: wdn
Say what you want but the "proof is in the pudding" -- 2001 Silverado truck with slipping transmission @ 131,00 mi. ....put in Lucas thick chit transmission "snake oil"......and my transmission has been slip free and running smooth for almost 40,000 mi. since.

Say what you want - but it is like a sore pecker, you can't beat it!
@clinebarger could probably tell you what is actually wrong with it ;)

As I said, increasing line pressure by increasing viscosity can stop slip, but it's just a bandaid; it masks an underlying mechanical issue and you've made the fluid in there measurably worse with the low VI group I.

BUT, it's a 20 year old truck, and that's exactly what this stuff is marketed at, folks that can't or don't want to spend the money to fix it properly because it isn't worth it.
 
I quoted Molakule, who actually formulates oils for a living and is an SME on this subject. He has no use for their products, but you'll dismiss that because it doesn't jive with the position you've invested in.

Do you know what else works to stop power steering leaks? Maxlife, and it's a fully formulated product by a reputable company who doesn't make their money peddling snake oil. All sorts of alternatives that are of significantly higher quality on the market if you aren't of the mind or in a position to actually fix the problem properly.
Although I completely agree with your point there are some that would argue maxlife shares similar predatory marketing claims of compatibility although not to the same extent of the lucas products.
 
Although I completely agree with your point there are some that would argue maxlife shares similar predatory marketing claims of compatibility although not to the same extent of the lucas products.

That's a valid point, but I take @MolaKule OK'ing of the product as sufficient validation of its quality. It's at least a fully formulated lubricant.
 
Back
Top