Big Ford EV Announcement Coming Aug 11th

[ProbeGT]

Remedy is known. Water seal failure.

That doesn't change the fact the countless motors failed. Sometimes over and over again in the same car. How's that for Tesla owner experience? A hassle even under warranty with the long wait for repair. Let alone after warranty. It took until 2023 for Tesla to finally properly redesign the LDU.

You believe what BYD says? They don't have a track record to back up their claim, other than BYD busses catching fire.

I'm quoting xAI. Last I checked, xAI and Tesla share the same CEO. If it wasn't true, I'm sure he would've fine-tuned the model to answer differently.
It's not like YT isn't full of videos of Tesla battery fires as well. BYD cars are being sold all around the world. If anything, BYD battery technology is safer than Tesla's.

"While both BYD and Tesla EV batteries can experience fires, BYD's Blade battery, a lithium iron phosphate (LFP) battery, is generally considered safer than Tesla's NMC (Nickel Manganese Cobalt) batteries due to its inherent stability and resistance to thermal runaway."

 

[Trav]

Tesla is using BYD batteries in some models so there's that.

 

[demarpaint]

Tesla is using BYD batteries in some models so there's that.

Sometimes if you can't beat em' you join them.

 

[JeffKeryk]

Completely off the mark there. As per Grok (xAI): EV Battery Degradation Rates:

• Tesla: 1–2% annual capacity loss (NMC), ~80–90% retention after 200,000 miles. Heat generation and fast charging accelerate fade.
• BYD: <1% annual loss (LFP), ~95–98% retention after 600,000–800,000 miles. Better thermal management and stable chemistry reduce degradation.

Question for you: How many BYD batteries, or any car batteries, have 600,000 or more miles?
I find that fascinating!

 

[jghall00]

Not true, especially the 7% annual gain in range. Simple math says that a 7% range improvement over 12 years yields a multiplier of 2.25 (=1.07^12). Let's compare that with the real world. In 2013, the longest range Tesla Model S (P85) had an EPA range of 265 miles. By your claim, a 2024 Tesla Model S (longest range model) should have an EPA range of 596 (=265x2.25) miles!

The acutal EPA range of a 2024 Tesla Model S LR100 is only 402 miles. In addition, a large portion of the increased range can be attributed to advances unrelated to batteries, such as drivetrain efficiency, aerodynamics, etc. So the improvement in range is much smaller than you claim, roughly 3.5% annually, and only part of that can be attributed to battery tech improvements.

Not affordable. The BYD Dolphin costs USD 13,700 in China. That's affordable. In Australia, it costs the equivalent of USD 19,800 after all taxes and fees.

Apologies, very bad math on my part. I just took the range increase and divided by the number of years. I didn't account for any compounding. 402 - 265 = 137. 137 / 12 = ~10%. I don't recall how I came up with the lower percentage, as it was several years ago. But clearly your number is closer to correct. I did the real math including compounding and came up with 4.2% assuming 10 years, as I did the original estimate several years ago. This is just range, not accounting for vehicle cost or battery size. The Model S pricing has stayed relatively flat while range has increase substantially. So really bad math and poor comparison all around.

Regarding affordability, that Dolphin doesn't account for per capita income or consumer purchasing power, which is far lower in China. It also doesn't account for the capability or size of the vehicle. The long range Model 3 is rating at 629 km (390 miles) in Australia and 363 miles in the U.S. So assuming for sake of argument that WLTP conversion translates to a Dolphin, it would be rated at ~316 miles in the U.S. The cheapest Equinox is rated at 319. so there's definitely some parity as far as range. But the Dolphin is also a much smaller vehicle.

A better comparison would remove other vehicle characteristics from the comparison. Here's a battery price chart.

 

[Rmay635703]

Tesla is using BYD batteries in some models so there's that.

Under pain of death with an embedded employee you can get good parts that meet spec, but for everyone else it doesn’t happen

 

[Rmay635703]

Question for you: How many BYD batteries, or any car batteries, have 600,000 or more miles?
I find that fascinating!

There is a famous 2012 volt that went 438,000 miles then had statir issues and got sold to a French Canadian dealer as a courtesy car, I believe it had over 500,000 miles on its battery during the last update

 

[SwampSurvivor]

I am not smart enough to know what the future holds but if I were a Ford shareholder I would be concerned that they are sticking with EVs when much of the business case (ie the support in the form of the IRA and various tax credits) has been removed. I would think hybrids are a safer bet but at the same time I understand that it may be a hard segment to crack given Toyota’s domination of it and the low cost EV may be a big hit in foreign markets.

Again time will tell. Would be nice if the politicians could figure out a way to compromise a bit so business does not have the rug pulled out from under it every four years.

I think the rug has been pulled for the final time. There's no indication that we'll be allowed to change directions on that front going forwards. We were promised to never have to worry about that again.

Consumer sentiment, however, seems to favor EVs.

We were considering one but with all the uncertainty going on, my old fleet of junkers is cheaper to keep going than dropping cash on something new.

 

[ProbeGT]

Question for you: How many BYD batteries, or any car batteries, have 600,000 or more miles?
I find that fascinating!

Likely none. I certainly take those claims with a big grain of salt. That said, there is anecdotal evidence from a few Tesla owners who have BYD LFP batteries that the degradation is in fact slower compared to Nickel-Cobalt batteries. Degradation is one thing but failure rate is also important. I haven't seen any data on failures. There must be some taxi fleets in Asia who have the data.

 

[alarmguy]

I am not smart enough to know what the future holds but if I were a Ford shareholder I would be concerned that they are sticking with EVs when much of the business case (ie the support in the form of the IRA and various tax credits) has been removed. I would think hybrids are a safer bet but at the same time I understand that it may be a hard segment to crack given Toyota’s domination of it and the low cost EV may be a big hit in foreign markets.

Again time will tell. Would be nice if the politicians could figure out a way to compromise a bit so business does not have the rug pulled out from under it every four years.

That’s the point.
We don’t need politicians to be involved. Finally, they no longer are.
Let the market decide what type of vehicles Americans want to buy. I shouldn’t have to subsidize purchase prices for other people

 

[jghall00]

That said, there is anecdotal evidence from a few Tesla owners who have BYD LFP batteries that the degradation is in fact slower compared to Nickel-Cobalt batteries. Degradation is one thing but failure rate is also important. I haven't seen any data on failures. There must be some taxi fleets in Asia who have the data.

My EVE LFP cells are rated to retain 70% for 8,000 cycles. That would translate to over 500,000 miles in a vehicle.

 

[RBT]

That’s the point.
We don’t need politicians to be involved. Finally, they no longer are.
Let the market decide what type of vehicles Americans want to buy. I shouldn’t have to subsidize purchase prices for other people

Agree. But there is a reliance issue when policies change back and forth.

 

[SammyChevelleTypeS3]

That’s the point.
We don’t need politicians to be involved. Finally, they no longer are.
Let the market decide what type of vehicles Americans want to buy. I shouldn’t have to subsidize purchase prices for other people

"They" no longer are for now. Let us all hope and pray "they" stop manipulation of consumers and let markets drive things going forward.

 

[alarmguy]

"They" no longer are for now. Let us all hope and pray "they" stop manipulation of consumers and let markets drive things going forward.

Yeah, I know. I try to block that thought out of my mind because we know it seems to always be "the flavor of the day"

 

[SammyChevelleTypeS3]

Yeah, I know. I try to block that thought out of my mind because we know it seems to always be "the flavor of the day"

I get it. I am presently going thru "daily news" withdrawal. I was raised watching the evening national news with one of my grandfathers who lived in walking distance from our place. So even as a young kid , every evening I slowly became hooked on it. Watching
too much of it for years I can attest to is not good for one at all. As of the last several years , it is making me sick. I had to 100% STOP.

 

[barbersurgeon]

Thunderbird lightning edition would have been cool.

 

[alarmguy]

I get it. I am presently going thru "daily news" withdrawal. I was raised watching the evening national news with one of my grandfathers who lived in walking distance from our place. So even as a young kid , every evening I slowly became hooked on it. Watching
too much of it for years I can attest to is not good for one at all. As of the last several years , it is making me sick. I had to 100% STOP.

OMG ... Yes I know, I too have cut out watching and reading too much news. It makes life seem miserable and yet we are living in the best of times.
You used to have a 30 minute night time news on TV and a daily newspaper. What happened yesterday was just about forgot the following day.

Now with the internet, news is 24 hours a day, every second of the day, tied to everyone on their cell phone, every miserable thing going on you click on and it never goes away, ends up in social media. I think sometimes it will be the downfall of a civilized world. Then again, I think too much.

 

[Fair enough]

There is “promote the general Welfare” in the Preamble. I think this is where the push to electrify cars comes from. To lessen use of oil which is finite in amount even if we think it is infinite. Don’t burn oil everywhere putting it into the air. That can’t be for good for the general welfare.
As I understand it, Ford stickers can say$30,000, but dealers can add what they want. I think there was a $20,000 Maverick sticker price at one point? Ford isn’t making that added money. Dealers pay less than sticker to Ford. Ford does most all of the work too.

 

[SC Maintenance]

There is “promote the general Welfare” in the Preamble. I think this is where the push to electrify cars comes from. To lessen use of oil which is finite in amount even if we think it is infinite. Don’t burn oil everywhere putting it into the air. That can’t be for good for the general welfare.
As I understand it, Ford stickers can say$30,000, but dealers can add what they want. I think there was a $20,000 Maverick sticker price at one point? Ford isn’t making that added money. Dealers pay less than sticker to Ford. Ford does most all of the work too.

There were no or very few $21k msrp mavericks made. And then the dealers did add to the higher price to begin with with but Ford didn’t make any to start with. It was all a ruse.

 

[Fair enough]

There were no or very few $21k msrp mavericks made. And then the dealers did add to the higher price to begin with with but Ford didn’t make any to start with. It was all a ruse.

I think I remember the very base was that price because I looked it up at the time. They are not going to lie about that, but it is in the technicalities. No options and maybe not including shipping. Dealers marked everything up, but Ford doesn’t get that markup. I’m probably done for life looking at cars but the markups were crazy at some dealers. The buyers lost a lot of money on add ons they won’t get back ever.