Big Brother in the car - "black boxes"

[rgl]

Big Brother in car

So how can we tell which vehicles have what "black boxes" in them, and more importantly, how do we go about wrecking these? I am not much for paying people to spy on me.

 

[Dan4510]

Cars since 1990 that have computer systems have had this potential. It just depends on what the manufacturer programs in the computer, some systems monitor and store data to use in deploying air bags.

My cars are dinosaurs, neither has a cat converter or a computer and both have carburators.

Big brother is watching you. The average person is videotaped about 7 times a day now by gov, private businesses, and people with cameras.

We are truly an orwellian society now.

Dan

 

[jthorner]

I might be in the minority here, but I like the black boxes. I'm tired of paying for the lies and mistakes of other people in the form of ever high insurance rates and being at risk on the road for the rotten driving so many people engage in.

If you don't have any lies to tell, you don't have anything to worry about from in vehicle data recorders.

John

 

[Dan4510]

quote:

---

Originally posted by jthorner:
I might be in the minority here, but I like the black boxes. I'm tired of paying for the lies and mistakes of other people in the form of ever high insurance rates and being at risk on the road for the rotten driving so many people engage in.

If you don't have any lies to tell, you don't have anything to worry about from in vehicle data recorders.

John

---

I would venture you have yet to be run through the meat grinder that is the legal system. Lawyers, etc. lie every day using facts.

Dan

 

[tweeker43]

i would imagine that the first time the black box on a consumer car is used for tickets or fines that the appeal of cheaper insurance rates will diminish.

some rental car companies are already doing this, and even though it's their car it still creeps me out.

these will be used for far more than crash data.

 

[Kestas]

Black boxes are on all new GM and Ford vehicles. D-C is not far behind. The Detroit Newspapers pointed out that the use of black boxes is another case where technology has gotten ahead of the legal system. We have yet to sort out how these black boxes fit in legally in our lives.

 

[tweeker43]

wired article 1

wired article 2

 

[cryptokid]

the anarchist inside me does not like black boxes at all.
on the other hand, as long as these things can never be used to track you, or develop any sort of profile on you and youre driving habits for any reason including tickets, i dont really see a problem with them.

 

[jason07-1zzfe]

They already can, cryptokid, with OnStar equipped vehicles.

 

[rgl]

So how does one wreck the recording area of the computer on non-OnStar cars? Anyone know if it is doable without having no computer in the car? I see no reason to cooperate with a plan to have your own property testify against you.

 

[MikeR]

quote:

---

Onstar ought to be pretty easy to disable--unplug the cellular antenna from the transciever module.

Onstar uses the AMPS (analog) cellular standard, so I'm quite surprised that nobody has "cracked" it yet.

---

When it is cracked (and it will be), I pity the poor fools who bought OnStar-equipped cars.

Carjacker: "Hello, Onstar? Show me all the Escalades within a 10-mile radius."

mr

 

[Dan4510]

the onstar equipped vehicles can also be reached out to and turned off if police request it.

Not my type of society, no commensurate level of checks and balances for the power to interfere like that.

Dan

 

[brianl703]

Onstar ought to be pretty easy to disable--unplug the cellular antenna from the transciever module.

Onstar uses the AMPS (analog) cellular standard, so I'm quite surprised that nobody has "cracked" it yet.

 

[brianl703]

quote:

---

Originally posted by rgl:
So how does one wreck the recording area of the computer on non-OnStar cars?

---

Applying 120V to the EEPROM chip ought to do it.

It'll either burn the chip completely up (I'm talking to the point of white ash) or make it blow it's top--depending on how much amperage is available.

120V from a 15-amp wall socket will burn the chip completely up (making it shoot flames with an odd 60Hz buzzing noise...).

If not applied directly to the chip, it'll just blow it's top as one of the circuit board traces will burn up before the chip goes into meltdown...

Yes, I've tested this. Both ways.

When I say "blow it's top", I mean "blow it's top". There will be a small crater in the chip where the die is exposed.

 

[Matt_S]

With on OnStar vehicle, you could just trace the wire from the antenna back to the OnStar module and disconnect the hardware (two or three wiring connectors, a GPS antenna and a cell antenna). I'm not sure how they do the black boxes, but unless it's actually integrated into the computer (which is a decent possibility, but I kinda' doubt it), I would expect you could do something similar.

 

[OdinsRageSS]

**** ZOG machine slapped an ol' blackbox in my SS

 

[mikep]

Wouldn't disconnecting the On-Star antenna only disable it's ability to transmit? It (or any "black box" type of gadget would still be capable of collecting and recording data for "Big Brother" to collect should they have the need (or desire). Of course, they'd need to gain access to the vehicle to do so.

I too have a problem with these black boxes and the temptation for abuse they pose. Whatever happened to the constitionally guaranteed right of being left the heck alone?

[ August 16, 2004, 10:13 AM: Message edited by: mikep ]

 

[Matt_S]

Just to clarify, OnStar is not a "black box" in the usual sense of the term, but it can be used to upload certain vehicle data from the PCM. The OnStar hardware doesn't collect any vehicle data itself. According to the privacy FAQ on their web site, this is only done at the customer's request, except when law enforcement is attempting to obtain vehicle data (usually location, I would guess) for a criminal matter. If you were to pull the wiring harness (not just the antenna) from the OnStar box, you would COMPLETELY disable it.

 

[OdinsRageSS]

Apparently the black box in my 2001 camaro SS will only be useful during a crash, it will remember the previous 5 or so seconds before the crash for test purposes i guess

 

[seotaji]

progressive insurance will give you a discount if you install their black box in your car.