Please help, I have an application in my swathers that abuse any oil that you put in it. This design was such a disaster that Macdon changed it after only a few years. It's a right angle gear box right next to the engine that is no where near big enough nor has the oil capacity to survive. Fact of the matter is I have four of these and need to prolong the life of these boxes to the best of my ability. I have been using the heaviest Mobil synthetic I could find but I just visited the Red Line site and they have a gear oil that they claim has a higher vis. Does anyone have any experience with the Heavy Shock Proof Oil, or could reccomend an oil that has Superhuman features. Thanks
boiling gearbox oil
- Thread starter carroll7645
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Hi,
high viscosity lubricants tend to run hotter in many gearbox applications. Many heavy trucks use an air to oil cooler and/or a circulating pump
What's the application?
high viscosity lubricants tend to run hotter in many gearbox applications. Many heavy trucks use an air to oil cooler and/or a circulating pump
What's the application?
Is this the same windrower where the seals degrade from heat and the hydraulic fluid eventually leaks into the gearbox?
Don't know if it's the best:
Semi-Fluid 00 Synthetic EP Grease (GSF)
Semi-Fluid 00 Synthetic EP Grease (GSF)
AMSOIL Semi-Fluid 00 Synthetic EP Grease is a lithium complex semifluid grease (NLGI 00) formulated with high-viscosity ISO-460 synthetic base oils. Coupled with a sophisticated additive package, AMSOIL Semi-Fluid 00 Synthetic EP Grease coats and reacts to metal surfaces, providing an unparalleled protection system that reduces wear and prevents damage.
See Pricing Information or Place an Order
Package sizes include:
35-lb. Lug
120-lb. Keg
400-lb. Drum
Formulated to Lubricate and Protect Agricultural and Commercial Equipment
PRODUCT DESCRIPTION
AMSOIL Semi-Fluid 00 Synthetic EP Grease (GSF) is formulated with high viscosity ISO-460 synthetic base oils and a sophisticated additive package, providing and unparalleled protection system that reduces wear and prevents damage. Its advanced extreme pressure additives provide superior protection and performance in shock loading applications which can rupture the oil film of conventional greases and lead to damaging metal to metal contact. AMSOIL Semi-Fluid Grease resists water and provides superior protection against corrosion and oxidation, which can eat away and destroy critical components and lead to equipment failure.
PERFORMANCE FEATURES
* Excellent low- and high-temperature performance
* Oxidatively stable
* Great low-temperature pumpability
* Extended service life
* Outstanding rust and corrosion protection
* Reduced wear under shock-load conditions
* Low coefficient of friction for reduced energy consumption
APPLICATION RECOMMENDATIONS
AMSOIL Semi-Fluid 00 Synthetic EP Grease is a problem-solving lubricant ideal for leaky gear boxes in industrial and fleet applications and for use in applications that are difficult to service. It is primarily used in grease-filled cases where conventional semifluid greases do not provide adequate lubricant life or protection. AMSOIL Semi-Fluid 00 Synthetic EP Grease is the primary grease recommendation for truck wheel hubs as outlined in RP 631, issued by The Maintenance Council of the American Trucking Association.
AMSOIL Semi-Fluid 00 Synthetic EP Grease is recommended in the following agricultural applications:
* Rotary mower gear boxes
* Cotton picker spindles
* Cotton and corn picker heads
* Combine header gear boxes
* Steering gears
* Auger gear boxes
AMSOIL Semi-Fluid 00 Synthetic EP Grease is recommended in the following commercial applications:
* Truck wheel hubs
* Truck trailer bearings
* Steering axles
* Centralized lubrication systems, particularly at ambient temperatures
* Commercial lawn mower gear boxes
* Steering gears, track rollers, crushers and vibrating screens
* Enclosed gear boxes where oil leakage is a problem
* Clarifier gear drives
* Conveyor drive gear boxes
* Underground mine pressure gear systems
* Mixer and reactor gear drives
* Kiln car wheel bearings
* Pneumatic tools
* Mobile drilling equipment
* Paper folding machinery
* Escalator slide rails
* Industrial bottle washers
TYPICAL TECHNICAL PROPERTIES
AMSOIL Semi-Fluid 00 Synthetic EP Grease (GSF)
NLGI Grade 00
Penetration (ASTM D-217) Worked 60 Strokes 420
Thickener Lithium Complex
Dropping Point (ASTM D-2265) °C [°F] 248 [480]
Base Oil ISO 460
Viscosity at 40°C in cSt 460
Viscosity at 100°C in cSt 38
Rust Prevention ASTM D-1743 PASS
Timken OK Load ASTM D-2509 50
Four Ball EP Weld Load KG 200
Color Red
Structure Smooth
Typical Service Range °C [°F] -29 [-20] to 190 [375]
HEALTH HANDLING & SAFETY
AMSOIL Semi-Fluid 00 Synthetic EP Grease produces no adverse effects to personal health when properly handled and used based on toxicology information. No special handling requirements are necessary beyond good personal hygiene, including, but not limited to, washing skin contact areas with soap and water and cleaning oil-soaked clothing. Additional health and safety information is available from this product's Material Safety Data Sheet, which may be obtained from your servicing AMSOIL Dealer or from AMSOIL INC.
AMSOIL PRODUCT AVAILABILITY
AMSOIL Semi-Fluid 00 Synthetic EP Grease (GSF) is available in 35-lb. pails and 120-lb kegs. Four hundred pound drums are available by special order.
Semi-Fluid 00 Synthetic EP Grease (GSF)
Semi-Fluid 00 Synthetic EP Grease (GSF)
AMSOIL Semi-Fluid 00 Synthetic EP Grease is a lithium complex semifluid grease (NLGI 00) formulated with high-viscosity ISO-460 synthetic base oils. Coupled with a sophisticated additive package, AMSOIL Semi-Fluid 00 Synthetic EP Grease coats and reacts to metal surfaces, providing an unparalleled protection system that reduces wear and prevents damage.
See Pricing Information or Place an Order
Package sizes include:
35-lb. Lug
120-lb. Keg
400-lb. Drum
Formulated to Lubricate and Protect Agricultural and Commercial Equipment
PRODUCT DESCRIPTION
AMSOIL Semi-Fluid 00 Synthetic EP Grease (GSF) is formulated with high viscosity ISO-460 synthetic base oils and a sophisticated additive package, providing and unparalleled protection system that reduces wear and prevents damage. Its advanced extreme pressure additives provide superior protection and performance in shock loading applications which can rupture the oil film of conventional greases and lead to damaging metal to metal contact. AMSOIL Semi-Fluid Grease resists water and provides superior protection against corrosion and oxidation, which can eat away and destroy critical components and lead to equipment failure.
PERFORMANCE FEATURES
* Excellent low- and high-temperature performance
* Oxidatively stable
* Great low-temperature pumpability
* Extended service life
* Outstanding rust and corrosion protection
* Reduced wear under shock-load conditions
* Low coefficient of friction for reduced energy consumption
APPLICATION RECOMMENDATIONS
AMSOIL Semi-Fluid 00 Synthetic EP Grease is a problem-solving lubricant ideal for leaky gear boxes in industrial and fleet applications and for use in applications that are difficult to service. It is primarily used in grease-filled cases where conventional semifluid greases do not provide adequate lubricant life or protection. AMSOIL Semi-Fluid 00 Synthetic EP Grease is the primary grease recommendation for truck wheel hubs as outlined in RP 631, issued by The Maintenance Council of the American Trucking Association.
AMSOIL Semi-Fluid 00 Synthetic EP Grease is recommended in the following agricultural applications:
* Rotary mower gear boxes
* Cotton picker spindles
* Cotton and corn picker heads
* Combine header gear boxes
* Steering gears
* Auger gear boxes
AMSOIL Semi-Fluid 00 Synthetic EP Grease is recommended in the following commercial applications:
* Truck wheel hubs
* Truck trailer bearings
* Steering axles
* Centralized lubrication systems, particularly at ambient temperatures
* Commercial lawn mower gear boxes
* Steering gears, track rollers, crushers and vibrating screens
* Enclosed gear boxes where oil leakage is a problem
* Clarifier gear drives
* Conveyor drive gear boxes
* Underground mine pressure gear systems
* Mixer and reactor gear drives
* Kiln car wheel bearings
* Pneumatic tools
* Mobile drilling equipment
* Paper folding machinery
* Escalator slide rails
* Industrial bottle washers
TYPICAL TECHNICAL PROPERTIES
AMSOIL Semi-Fluid 00 Synthetic EP Grease (GSF)
NLGI Grade 00
Penetration (ASTM D-217) Worked 60 Strokes 420
Thickener Lithium Complex
Dropping Point (ASTM D-2265) °C [°F] 248 [480]
Base Oil ISO 460
Viscosity at 40°C in cSt 460
Viscosity at 100°C in cSt 38
Rust Prevention ASTM D-1743 PASS
Timken OK Load ASTM D-2509 50
Four Ball EP Weld Load KG 200
Color Red
Structure Smooth
Typical Service Range °C [°F] -29 [-20] to 190 [375]
HEALTH HANDLING & SAFETY
AMSOIL Semi-Fluid 00 Synthetic EP Grease produces no adverse effects to personal health when properly handled and used based on toxicology information. No special handling requirements are necessary beyond good personal hygiene, including, but not limited to, washing skin contact areas with soap and water and cleaning oil-soaked clothing. Additional health and safety information is available from this product's Material Safety Data Sheet, which may be obtained from your servicing AMSOIL Dealer or from AMSOIL INC.
AMSOIL PRODUCT AVAILABILITY
AMSOIL Semi-Fluid 00 Synthetic EP Grease (GSF) is available in 35-lb. pails and 120-lb kegs. Four hundred pound drums are available by special order.
The response is great, thanks
Doug, this is the first I've heard that a thinner oil might lower an operating temp. All of the oil recommendations that I have recieved swayed me toward the higher viscosities, xx-140 etc. I could understand a high quality lower vis. oil outperforming a lower quality higher vis. but anyway, interesting thought that I cannot yet understand but will do more research on. The external type cooler is however something I am trying to muster up. The gearbox only holds about 45 to 50 oz. of oil and consumes about 5 to 8 on a daily basis. The seals don't seem to be a problem before the gear set and bearings give in, which is about a two to three year life expectancy. (700.00 for gears alone) This particular gear box is coupled directly to the engine just before the hydraulic pumps on a 9000 series MacDon.
GMorg, the box is a right angle box that runs the header. Excessive load, and high ambient temps. are clearly to much for the amount of oil to be kept cool even with the factory cooling fans help. The last year I have used Mobil syn. and have had better luck than my beloved TRC by adding daily and draining every 50 or so hours. Since this box holds so little, cost of lubrication is no object, and I was curious when I saw that Red Line offered an oil that exceeded the Mobil vis.
oilboy, I have used a product like you are describing in the gearbox on our bankout wagon. This box is not a high load, high speed, but highly ignored piece of equiptment. I completely replaced the gear oil with this grease last time the seals went out and did not notice because the stubble keeps the box wiped clean. Again, thanks for the responses and other than the addition of some sort of additional sump or external cooling, is there any reccomendations on "superoil"?
Doug, this is the first I've heard that a thinner oil might lower an operating temp. All of the oil recommendations that I have recieved swayed me toward the higher viscosities, xx-140 etc. I could understand a high quality lower vis. oil outperforming a lower quality higher vis. but anyway, interesting thought that I cannot yet understand but will do more research on. The external type cooler is however something I am trying to muster up. The gearbox only holds about 45 to 50 oz. of oil and consumes about 5 to 8 on a daily basis. The seals don't seem to be a problem before the gear set and bearings give in, which is about a two to three year life expectancy. (700.00 for gears alone) This particular gear box is coupled directly to the engine just before the hydraulic pumps on a 9000 series MacDon.
GMorg, the box is a right angle box that runs the header. Excessive load, and high ambient temps. are clearly to much for the amount of oil to be kept cool even with the factory cooling fans help. The last year I have used Mobil syn. and have had better luck than my beloved TRC by adding daily and draining every 50 or so hours. Since this box holds so little, cost of lubrication is no object, and I was curious when I saw that Red Line offered an oil that exceeded the Mobil vis.
oilboy, I have used a product like you are describing in the gearbox on our bankout wagon. This box is not a high load, high speed, but highly ignored piece of equiptment. I completely replaced the gear oil with this grease last time the seals went out and did not notice because the stubble keeps the box wiped clean. Again, thanks for the responses and other than the addition of some sort of additional sump or external cooling, is there any reccomendations on "superoil"?
Are these being heated by engine heat, or exhaust heat? A heat shield comes to mind.
Or some type of heat insulating wrap?
Any possibilities of pictures?
Or some type of heat insulating wrap?
Any possibilities of pictures?
Maybe I missed it, but what is the capacity?
Have you actually measured the temperature?
I assume you are in eastern Oregon. What temps are you typically cutting at? Not TOO cold, I would think and probably some hot days too.
I think it may be be possible to at least increase the lube capacity and perhaps design a pump driven lubricating system.
Anyway here's the link for the GSF Oilboy suggests: Amsoil GSF - Semi-Fluid 00 Synthetic EP Grease
Also take a look at these: Amsoil HD Racing gear oils - there is an SAE 190 and SAE 250 version
Have you actually measured the temperature?
I assume you are in eastern Oregon. What temps are you typically cutting at? Not TOO cold, I would think and probably some hot days too.
I think it may be be possible to at least increase the lube capacity and perhaps design a pump driven lubricating system.
Anyway here's the link for the GSF Oilboy suggests: Amsoil GSF - Semi-Fluid 00 Synthetic EP Grease
Also take a look at these: Amsoil HD Racing gear oils - there is an SAE 190 and SAE 250 version
Heavier oil increases fluid friction and heat.
Here's an idea you can chew on and adapt if possible.
Background: Years back, in my Land Rover days, there was an overdrive, called the Fairey, that provided a 27 decrease in rpm for those low-geared little 4-bys. It's flaw was similar to what you describe... too much heat and too little oil capacity. You had to keep after the oil level (it would leak itself dry into the transfer case due to baked seals and internal pressure) and if nothing else, you had do frequent oil changes and use the best oil you could find so it would survive.
The Cure: One fella I saw built a u-shaped reservoir that attached to the overdrive case via the drain plug and a couple of other places. I don't recall exactly how, but he drilled and tapped into the sides of the case so the the oil coming off the gears was pushed out and down into the reservoir (which was 3-4X the original capacity). The oil then had more dwell time to cool and more surface area with which to cool. As I dimly recall (this was nearly 30 years ago) it cut operating temps in half and cured all the problems. My own Fairey ran at around 250F on long highway trips at 65 mph. I tried various tricks but I did not have the fab skills to make that particular improvement for myself and the guy was not interested in building any more.
Here's an idea you can chew on and adapt if possible.
Background: Years back, in my Land Rover days, there was an overdrive, called the Fairey, that provided a 27 decrease in rpm for those low-geared little 4-bys. It's flaw was similar to what you describe... too much heat and too little oil capacity. You had to keep after the oil level (it would leak itself dry into the transfer case due to baked seals and internal pressure) and if nothing else, you had do frequent oil changes and use the best oil you could find so it would survive.
The Cure: One fella I saw built a u-shaped reservoir that attached to the overdrive case via the drain plug and a couple of other places. I don't recall exactly how, but he drilled and tapped into the sides of the case so the the oil coming off the gears was pushed out and down into the reservoir (which was 3-4X the original capacity). The oil then had more dwell time to cool and more surface area with which to cool. As I dimly recall (this was nearly 30 years ago) it cut operating temps in half and cured all the problems. My own Fairey ran at around 250F on long highway trips at 65 mph. I tried various tricks but I did not have the fab skills to make that particular improvement for myself and the guy was not interested in building any more.
oilboy, the box is driven by a short driveline (~16 in.)that has a small plastic fan mounted to it, I'd say 10 in. The box is then directly coupled to two hydraulic pumps, all which are mounted under the cab. Engine heat wouldn't be a direct contributor, but some for sure. The hyd. pumps would also give off heat, but I would think that covering any part of this system would create a bigger problem. ??? I'll get some pictures later today or tommorrow.
Pablo, I don't know the actual capacity of the box. My guess is over 1 qt. but less than two as the box is about 6 in. sq. And as far as consumption , my guess is 5 to 8 oz. because it takes two pumps from a 5 gal. plunger. This part right here tell me the oil temps are excessive. If they were happier, consumption would be lower. I haven't measured the temp, I have been looking for a reason to buy a temp. gun and here it is. This will be a good testing ground for different oils with results by the end of the day. I could only guess the air temp. in this enviroment would be ~150*? Increasing the reservoir is exactly what is needed here. I just can't molest the box because they are exchanged instead of rebuilt. One thing I did just think of is this has output shafts on three sides, maybe I could find a dimensionally equivelent four sided box and mount a large reservoir, 2 to 3 qts. or so on the unused side of the box. I'll start searching today.
Jim Allen, I can understand what your saying about heavier vis. having more internal friction, than a lower vis. The part I'm having trouble with is a lighter oil cooling this box down. My thinking is this box is being heated by power divided gear contact area. The higher the power the higher the heat because we can't change contact area in this scenario. Wouldn't a heavier cushion between the gears lower the box temp? And I'm talking about this specific application, where this box is only 6ish in. sq. and oil level is half way up the box. All gears and bearings dip below the surface of the oil so the splash lube meter is pegged. Am I seeing this wrong?
Thanks to all.
Pablo, I don't know the actual capacity of the box. My guess is over 1 qt. but less than two as the box is about 6 in. sq. And as far as consumption , my guess is 5 to 8 oz. because it takes two pumps from a 5 gal. plunger. This part right here tell me the oil temps are excessive. If they were happier, consumption would be lower. I haven't measured the temp, I have been looking for a reason to buy a temp. gun and here it is. This will be a good testing ground for different oils with results by the end of the day. I could only guess the air temp. in this enviroment would be ~150*? Increasing the reservoir is exactly what is needed here. I just can't molest the box because they are exchanged instead of rebuilt. One thing I did just think of is this has output shafts on three sides, maybe I could find a dimensionally equivelent four sided box and mount a large reservoir, 2 to 3 qts. or so on the unused side of the box. I'll start searching today.
Jim Allen, I can understand what your saying about heavier vis. having more internal friction, than a lower vis. The part I'm having trouble with is a lighter oil cooling this box down. My thinking is this box is being heated by power divided gear contact area. The higher the power the higher the heat because we can't change contact area in this scenario. Wouldn't a heavier cushion between the gears lower the box temp? And I'm talking about this specific application, where this box is only 6ish in. sq. and oil level is half way up the box. All gears and bearings dip below the surface of the oil so the splash lube meter is pegged. Am I seeing this wrong?
Thanks to all.
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As to fluid friction, it's a law of physics but is likely only contributing a little to your heat problem.
IMO, 150F would not be problem. It's when you are exceeding about 210 is when it gets to be a problem. 210F is the point at which the viscosity numbers are determined, so at that temp, the oil is within the viscosity range called for by the grade designation (90 110, 140, etc.). Cooler, it's thicker. Hotter it's thinner. If the temps are exceeding 210F by a significant amount, it may well be thinning a lot. Knowing the operating temp would help you to choose a better oil. If it's exceeding 210F, you'd want that 140 grade oil.
Another thought: I have a PTO driven Woods chopper that has a 90 degree gearbox like yours. A few years back, I was chopping down wheat stubble and after a few hours, I noted more noise. I found the seal had blown out of the lower part of the box and all the oil had drained out. I added some oil but it was still noisey and it leaked out pretty fast. I muttered a few expletives, thinking the gearbox was smoked, got the seal, noted there was no excessive play or externally apparent bad bearings, tore it down enough to replace the seal, figuring I'd finish the field and overhaul the box as a winter job. I found I was out of the "regular" gear oil I use in the farm stuff (chopper, ditcher, auger, etc) but had some extra Lubrication Engineers LE 607 from a truck project, a straight 90 oil with lots of a moly type additive. I put that stuff in and when I went back out.... noise gone! Remarkable! I spoke with an LE guy about it and he said this was a common story. I also can report that the LE607 reduced rear axle temps in my diesel pickup (vs regular mineral oil) as much as a better known synthetic did. Unfortunately, LE607 is no longer available but Lubrication Engineers (Google them) has a replacement. I doubt an oil alone is going to cure your problem, but it might be worth looking for a very robust oil when you find an upgrade for your gearboxes.
IMO, 150F would not be problem. It's when you are exceeding about 210 is when it gets to be a problem. 210F is the point at which the viscosity numbers are determined, so at that temp, the oil is within the viscosity range called for by the grade designation (90 110, 140, etc.). Cooler, it's thicker. Hotter it's thinner. If the temps are exceeding 210F by a significant amount, it may well be thinning a lot. Knowing the operating temp would help you to choose a better oil. If it's exceeding 210F, you'd want that 140 grade oil.
Another thought: I have a PTO driven Woods chopper that has a 90 degree gearbox like yours. A few years back, I was chopping down wheat stubble and after a few hours, I noted more noise. I found the seal had blown out of the lower part of the box and all the oil had drained out. I added some oil but it was still noisey and it leaked out pretty fast. I muttered a few expletives, thinking the gearbox was smoked, got the seal, noted there was no excessive play or externally apparent bad bearings, tore it down enough to replace the seal, figuring I'd finish the field and overhaul the box as a winter job. I found I was out of the "regular" gear oil I use in the farm stuff (chopper, ditcher, auger, etc) but had some extra Lubrication Engineers LE 607 from a truck project, a straight 90 oil with lots of a moly type additive. I put that stuff in and when I went back out.... noise gone! Remarkable! I spoke with an LE guy about it and he said this was a common story. I also can report that the LE607 reduced rear axle temps in my diesel pickup (vs regular mineral oil) as much as a better known synthetic did. Unfortunately, LE607 is no longer available but Lubrication Engineers (Google them) has a replacement. I doubt an oil alone is going to cure your problem, but it might be worth looking for a very robust oil when you find an upgrade for your gearboxes.
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