Blend of Rotella 10w-30 & T6 5w-40?

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I have a 196k mile young 2000 7.3L Superduty, and for the winter I usually go to a lighter weight oil for ease of start ups in the cold. I work a night shift so my truck sits out in the coldest part of the night, no plug near by and it my truck is well overdue for an oil change.

Temps have been as low as -17F over night (happened last year) but temps of -1F are not uncommon. Previously I'd do straight 5w-40 T6 synthetic, but money is tight, really tight right now, so I was considering blending 2.75 gallons 10w30 with a jug of T6 5W-40 a buddy gave me free.

Thoughts?
 
General recommendations that the API makes for passenger cars is to use 10w30 down to 0F, and then 5W-XX below that. A blend of 1 gallon 5w40 in 2.75 gallons of 10w30 is probably not going to give the oil 5W performance, but it may make a marginally better-performing 10W. What does your owner's manual recommend?
 
M-1 0w30...or even a M1 0w40.....might be a great year-round oil....instead of all that blending.

Advantages: Better cold start-ups....no blending....possibly a little better MPG....and (the 0w40) is considered by many BIOTG'ers as the 'gold standard' and one of the best 40 weights around....and, depending on your driving habits, extended OCI's.
 
Originally Posted By: BruceM
I have a 196k mile young 2000 7.3L Superduty, and for the winter I usually go to a lighter weight oil for ease of start ups in the cold. I work a night shift so my truck sits out in the coldest part of the night, no plug near by and it my truck is well overdue for an oil change.

Temps have been as low as -17F over night (happened last year) but temps of -1F are not uncommon. Previously I'd do straight 5w-40 T6 synthetic, but money is tight, really tight right now, so I was considering blending 2.75 gallons 10w30 with a jug of T6 5W-40 a buddy gave me free.

Thoughts?


Are you quoting wind chill temps? I don't know that you'll see routine temps that cold for ambient temps. Your average low temp is only +14 deg F according to weather.com. There is no way you get to -17 deg F on a routine basis; simply does not happen. Your temps are not really much colder than mine in the midwest. In fact, the "record low" for your area was only -23 deg, and that was just once. If you are looking at windchills; don't. They do not have any effects on engines or oil. They affect the RATE of cooling, but not the final temps. Does it occcasionally get below zero where you're at? Sure. But not on a routine basis.

All that in mind ...

I use dino 10w30 HDEO year round and survive just fine. You can use that with complete confidence as well. I have successfully used it down to -20 with no problems whatsoever. It's the least expensive option you have, and will achieve exactly what you seek. However, it can be, at times, hard to find (although it's getting easier with each passing year).

If you want the same performance as the T6, then know that the T5 semi-syn Shell 10w30 has the same cold crank rating as the 5w-40 T6, for a LOT less money. You certainly don't "need" a syn or semi-syn in your area, but if it makes you sleep better at night, then go for it, as the T5 might be the compromise you're looking for. Just make sure to extend your OCIs so that you get your money's worth, or you'll be wasting the very money you're trying to save.
 
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Bruce: I have used this mix the last 2 yrs... 2gal T5 10w30 & 2 gal T6 5W-40... I use the T5 for the fact WM has it for $16 a gallon...

My 7.3L really seems to like the mix... Esp in the winter... No Romping... Fast and easy Starts...

Now: granted my 7.3L has 289k miles on her... There is a little bit more blow by with the mix compared to reg 15w40... Also I also had to add around 1/2 gallon make up oil during my 5K mile OCI compared to none with 15w40... One more thing... I have a very small oil drip from the timing gear cover{2 drops over night with 15w40}--Seems like 6 to 10 drops over night with the T5 & T6 in the crankcase...

I will admit my 7.3L is a different beast with the T5 & T6 in the crankcase...Compared to the 15w40... I will not go back to 15w40... Pour in the mix and don't worry...
 
I guess what I don't understand is why use the T6 at all? His concern is cold starts right now, and he's not indicated that extended OCIs are the topic.

"... but money is tight, really tight ..."
The topic is money. Or, more specifically, what fluid will give him acceptable performance for the least cost?
Why spend more money on T6 when T5 will do everything T6 will do, for less money? (Or dino for even less money, for that matter?)

He's going to get good cranking speeds from a thinner oil; that is important with compression-ignition engines in winter. Also, the HEUI responds very well to thinner fluids in winter as well; quicker oil flow with less romp after started.

He would be "best" served with the least expensive 10w30 HDEO he can find.
 
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If we go back and look at the original post, BruceM was talking that he had a free gallon of 5W40 that he wanted to use. I read that as a one time thing but could be wrong in my interpretation.
 
Originally Posted By: Oregoonian
M-1 0w30...or even a M1 0w40.....might be a great year-round oil....instead of all that blending.

Advantages: Better cold start-ups....no blending....possibly a little better MPG....and (the 0w40) is considered by many BIOTG'ers as the 'gold standard' and one of the best 40 weights around....and, depending on your driving habits, extended OCI's.


Both of those fluids are CF rated, a pretty out dated diesel oil spec compared to CJ-4.
 
I would stay with the 5W40 Rotella unless you have the dough to buy another vehicle. If it runs fine on this syn, then I would not try and save a few dollars going to a thinner oil and with your miles, it could be detrimental...

Thats a nice truck, so spend the extra dollars to keep it running that way. This could save you some costly bills down the road. Goodluck with your decision.
 
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I'm not extending my OCI's cause I run vegetable oil for fuel. Rule of thumb for using vege is to actually reduce your OCI a bit because used vege oil and motor oil don't play well, and no matter how good the rings are there is always a bit of blow by in a diesel. I know my engine is in great shape blow by wise, and I'm not super concerned about vege mixing with the crankcase oil.

IIRC the OCI spec is 5k miles for the 7.3L engines, and I normally do a 4k oil change in the spring/summer/fall when running 15w40, good old dino Rotella or Delvac 1300, what ever has the best sale price when I stock up for the year. Granted I have gone to 5k with no ill effects on the engine and/or oil, but by 5k you start to notice the oil is about spent. The high pressure oil pump that feeds the injectors on the Powerstroke's is quite brutal on shearing the oil. So a combination of that shearing and the small amount of vege infiltration make me change closer to 4k, but it's more of a hey its been 4k or more, should plan to do this sometime sort of thing.

The T5 10w30 isn't available at every Walmart, I have only ever seen it at one in my general area. I would have gone that route if it was. I even have a hard time finding the Rotella white bottle 10w30 dino oil round here, sometimes it shows up and I grab a few gallons to stick on the shelf. The T6 is always available and I've loved it in the past, but $90 for the 4 gallons, is a tough pill to swallow right now. Hence wanting to blend 10w30 dino with the 5w40 synthetic, since I had a free jug. Though as luck would have it the Fram extraguard extreme whatever filter that my friend gave me too was $19 so I traded that in at Walmart last night for $2 out of pocket to have a second jug of 5w40 T6. so now I'll have a nice 50/50 blend of 10w30 and 5w40.

As to temps here in Albany, NY. Last year there was a really cold spell ad it was -17f one night and -5f the next. They aren't the normal lows at night, but they make it kinda rough on the truck with the thicker oil in there. Since the injectors are oil driven a thinner weight is helpful in getting the truck started and not doing the romp romp shake the whole truck cause only a few of the 8 injectors are firing. My glow plugs and glow plug solenoid are perfect, all have been tested with a multimeter. As it is I leave them disconnected from April till Mid October cause they aren't needed at all. The cold thick oil combines with 196k miles of use on the original injectors makes for some starting issues when cold and no available outlet to plug in. Last thing I really want is to be caught in the winter with my truck unable to start cause its too [censored] cold one night. I used 10w30 the first year I had it and it was fine for all but one night in the winter. The following year I did 5w40 and the truck starts much faster, and the injectors are quieter cause they aren't fighting that thick cold oil. For the winter a blend or 5w40 just makes sense since I'd rather not beat the [censored] out of the oil system every time I start it. Once the temps fall below 20F on my truck that's when the start up gets rough on 15w40, she'll start but not without complaining, loudly. Given the miles i put on the truck per year it usually works out that I a due for my winter oil change in late November when it starts getting colder. This mild winter so far I have pushed it back a bit, but I'm close to or at 5k now anyway.

Course now that I have a 50/50 blend for $2-3 outta pocket, I am sure I'll be covered for easy starting to at least -5F or so without listening to the injectors scream at me or get the romp romp action going till everything starts moving. Anyone seen how thick 15w40 gets in your home freezer? It is almost like jello, the lighter weights are never that bad.
 
Originally Posted By: -SyN-
Bruce: I have used this mix the last 2 yrs... 2gal T5 10w30 & 2 gal T6 5W-40... I use the T5 for the fact WM has it for $16 a gallon...

My 7.3L really seems to like the mix... Esp in the winter... No Romping... Fast and easy Starts...

Now: granted my 7.3L has 289k miles on her... There is a little bit more blow by with the mix compared to reg 15w40... Also I also had to add around 1/2 gallon make up oil during my 5K mile OCI compared to none with 15w40... One more thing... I have a very small oil drip from the timing gear cover{2 drops over night with 15w40}--Seems like 6 to 10 drops over night with the T5 & T6 in the crankcase...

I will admit my 7.3L is a different beast with the T5 & T6 in the crankcase...Compared to the 15w40... I will not go back to 15w40... Pour in the mix and don't worry...


Wanted to mention to ya, I put a Racor crank case filter separator on my truck, in place of the doghouse on the drivers side rear valve cover, made a HUGE HUGE HUGE difference in the amount of oil consumed between changes. I went from a little more than 1qt per 4000 miles, down to less than 1/2 quart per the same miles. Also my inter cooler pipes and silicone couplers stay SPOTLESS and dry. Granted it was a $250 investment, but between the clean pipes, boots, and less oil use, I felt it was worth it at the time. Unless I am going on a trip I don't even bother making up the ~1/2qt of oil between changes.
 
Thanks for the advice... Once I bought the 7.3L I read for weeks @ the dieselstop.com... I chose to take all the boots off and Tubes...As well as junk the stock air intake system and replace with a Donaldson AIS Superduty Air Intake System...

I also took out the intercooler and flushed with simple green many times... What an oily mess that was...

Anyway the intercooler tubes were nasty and oily as well as the boots were coated in oil...

Cleaned everything with simple green and installed back... Did the foil delete on the drivers side intercooler tube...

Then I vented the CCV to Atmosphere to keep that nasty [censored] out of the Intercooler and Turbo... Just a little blow by is noticeable... Feel so much better knowing that nasty stuff is not going back into the Turbo as well as the Intercooler...

This 7.3L has many mods... But these ones above I feel are very important...
Another very important mod that I did just for this winter oil change was add 2 bottles of Rev-X... I know oil additives are kind of a Taboo thing to talk about here and other internet sites... But this Product is legit... Just the VOA has proven that... After the first 1000 miles after the oil change the wife drove the truck, and came back and asked how much money I had spent to make the truck run that good... She had driven the 7.3L many times before and complained of the noise and vibration... Nothing else more to say...
 
Originally Posted By: BruceM
I'm not extending my OCI's cause I run vegetable oil for fuel. Rule of thumb for using vege is to actually reduce your OCI a bit because used vege oil and motor oil don't play well, and no matter how good the rings are there is always a bit of blow by in a diesel. I know my engine is in great shape blow by wise, and I'm not super concerned about vege mixing with the crankcase oil.

IIRC the OCI spec is 5k miles for the 7.3L engines, and I normally do a 4k oil change in the spring/summer/fall when running 15w40, good old dino Rotella or Delvac 1300, what ever has the best sale price when I stock up for the year. Granted I have gone to 5k with no ill effects on the engine and/or oil, but by 5k you start to notice the oil is about spent. The high pressure oil pump that feeds the injectors on the Powerstroke's is quite brutal on shearing the oil. So a combination of that shearing and the small amount of vege infiltration make me change closer to 4k, but it's more of a hey its been 4k or more, should plan to do this sometime sort of thing.

The T5 10w30 isn't available at every Walmart, I have only ever seen it at one in my general area. I would have gone that route if it was. I even have a hard time finding the Rotella white bottle 10w30 dino oil round here, sometimes it shows up and I grab a few gallons to stick on the shelf. The T6 is always available and I've loved it in the past, but $90 for the 4 gallons, is a tough pill to swallow right now. Hence wanting to blend 10w30 dino with the 5w40 synthetic, since I had a free jug. Though as luck would have it the Fram extraguard extreme whatever filter that my friend gave me too was $19 so I traded that in at Walmart last night for $2 out of pocket to have a second jug of 5w40 T6. so now I'll have a nice 50/50 blend of 10w30 and 5w40.

As to temps here in Albany, NY. Last year there was a really cold spell ad it was -17f one night and -5f the next. They aren't the normal lows at night, but they make it kinda rough on the truck with the thicker oil in there. Since the injectors are oil driven a thinner weight is helpful in getting the truck started and not doing the romp romp shake the whole truck cause only a few of the 8 injectors are firing. My glow plugs and glow plug solenoid are perfect, all have been tested with a multimeter. As it is I leave them disconnected from April till Mid October cause they aren't needed at all. The cold thick oil combines with 196k miles of use on the original injectors makes for some starting issues when cold and no available outlet to plug in. Last thing I really want is to be caught in the winter with my truck unable to start cause its too [censored] cold one night. I used 10w30 the first year I had it and it was fine for all but one night in the winter. The following year I did 5w40 and the truck starts much faster, and the injectors are quieter cause they aren't fighting that thick cold oil. For the winter a blend or 5w40 just makes sense since I'd rather not beat the [censored] out of the oil system every time I start it. Once the temps fall below 20F on my truck that's when the start up gets rough on 15w40, she'll start but not without complaining, loudly. Given the miles i put on the truck per year it usually works out that I a due for my winter oil change in late November when it starts getting colder. This mild winter so far I have pushed it back a bit, but I'm close to or at 5k now anyway.

Course now that I have a 50/50 blend for $2-3 outta pocket, I am sure I'll be covered for easy starting to at least -5F or so without listening to the injectors scream at me or get the romp romp action going till everything starts moving. Anyone seen how thick 15w40 gets in your home freezer? It is almost like jello, the lighter weights are never that bad.



You might have mentioned much of this at the beginning of the thread ...

Veggie oil for fuel? I don't know all the effects, but you seem to be having success, so that's great. How does that work for you in the cold? I would think that is much more of an issue than oil vis during cold starts.

You mentioned "... by 5k miles you start to notice the oil is about spent." How do you define, and judge, the term "spent"? Are you getting UOAs and have set some condemnation levels set, or are you just winging it and making a guess?

Dino Rotella 10w30 is available at any Walmart or Advance Auto Parts, but they may not be on the shelf; you may have to order them. Here is the info: Walmart # 004214359; AAP # 5073790 . You have both of these stores in your town. And probably other sources as well.

Does HEUI shear oil? Yes. It shears 15w40 down to a 30 grade. However, if you feed the engine 10w30 to start with, many PDS owners (7.3 and 6.0) have found that the oil will shear much less, if at all, if you start with a 30 grade. It's as if the HEUI simply prefers the thinner oil to start with. If you don't feed one, it will create one out of whatever you pour in. I am not the oil one to notice this effect.

As for your temps; Yes, it can get cold. Like I said, the coldest it ever got in your area was -23F. In Indy, near where I live, the record low is -35F. But those are not "normal" low temps. Your average low is +14 and mine is +18. Even considering an occasional dip down to zero, you simply do not get cold enough to be concerned about using a synthetic oil. Any 10w30 dino HDEO will easily do what you need, in your area. You have a VERY low percentage chance that you'd see -15F or less, statistically, and even when it does happen on rare occasions, your engine will not endure damage. Your greatest concern during cold is the HEUI being able to fire the injectors. 10w30 will help with this.

Can you use the one gallon of T6 with 10w30? Absolutely yes; won't hurt a thing. You might as well get the use out of what you have.

But going forward, I'd suggest you consider a thinner dino lube year round, if costs are your concern. I can assure you that dino 10w30 will protect your engine well if 4-5k mile OCIs are your goal. 10w30 will do everthing you want, all year round, for low-cost you seek. And there is UOA evidence, even in PSDs, to prove this point.
 
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All of the veggie oil conversions I know of put it in a separate tank and use a heat exchanger to heat the oil with engine coolant before sending it to the engine fuel system. The engine is started on diesel, and when the veggie oil reaches 160F, it is sent to the engine. Likewise, the engine has to be switched back to diesel a couple of minutes before shutdown to assure the veggie is purged before another ambient start is attempted.
 
A_Harman is correct in what he says about WVO (waste vege oil) setups, and mine is no different. 80gallon coolant heated in bed tank, coolant heated Davco 382 fuel filer, Fass HPFP @75psi fuel pump, purge solenoid to clear the heads of WVO before shutdown, and finally a 30in Arctic Fox thermalliner stainless tube in shell coolant based fuel heater. I switch to WVO at 140-150F based on the engine oil temp gauge I have on the Scangauge 2. Coolant temps are about 2 degrees cooler than the oil temps reported, and I've just been to lazy to install a seperate coolant temp gauge that is accurate, the one in the Scangauge xgauges does not report accurately on the 7.3L's it seems, and for that matter right now I can't even recall where the coolant temp sensor is even located on the 7.3L. Most digital combo gauges have you tap the oil temp wiring cause it's more accurate for gauging engine temps.

When I start up or shut down, I am on 100% ULSD or 90% ULSD 10% k-1 kero as we still can get low sulfur kerosene round here. The 10% kero (3 gallons or so) mixed in with the diesel puts back some of the sulfur the engine/injectors were designed to have. Might be my imagination but I swear the EGT gauge i have stopped showing random spikes like 1500F soon as I started adding a little LS K-1 in. For some odd reason the spikes were not there back a few years ago when you could still get 500ppm LSD at truck stops. anyhow i digress... shutdown on diesel is roll into my driveway on WVO, flip the diesel pump back on, turn WVO pump off, flip purge solenoid switch on for a 12 second count pushes about 16-20 ounces thru the fuel rails in the heads and back down the WVO fuel feed line. Idle truck for a minute, then shutoff. Usually takes 30 seconds for my EGTs to drop to the low 300's which before I did the WVO system was my "turbo cool down" before shutting off the truck. I have a remote starter that I need to wire in at some point that has a turbo timer built in and that would automate the cool down, and after purge idle for a minute to make sure all the WVO is out of the fuel passages in the injectors.

dnewton3 - yes most of the time the temps are fine around here that a 10w30 would be fine, year round even, and you are correct about the 15w40 shearing to a 30w in a HEUI system. Only reason to run 15w40 at all is that I usually jump in once a year when Mobil has their Delvac rebate deals. Means I get a good oil for 3 seasons of use without problems for ~$7-9 per gallon depending on the price on the shelf. Call me cheap, but I normally buy enough to max the rebate and have 2 15w40 oil changes on the shelf. I do occasionally spend time overnights in places colder than my home area, but even still the coldest nights (which are rare anyway) at usually not ever really lower than -5F. There is a HUGE difference in start up ease/speed when going to 5w40 for the winter, 10w30 seems to be almost as good, but 5w40 is really noticeable, ad like i originally was asking, I had 1 gallon free, now I have 2 gallons of 5w40 that cost me a total of $3 and a trip to WM, and I'll be blending that with the 10w30 I had previously picked up last time I saw it at a WM i was in. Of the WM near me, 1 sometimes has the 10w30 white bottle rotella in stock, and none ever seem to have the T5 10w30. Course if I drive 40 miles to a WM out by a friend of mine in Cobleskill, NY, they have the dino Rotella 15w40 & 10w30, the T5 10w30, and the T6 5w40, always stocked, but it's alot more rural out there and I imagine that there is more demand for the different weights. Pretty much the only time I need some 10w30 is the late fall/early winter oil change, so its a one time a year thing. This year money is tight for me at the time I needed to do the oil change. Before posting this thread I was considering taking 4 new jugs of Delvac 1300 15w45 back to WM to get store credit to put towards 2 gallons of 5w40.

Those really cold snaps that happen randomly, like last years couple nights -17 and -10 nights are statistically rare as you point out. Even when cold like that I'm not worried about damaging anything in the engine so much as going lighter weight oil really aids in startup and keeps the injectors happy (not screaming) from the cold cold oil. between the 200 or so amps the GP's suck out of the batteries, cold thicker oil, and turning over that engine, in the really cold statistically rare days it's comforting to know that I won't have a problem with quick starts to well beyond what the normal lows are.

As to the "spent" aspect, with the shearing of the HEUI system, one of the first signs it's time to change the oil is when you end up with bubbles in the oil on your dipstick. New oil till about almost 5k miles (depending on what you are using the truck for, towing heavy all the time seems to chew it up faster) you start getting bubbles from anti-foam agents breaking down in the oil. In any none HEUI system this wouldn't be a problem, but ar in the oil makes for fun when that oil is pressurized 500psi to 3200psi and fed to the injectors. Any PSD owner that works on thier own vehicle and has done anything where they open up the HUEI system will attest to the PITA air in there can be. Injectors won't fire fuel if there is air in there, which will eventually work its way out, but till it does you get missing and loud injectors. Also when one changes the oil on a7.3L PSD you miss the 2-3qts of old oil that is in the heads and HUEI pump reservoir, that oil cycles thru the engine and is mixed in with the new, but without going thru a time consuming process to get most of it out, you are already starting the new OCI with 1/2 a gallon or more old oil in there. This is why a PSD with a fresh oil change whil have the oil going black or at least much darker in a matter of minutes after starting up to check levels.

At some point I plan to buy and install a Webasto diesel fired parking heater to use as a coolant preheater, but thats a $700-800 investment I haven't budgeted for yet. But at 0.1 gallon of diesel to warm my truck to 150F in an hour, means I get on WVO almost immediately when I jump in and start the truck up. Currently via idling with the Ford add on idle controller and the exhaust back pressure warmup valve, it requires 15 min at 1200rpm to get me to 150F, in the winter. that uses about 1/3 a gallon of diesel, of if I just drive to warm up before switching to WVO I usually have to go about 5 miles, using around 1/2 to 3/4 of a gallon to get to WVO use temps. As it is I like to give the truck at least 5 min minimum to warm up from a dead cold start in the winter.

Course if I ever had the time and money to do it, I'd just have a WVO fired boiler in my garage (which my truck cant fit in anyway) and I'd use a domestic hot water coil to heat coolant to feed some quick connects on the front of the truck, that way the block would always be warm and I'd use almost no diesel....but that is going a little overboard, but would be a fun project to putz around with.
 
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