Blackstone says AT Should Outlive Chassis

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The only automatic that I have ever had to replace was the one in the wifes car. We did not get it until 104,000 miles and it had never been serviced. I think it made it to 140,000 before it died even with my serviceing it and such. The damage was already done. The few automatics I have owned from new have always lasted as long as the engine with no problems but I have always served then at 30,000 mile intervals unless the OEM recomendation was sooner then that! I had one automatic I built that I used for raceing then in a daily driver and it got it's ATF changed not less then every other oil change and that was a domestic 4 speed that was behind a Corvette motor.Then it the motor and trans went into a 4X4 that was used off road for all kinds of off roading all the time. Later it became the wifes daily river! Between the air locker up front and in the rear you could literaly light all four tires up! SO this was not treated nicely!When I sold the engine and transmission I sold them to a transmission shop. They told me they had never seen a transmission so clean and with such little wear inside. I told them I used cheap Dex-III and drained the pan every 3000-6000 miles. They put it back together with out doing anything to it even though it had 2 years of raceing and 3 years of regular use. The owner of the shop put it in his son's 4X4. The engine went into a Resto-mod car.

When I worked at GM most of the guys at GM Flint Truck and Bus where lucky to get about 70K-80K between transmissions replacements and none of them ever changed the fluid since GM had it listed as a 100K item.

One lady I knew had 400,000 on an AWD GMC Safari Van. THe engine had 400,000 miles on it the transfer case had 300,000 and this was her 4th transimmison. She never got more then 100K out of any of the transmissions. So I started asking her what her maintence was like.... Her Dad used Amsoil with the bypass filter and did 25,000 mile oci's, all the gear lubes where amsoil and where changed every 25,000 miles with the oil. The transfer case was on the same schedule after the first one failed out of warranty. She said her Dad never did anything but top up the ATF since he had always been told that if you changed the ATF fluid the transmission would fail soon after wards! So I asked her if that made any sense since all the parts that where serviced on a regular basis useing AMsoil where lasting. So I told her to have her Dad drop the pan on that transmission at 10K and put Amsoil in then to do it every 50K with Amsoil and it would last longer then any of the other transmissions.This gal never needed another transmission. She drove all HWY miles and drove something like 100 miles each way to and from work. I ran into her when ever I had to Vistit Willow Run GM SPO warhouse for quality control issue's.
 
Excluding abuse and OE underengineering, IMO, maintenance is a must for improving AT life. My drivetrains last longer then the vehicles they come in.
 
My mom had an Eagle Summit and the AT only lasted around 80,000 miles.

I have worked on several Chrysler minivans where the transmission fails before 100K, because the transmission casing cracks.

I don't believe it when people tell me that just changing the fluid a little more frequently makes the AT last forever. It helps but it isn't 100% of the story.
 
hold up i know plenty of toyota auto transmissions that are doing great way over 150k miles. regular maintenance and treat it with some common sense and they last... esp the tacomas and 4 runner transmissions from the late 90's - 2004
 
Automatic transmissions are so complex and have so many possible parts that can fail and end their service life that no one ever knows for sure if their trans will last 1 more day or another 100k. But what we do know is that heat, contamination and fluid degradation WILL cause them to fail. This is the one area that the typical DIYer can address by himself at reasonable cost. SO it makes sense to attempt to lengthen the service life of such an expensive component on your vehicle for as long as possible. Me...30k OCI's for all AT's. So far never a failure.
 
I've wondered for years why transmissions fail way before the engine in every case for me personally. I've NEVER had an engine just wear out or fail. But I've bought several transmissions..and I DO perform the maintenance WAY more often than the manufacturer recommend in EVERY case.

Simple fact of life- transmissions apparently just aren't designed as well as engines.

Back in the late 70's had a Ford Fairmont Wagon with the 302 and auto. Transmission failed at 40,000 miles. I was livid. Local trans shop couldn't believe it failed at 40,000, said most failed WAY before that
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Then bought one at 75,000 for an 86 Ford Club Wagon. Had one replaced at 95,000 in an early 90's Taurus, just this week had a trans fail in a 97 Taurus, 150,000 and zero engine problems. I've NEVER had an engine wearout or fail internally. I'd have to say Blackstone is full of poop on this one....
 
I agree, maintenance is key.

My 1995 Explorer had the original unrebuilt transmission. The fluid was changed every 30K or so with a couple of pan drops. It still shifted great at 158,000 miles when I got rid of it. It never slipped or anything. The previous owner towed a boat with it frequently and the thing didn't even have an external transmission cooler. Regular fluid changes kept it happy for 13 years and AFAIK it is still on the road.

As you can probably tell by this pic, my Explorer was NOT babied, just maintained...
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I got rid of it because of rust BTW, it was a PA truck and needed a lot of rust repair.

My Ranger is getting full synthetic put in today. Its transmission is related to the one in the Explorer, and it has an external cooler, so I hope I'll get good mileage out of it. I am pretty hard on the truck when I drive it, but I maintain it accordingly. That seemed to work fine with my Explorer and previous Ranger (though it had a manual).
 
Honda has certainly proven that they are the masters of producing transmissions which consistently defy the general rule that maintenance will extend service life.

The Odyssey/Pilot 4-speed and 5-speed transmissions are so bad that one recall covered over 1,200,000 units, the next recall 600,000. That means bad design and bad engineering, even if the assemblers in Ohio did everything "right". That means UNTESTED by the manufacturer. That means they sent those trans units to production and into the garages of consumers without doing their jobs. They turned the buyer into the beta test.

My friend went through FOUR transmissions on his 2001 Odyssey. The oil jet bandaid recall did nothing to extend the life of the first "fix" and he has been plagued with gear failures and lock-ups, one happening to his wife, with baby in car, in middle of bad intersection. They bought their van, btw, with the gushing endorsement of Consumer Reports, who still shows no transmission problems for these vehicles in their ratings.

If the cluctch systems actually last long enough on these Honda trans, then they will just suffer gear failure. No uber-lubricant can forestall it, even if you changed it daily. Under-design, under-specification and light construction equals failure in a transmission. A prudent level of over-design (or at least a sufficiently specified level of engineering) combined with proper maintenance, can make for a 100,000+ mi transmission service life. And there are big Allison automatics in heavy construction equipment that can take stresses that you can't even imagine. But when you glue a weak transmission to a car/van/SUV platform, prepare for disaster.

Honda does make a fine engine, no question about it. But if your Honda trans is holding up, you are fortunate.
 
But we are still stretching the transmission fluid out. People are saying they change every 30k as extra maintenance yet how often do you take engine oil that long, yes engines have combustion byproducts and are not as well sealed. But I think engine oil is more robust than transmission fluid. Also transmission fluid has to lubricate clean and have the correct level of friction for clutch engagement as well as dissipate heat for the entire unit, does the oil degrade, yes since most band aids for transmission problems have prompted much better atf fluids to be developed. I still think we are behind times on interval of fluid change. I do at least a pan drop and filter change every 10k, which is 35% of my fluid. I also installed a transmission pan drain plug so every 5k I could drain the pan without a filter change, is this obsessive, yes. Maybe my transmission will last longer maybe not who knows, I know it is NOT hurting it though to always have pristine new fluid available to protect the transmission
 
Originally Posted By: Sylvatica
My friend went through FOUR transmissions on his 2001 Odyssey. The oil jet bandaid recall did nothing to extend the life of the first "fix" and he has been plagued with gear failures and lock-ups, one happening to his wife, with baby in car, in middle of bad intersection. They bought their van, btw, with the gushing endorsement of Consumer Reports, who still shows no transmission problems for these vehicles in their ratings.

If the clutch systems actually last long enough on these Honda trans, then they will just suffer gear failure. No uber-lubricant can forestall it, even if you changed it daily. Under-design, under-specification and light construction equals failure in a transmission. A prudent level of over-design (or at least a sufficiently specified level of engineering) combined with proper maintenance, can make for a 100,000+ mi transmission service life. And there are big Allison automatics in heavy construction equipment that can take stresses that you can't even imagine. But when you glue a weak transmission to a car/van/SUV platform, prepare for disaster.

Honda does make a fine engine, no question about it. But if your Honda trans is holding up, you are fortunate.

If you friend's transmission had the oil jet recall, it couldn't possibly be a 2001. It must have been a 2002, 2003 or an early 2004 model. The 99-01 model Odysseys had a four-speed automatic that was not affected by the 2nd gear problem.

Consumer Reports does show Honda's transmission problems in their ratings, but as expected, still considers them as "good bets" for used cars.
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The gear failures have not been a problem with the five-speed automatics ever since the internal oil jet was added. The clutch problems were corrected in 2004 with the V6 models. There have been very few transmission failures with the V6 units since 2004. The five-speed automatics that were paired to the four-cylinders have always been bulletproof.
 
Originally Posted By: Tempest
Out of curiosity Critic, where do you get your failure rate information from?

From the forums I moderate and the Honda/Acura technicians that I personally know.
 
I have a A341E - the Lexus version of the A340E with lock-up control with 222K that's still working great. I change the ATF every 2nd oil change, with genuine Toyota ATF which isn't much more than MLATF.

And if Honda still has transmissions dropping like flies, they should suck it up and buy from Toyota(Aisin-AW) or Nissan(Jatco) for V6 transmissions. Honda's automated manual design is fine for a Civic, Fit, or an Accord I4, but they've dropped it big time on the V6s. My neighbor went through 2 transmissions on her Odyssey before getting a 2007 Pilot. I see techs at work replace V6 transmissions regularly.

Toyota too dropped the ball on the U1x1x transmissions used in the Camry/Avalon/Solara/ES3x0/Sienna/Highlander/RX3x0, but that partly has to do with people listening to Toyota's "lifetime" ATF [censored], I too change the ATF on the 'rents Sienna every 2nd oil change.
 
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So then, on a related note, to extend the life of your transmission you should:

1) have an air cooled transmission cooler
2) use synthetic atf
3) drain pan (usually 4qts) every 15k to 30k.

agree or disagree?????
 
Originally Posted By: mikeinaustin
So then, on a related note, to extend the life of your transmission you should:

1) have an air cooled transmission cooler
2) use synthetic atf
3) drain pan (usually 4qts) every 15k to 30k.

agree or disagree?????


And a Magnefine or similar external filter. If you have a Magnefine you might get away with extending the ATF for closer to 50K, but I might do a UOA at 30K or 40K.
 
I would have to agree that the A/T is the weak link in modern automobiles. (more so in certain brands ie: Honda) I believe that as A/T's became more complex they also became less durable. The older ATs of the 60s and 70s were just as durable as the motors IMO. I also believe that many AT's would last longer if driven properly. I can't tell you how many times I've seen friends throw it into DRIVE while the car was still moving backwards (or throw it into REVERSE while still moving forward)
I started a thread a few years back about AT longevity because
I am curious how many people make it past 200 or 300K on modern ATs w/o an overhaul.
 
Originally Posted By: pbm

I would have to agree that the A/T is the weak link in modern automobiles. (more so in certain brands ie: Honda) I believe that as A/T's became more complex they also became less durable. The older ATs of the 60s and 70s were just as durable as the motors IMO. I also believe that many AT's would last longer if driven properly. I can't tell you how many times I've seen friends throw it into DRIVE while the car was still moving backwards (or throw it into REVERSE while still moving forward)
I started a thread a few years back about AT longevity because
I am curious how many people make it past 200 or 300K on modern ATs w/o an overhaul.

People seem to be getting over 200k on the Honda 5-speed automatics quite easily. Of course, these are the ones that are paired with the 4-cylinder.
 
My dad took regular care of the AT in mom's 1994 Mitsubishi Expo, too bad the AT still died at 85,000 miles.

Many Chryslers and Mitsubishis were the same. That is why I would never buy one.

Many people tell me Subaru builds a durable AT, but I haven't seen many Subarus in Florida, since AWD is almost never needed here.
 
I have nearly 120k on my Civic AT with Amsoil ATF for that period of mileage. Knocking on wood. Change it every 50-65k and I'm due in 2k when I hit 150k total vehicle miles.
Two things to take care of: Your heart, and your AT.
 
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