Bitcoin for the win!
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Originally Posted By: AZjeff
If you use bitcoin as currency, does the price of the item automatically adjust based on the current value or do you end up paying the equivalent of $25 for your starbucks or whatever if you don't know the current valuation?
One would think a retailer accepting Bitcoin would do a reasonable conversion. Of course, "reasonable" includes their unreasonable cut, just like an unreasonable exchange rate.
ZZman: The value is partially speculation, and it's also important that people think it has value. Its scarcity is due to the computing resources to create it.
If you use bitcoin as currency, does the price of the item automatically adjust based on the current value or do you end up paying the equivalent of $25 for your starbucks or whatever if you don't know the current valuation?
One would think a retailer accepting Bitcoin would do a reasonable conversion. Of course, "reasonable" includes their unreasonable cut, just like an unreasonable exchange rate.
ZZman: The value is partially speculation, and it's also important that people think it has value. Its scarcity is due to the computing resources to create it.
Originally Posted By: dnewton3
..... bitcoin, versus the "evil" of Wall Street. Bitcoin, in my mind, is just the millennial version of stock trading. The value isn't in the product itself; it's in the perception of what others see in it. Just like a stock certificate ...
Well, a stock certificate is personal property, but it does evidence fractional ownership of whatever property, tangible or intangible, real, personal, or mixed, the issuer may own, or have rights to. Depending on the issuer, you could sell it, swap it, or get a loan against it if you had too.
I don't know much about Bitcoin - it doesn't seem to represent ownership of anything, it's not a currency that you can use in daily life, it has no innate value, it's just nothing. Who would want to buy or own that? I wouldn't take it in payment for services or goods. I don't know what a bank would do if I told them I wanted to borrow against my bitcoin. Maybe some avant garde institution with on site hipsters would do it.
I thought I read somewhere, maybe here, that even generating the numbers was a losing proposition in many places because of electric costs.
..... bitcoin, versus the "evil" of Wall Street. Bitcoin, in my mind, is just the millennial version of stock trading. The value isn't in the product itself; it's in the perception of what others see in it. Just like a stock certificate ...
Well, a stock certificate is personal property, but it does evidence fractional ownership of whatever property, tangible or intangible, real, personal, or mixed, the issuer may own, or have rights to. Depending on the issuer, you could sell it, swap it, or get a loan against it if you had too.
I don't know much about Bitcoin - it doesn't seem to represent ownership of anything, it's not a currency that you can use in daily life, it has no innate value, it's just nothing. Who would want to buy or own that? I wouldn't take it in payment for services or goods. I don't know what a bank would do if I told them I wanted to borrow against my bitcoin. Maybe some avant garde institution with on site hipsters would do it.
I thought I read somewhere, maybe here, that even generating the numbers was a losing proposition in many places because of electric costs.
Originally Posted By: Win
Well, a stock certificate is personal property, but it does evidence fractional ownership of whatever property, tangible or intangible, real, personal, or mixed, the issuer may own, or have rights to. Depending on the issuer, you could sell it, swap it, or get a loan against it if you had too.
I don't know much about Bitcoin - it doesn't seem to represent ownership of anything, it's not a currency that you can use in daily life, it has no innate value, it's just nothing. Who would want to buy or own that? I wouldn't take it in payment for services or goods. I don't know what a bank would do if I told them I wanted to borrow against my bitcoin. Maybe some avant garde institution with on site hipsters would do it.
Most of them would say "what's bitcoin?" Ha. Not sure it makes sense to borrow against another currency, though. Why not just exchange it for whatever currency you need...or just use it? If you had a stockpile of Canadian currency, would you borrow against it or just exchange it for USD?
Originally Posted By: Win
I thought I read somewhere, maybe here, that even generating the numbers was a losing proposition in many places because of electric costs.
Completely depends on the hardware and your electric costs. There's some hardware that can produce double digit (USD) profits per day, while others can lose money. There are calculators online that can determine profitability.
Well, a stock certificate is personal property, but it does evidence fractional ownership of whatever property, tangible or intangible, real, personal, or mixed, the issuer may own, or have rights to. Depending on the issuer, you could sell it, swap it, or get a loan against it if you had too.
I don't know much about Bitcoin - it doesn't seem to represent ownership of anything, it's not a currency that you can use in daily life, it has no innate value, it's just nothing. Who would want to buy or own that? I wouldn't take it in payment for services or goods. I don't know what a bank would do if I told them I wanted to borrow against my bitcoin. Maybe some avant garde institution with on site hipsters would do it.
Most of them would say "what's bitcoin?" Ha. Not sure it makes sense to borrow against another currency, though. Why not just exchange it for whatever currency you need...or just use it? If you had a stockpile of Canadian currency, would you borrow against it or just exchange it for USD?
Originally Posted By: Win
I thought I read somewhere, maybe here, that even generating the numbers was a losing proposition in many places because of electric costs.
Completely depends on the hardware and your electric costs. There's some hardware that can produce double digit (USD) profits per day, while others can lose money. There are calculators online that can determine profitability.
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Originally Posted By: Win
I don't know what a bank would do if I told them I wanted to borrow against my bitcoin.
If a bank were being rigorous, and sensible, they'd say no. After all, bitcoin is supposed to be currency. Why would you want to borrow currency when you already have it? Banks, at least here, don't tend to let you use cash as collateral for a loan, so having bitcoin would be no different, since you could convert it to another currency or spend it at will, just as if I used a U.S. dollar savings account as collateral. It could disappear tomorrow.
As for electrical costs, yes, production of bitcoins is very marginal for obvious reasons.
I don't know what a bank would do if I told them I wanted to borrow against my bitcoin.
If a bank were being rigorous, and sensible, they'd say no. After all, bitcoin is supposed to be currency. Why would you want to borrow currency when you already have it? Banks, at least here, don't tend to let you use cash as collateral for a loan, so having bitcoin would be no different, since you could convert it to another currency or spend it at will, just as if I used a U.S. dollar savings account as collateral. It could disappear tomorrow.
As for electrical costs, yes, production of bitcoins is very marginal for obvious reasons.
More explanation of the Bitcoin system:
https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Main_Page
https://bitcoin.org/en/bitcoin-paper
https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Main_Page
https://bitcoin.org/en/bitcoin-paper
Which BITOG members are invested in Bitcoin ?
I'm not.
I'm not.
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Is Lowe's or Costco (or any big retailer) going to let someone pay in Bitcoin? It sounds like a pretty exclusive way to pay and only people with the Bitcoin electronic "wallet" are able to use this payment system.
list of retailers who accept bitcoin
https://www.benzinga.com/news/17/08/9895237/the-major-services-and-retailers-that-accept-bitcoin
https://99bitcoins.com/who-accepts-bitcoins-payment-companies-stores-take-bitcoins/
https://steemit.com/bitcoin/@steemitguide/2017-top-list-of-big-companies-that-accept-bitcoin-and-cryptocurrencies
https://www.lifewire.com/big-sites-that-accept-bitcoin-payments-3485965
Is Lowe's or Costco (or any big retailer) going to let someone pay in Bitcoin? It sounds like a pretty exclusive way to pay and only people with the Bitcoin electronic "wallet" are able to use this payment system.
list of retailers who accept bitcoin
https://www.benzinga.com/news/17/08/9895237/the-major-services-and-retailers-that-accept-bitcoin
https://99bitcoins.com/who-accepts-bitcoins-payment-companies-stores-take-bitcoins/
https://steemit.com/bitcoin/@steemitguide/2017-top-list-of-big-companies-that-accept-bitcoin-and-cryptocurrencies
https://www.lifewire.com/big-sites-that-accept-bitcoin-payments-3485965
Originally Posted By: AZjeff
If you use bitcoin as currency, does the price of the item automatically adjust based on the current value or do you end up paying the equivalent of $25 for your starbucks or whatever if you don't know the current valuation?
Like any other currency, the exchange rate is based on the time of the transaction. Or you can go to a bitcoin exchange and convert from Bitcoin (or Etherium etc.) to your preferred currency. Like any currency exchange, they are going to take a commission. There are also plenty of horror stories of somebody buying something when Bitcoin was $100 a few years ago, and now realizing that the $10 Super Grande whatever cost them $1430 in today's exchange rate.
If you use bitcoin as currency, does the price of the item automatically adjust based on the current value or do you end up paying the equivalent of $25 for your starbucks or whatever if you don't know the current valuation?
Like any other currency, the exchange rate is based on the time of the transaction. Or you can go to a bitcoin exchange and convert from Bitcoin (or Etherium etc.) to your preferred currency. Like any currency exchange, they are going to take a commission. There are also plenty of horror stories of somebody buying something when Bitcoin was $100 a few years ago, and now realizing that the $10 Super Grande whatever cost them $1430 in today's exchange rate.
Originally Posted By: Al
Originally Posted By: OneEyeJack
Money does not come from nowhere (pardon the grammar). If you win someone else must be losing.
Sucks to be them. My son started it years ago. He is closing in on $100,000
Sell !!! Put it in writing so you can rub it in his face in a few years.
Originally Posted By: OneEyeJack
Money does not come from nowhere (pardon the grammar). If you win someone else must be losing.
Sucks to be them. My son started it years ago. He is closing in on $100,000
Sell !!! Put it in writing so you can rub it in his face in a few years.
Guys watch the Netfix documentary "banking with Bitcoin" Its a few year old but will answer your questions.
Originally Posted By: rubberchicken
Originally Posted By: Al
Originally Posted By: OneEyeJack
Money does not come from nowhere (pardon the grammar). If you win someone else must be losing.
Sucks to be them. My son started it years ago. He is closing in on $100,000
Sell !!! Put it in writing so you can rub it in his face in a few years.
Not really a big deal for him. It could go to zero and I doubt it would faze him much. I guess that's why I will never be wealthy. I am a risk avoider.
Originally Posted By: Al
Originally Posted By: OneEyeJack
Money does not come from nowhere (pardon the grammar). If you win someone else must be losing.
Sucks to be them. My son started it years ago. He is closing in on $100,000
Sell !!! Put it in writing so you can rub it in his face in a few years.
Not really a big deal for him. It could go to zero and I doubt it would faze him much. I guess that's why I will never be wealthy. I am a risk avoider.
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There's just a story on the news how Bitcoin went up to over $15,000 today, going up $3,000 in less than a day, and in light of a big Bitcoin theft. Some people are doing well, I guess.
this post is actually true.
as some of you might know, bitcoin is just one type of digital currency but there are others (litecoin, etc). if you wanted to, you could create your own using open source software. whether or not anyone would have interest in it is another story.
however, having said that, a friend at work decided to create his own cryptocurrency. his coin is a bit better than most of the others out there including bitcoin (a lot faster confirmation times by design). there are others who generally do this as well. most of the software he used was open source, but he did write some of it himself.
anyway he released his coin this year and now he has a market cap of about $50 million. not bad for 6 months work! and yes,
he just quit work this week.
as some of you might know, bitcoin is just one type of digital currency but there are others (litecoin, etc). if you wanted to, you could create your own using open source software. whether or not anyone would have interest in it is another story.
however, having said that, a friend at work decided to create his own cryptocurrency. his coin is a bit better than most of the others out there including bitcoin (a lot faster confirmation times by design). there are others who generally do this as well. most of the software he used was open source, but he did write some of it himself.
anyway he released his coin this year and now he has a market cap of about $50 million. not bad for 6 months work! and yes,
he just quit work this week.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-12-12/bi...tricity/9246888
Quote:
In recent months, the Bitcoin bubble has got massively bigger and the associated waste of energy is now much more widely recognised.
What is Bitcoin?
A digital cryptocurrency
It operates on a decentralised peer-to-peer network, with no central authority or government backing
They can be bought with fiat currencies like Australian dollars from online exchanges or created through mining
In essence, the creation of a new Bitcoin requires the performance of a complex calculation that has no value except to show that it has been done.
The crucial feature, as is common in cryptography, is that the calculation in question is very hard to perform but easy to verify once it's done.
At present, the most widely used estimate of the energy required to "mine" Bitcoins is comparable to the electricity usage of New Zealand, but this is probably an underestimate.
If allowed to continue unchecked in our current energy-constrained, climate-threatened world, Bitcoin mining will become an environmental disaster.
LOL
Investors have always made money out of mining virgin areas.
That Bitcoin is mining energy is priceless.
https://steemit.com/cryptocurrency/@aadyashakti/you-can-buy-tesla-electric-cars-for-50-bitcoin
Quote:
In recent months, the Bitcoin bubble has got massively bigger and the associated waste of energy is now much more widely recognised.
What is Bitcoin?
A digital cryptocurrency
It operates on a decentralised peer-to-peer network, with no central authority or government backing
They can be bought with fiat currencies like Australian dollars from online exchanges or created through mining
In essence, the creation of a new Bitcoin requires the performance of a complex calculation that has no value except to show that it has been done.
The crucial feature, as is common in cryptography, is that the calculation in question is very hard to perform but easy to verify once it's done.
At present, the most widely used estimate of the energy required to "mine" Bitcoins is comparable to the electricity usage of New Zealand, but this is probably an underestimate.
If allowed to continue unchecked in our current energy-constrained, climate-threatened world, Bitcoin mining will become an environmental disaster.
LOL
Investors have always made money out of mining virgin areas.
That Bitcoin is mining energy is priceless.
https://steemit.com/cryptocurrency/@aadyashakti/you-can-buy-tesla-electric-cars-for-50-bitcoin
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Is Lowe's or Costco (or any big retailer) going to let someone pay in Bitcoin? It sounds like a pretty exclusive way to pay and only people with the Bitcoin electronic "wallet" are able to use this payment system.
Think about your statement. Many, many years ago, someone might have asked the following question ...
"Is Lowe's or Costco (or any big retailer) going to let someone pay with a credit card?"
Yes, retailers are jumping on, and its getting easy to pay, just remember, once upon a time, it took time for credit cards to get processed. I think Craiglist now gives the seller the option to list bitcoin as payment too.
BTW - Microsoft has started accepting bitcoin, also Subway, Expedia, Newegg, Dish Network to name a few, just google who accepts bitcoin for payment. Sooner or later bigger name will too or the little guy would be able to take over ... an "electronic wallet" is the same as Apple Pay or Android ...
Dont get me wrong, like anything new, hicups abound, but its moving along pretty fast
Is Lowe's or Costco (or any big retailer) going to let someone pay in Bitcoin? It sounds like a pretty exclusive way to pay and only people with the Bitcoin electronic "wallet" are able to use this payment system.
Think about your statement. Many, many years ago, someone might have asked the following question ...
"Is Lowe's or Costco (or any big retailer) going to let someone pay with a credit card?"
Yes, retailers are jumping on, and its getting easy to pay, just remember, once upon a time, it took time for credit cards to get processed. I think Craiglist now gives the seller the option to list bitcoin as payment too.
BTW - Microsoft has started accepting bitcoin, also Subway, Expedia, Newegg, Dish Network to name a few, just google who accepts bitcoin for payment. Sooner or later bigger name will too or the little guy would be able to take over ... an "electronic wallet" is the same as Apple Pay or Android ...
Dont get me wrong, like anything new, hicups abound, but its moving along pretty fast
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Originally Posted By: OneEyeJack
Money does not come from nowhere (pardon the grammar). If you win someone else must be losing.
Bitcoin is nothing more or less then digital gold.
Neither one has any value if the public doesnt buy it or want it.
So its not wining or losing, you either own it or not. Like gold, it goes up and down in value.
However for Bitcoin, unlike gold, the value is in name only, its a "brand" and the standard for which all others are based.
Money does not come from nowhere (pardon the grammar). If you win someone else must be losing.
Bitcoin is nothing more or less then digital gold.
Neither one has any value if the public doesnt buy it or want it.
So its not wining or losing, you either own it or not. Like gold, it goes up and down in value.
However for Bitcoin, unlike gold, the value is in name only, its a "brand" and the standard for which all others are based.
Originally Posted By: Alfred_B
This reminds me of the Tulip Mania
I was just going to post the same thing.
I don't feel sorry for whomever gets stuck with worthless Bitcoins when it crashes.
This reminds me of the Tulip Mania
I was just going to post the same thing.
I don't feel sorry for whomever gets stuck with worthless Bitcoins when it crashes.
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