Best budget fun car - Porsche vs. BMW vs. Pontiac?

Status
Not open for further replies.
Z

zanzabar

Joined
Jun 21, 2009
Messages
424
Location
NorCal
Ok, I want a car for #1: track days, #2: fun to work on and modify, #3: taking the family out for a spin on twisty Hwy1 roads on the California coast. It has to have back seats (for two small kids), preferably either a large sunroof or convertible roof of some kind, and be relatively amenable to installation of a rudimentary roll bar or full cage.

I'm leaning towards something like a fairly beat up early 1990s Porsche 944/924/928/968, a late 1990s BMW 330, or an early 2000s Pontiac GTO.

I want to spend around $3k, and like I said rough shape is ok. I'd want to do an engine rebuild and suspension overhaul anyway. I'd be driving the track days at Sonoma Raceway mostly.

Which car would be best? Have I missed anything obvious?
 
4th-Gen Camaro or Firebird. They have more room in the back than a Porsche 944 or BMW 330. Plus, they are a LOT faster. You can run with 911's in a Camaro or Firebird LS1/6-speed.

But GTO's are nice, and they have more room than F-bodies.
 
Last edited:
You have conflicting requirements.

Most tracks are going to have restrictions on a convertible. They may outright ban them, only allow them at specific events (e.g. Miata club track days, HPDE) or only allow ones with certain roll-over support.

If you install a cage, the car is pretty much unsafe for use without wearing a helmet. Putting children in the back seat of a car with a cage is certain to get police attention.

BMWs are not necessarily money pits for taking on casual track days. Some models don't require upgrades for casual track use, which can be a big money savings. I have a 325is that has been used for several HPDE days. It came with a low air dam, functional brake cooling ducts, oil cooler, large radiator, and fuel cooler(!). New mixed-use brake pads (Hawk HPS / EBC green stuff), brake fluid and UHP summer tires was all that was needed.

A Porsche has the advantage that most models are nearly track ready. But everything will cost more.

A $3K budget isn't realistic. My 325is above might have squeezed by, if I had done the bare minimum. But you'll really want new tires, proper brake pads and new rotors. A inexpensive car will always need new suspension bushings, and perhaps struts.
 
Rebuilding a Porsche or BMW engine will certainly cost more than a Pontiac. I would go with Camaro/ trans am or Mustang for V8 rwd.

But petsonaly I would like to build a Mid 80s Monte carlo highway bruiser.
 
Last edited:
The gto starts you with an engine that can do more, not sure about chassis or suspension.

I think your budget is way off other than wrecked vehicles.
 
You can get a GTO in any condition other than "wrecked" or "blown engine" for $3k?

I love those older Porsches, but I'd probably get the GTO for the role you're looking to fill. But I'd be surprised if you can find one for $3k.
 
Wouldn't a Mustang convertible satisfy your requirements and be a lot cheaper and easier to work on? Late 90's Mustangs with the modular are pretty easy to find around here in the 3 grand range, and parts will be easier to source than anything you've listed.
 
The 330i is not going to be a burnout machine like the GTO, but it will be a vastly more enjoyable driving experience. Well-balanced chassis, good steering feel, adequate power, predictable braking, etc. It's perfectly content to slum it around town and run errands, then be a lot of fun on the backroads.

Those motors are quite reliable since they're not direct-inject or forced-induction. BMW inline-6s also run very smooth and are fairly easy to work on (easy access). There is a big aftermarket for the E46 BMWs: brakes, suspension, etc. Just look at the Turner Motorsports catalog to see what I mean. I think you'll find that some better brake pads and tires will make that car an absolute dream and leave you very pleased.

I have driven and ridden in GTOs, and while I respect them for their raw performance and value, I just don't care for them. While old Porsches are tempting, they are a handful to work on and not exactly known for their reliability.

My advice is to go drive all of these cars a bunch of times and go with your gut. Since it's a fun car, practical considerations are relatively unimportant and it will be mostly subjective.
 
I agree with dparm: BMWs have an incredible supply of aftermarket parts and if you know where to go for them they are as cheap to run as anything else.
autohausaz comes to mind right off the bat....
 
I would skip the 4 seat convertible for a track toy, especially a car that wasn't designed as a drop top from the start. I don't think I've ever seen a functional roll bar for one either.
Having done a relatively slow half roll myself, I would need a proven roll bar in a Miata or S2000 at the minimum, and would run a hard top on the miata as well before I'd feel comfortable enough to have fun out there.
 
Originally Posted By: IndyIan
I would skip the 4 seat convertible for a track toy, especially a car that wasn't designed as a drop top from the start. I don't think I've ever seen a functional roll bar for one either.
Having done a relatively slow half roll myself, I would need a proven roll bar in a Miata or S2000 at the minimum, and would run a hard top on the miata as well before I'd feel comfortable enough to have fun out there.





M3 convertible, S2000, etc. might be the few exceptions to the rule, but I generally agree. The verts will be heavier, sloppier, and slower. Fine for driving around town, but not optimal for a track car.
 
The used 1998 M-roadster was overall the most fun sports car ive driven - better trans than the Honda S I drove - still could feel the strut front suspension limitations - though the chassis was VERY readable and predictable at 9/10ths street driving. Agreed that the VANOS reliability is a "?".
 
Any car over 12-14 years old headed to the track, you should budget:

Full Fluids: Trans, diff, Brake, coolant (might require distilled water on track), PS Flush.

Clutch. Rebuilt master and or slave cylinder maybe. if cable, then new cable.

New tires, and probably a extra set of wheels to put them on.

Brakes: flex lines, Pads, rotors, and probably rebuilding calipers. Vacuum booster/MC also suspect in older cars.

Every rubber bit in suspension and shift linkage.

Probably ball joints and tie rod ends.

Struts. (BMW probably can rebuild existing)

Cooling system. New cap(s), hoses/clamps, thermostat, maybe radiator(s) and water pump.

Spark plugs.

Exhaust?

Rack and pinion rebuild/replacement likely.

Timing chain guides? Timing Belt?

Additional Gauges?

Approved Helmet.

You might be required or wish to have: roll cage/bar, harness bar/harness, fixed seat, kill switch, fire suppression, fuel cell, window nets, flame suit/gloves/socks and driving shoes. Collar or Hans.

It's usually the nit-picky things that really add up. Thus listing out so much. Really everything that can wear out on a car will wear out with use and time. Even low mileage older cars need rubber lines, bushings and hoses replaced. I'd run a Compression test on any candidates, for sure.

Take a look at some of the chump/lemons builds out there for ideas on other cars.
 
Originally Posted By: ARCOgraphite
The used 1998 M-roadster was overall the most fun sports car ive driven - better trans than the Honda S I drove - still could feel the strut front suspension limitations - though the chassis was VERY readable and predictable at 9/10ths street driving. Agreed that the VANOS reliability is a "?".



Depends if it's high-pressure or low-pressure.
 
Oh, forgot U-joints, half shaft rubber bellows replacement, wheel bearings?

Engine and transmission mounts.
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: 05LGTLtd
Any car over 12-14 years old headed to the track, you should budget:

Full Fluids: Trans, diff, Brake, coolant (might require distilled water on track), PS Flush.

Clutch. Rebuilt master and or slave cylinder maybe. if cable, then new cable.

New tires, and probably a extra set of wheels to put them on.

Brakes: flex lines, Pads, rotors, and probably rebuilding calipers. Vacuum booster/MC also suspect in older cars.

Every rubber bit in suspension and shift linkage.

Probably ball joints and tie rod ends.

Struts. (BMW probably can rebuild existing)

Cooling system. New cap(s), hoses/clamps, thermostat, maybe radiator(s) and water pump.

Spark plugs.

Exhaust?

Rack and pinion rebuild/replacement likely.

Timing chain guides? Timing Belt?

Additional Gauges?

Approved Helmet.

You might be required or wish to have: roll cage/bar, harness bar/harness, fixed seat, kill switch, fire suppression, fuel cell, window nets, flame suit/gloves/socks and driving shoes. Collar or Hans.

It's usually the nit-picky things that really add up. Thus listing out so much. Really everything that can wear out on a car will wear out with use and time. Even low mileage older cars need rubber lines, bushings and hoses replaced. I'd run a Compression test on any candidates, for sure.

Take a look at some of the chump/lemons builds out there for ideas on other cars.




What the heck kind of cars are you racing? I have a 14 year old Trans Am that sees a lot of track time and except for a new Mcleod twin disk, fluid changes and a bunch of aftermarket go fast stuff the rest of the stuff you mention is bone stock excpet for the revlaved Bilstiens I have on it. Stock timing components, stock brake componets, new tires that work for the street and track. Original steering rack, ball joints, tie rod ends and I race with a ton of Corvette, F-body, and GTO guys. I can't think of one guy who has had to replace any of that stuff unless they wrecked or they wanted to.

If you need extra tires and all that stuff you car was meant to beat on.
 
I'd say the BMW, while you mentioned doing a rebuild of the engine, you may want throughout check condition of the block, prices for rebuild kit, and if there are similar vehicles in the local junk yards for quick cheap and less significant parts you might not want to buy at retail price.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top