Best Batteries?
- Thread starter JHXC
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JHZR2
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Valve-regulated lead acid batteries are my pick, Id go with the DEKA line of VRLA. Ive heard good about interstate, but we didnt have the best luck, honestly. Our best-life batteries are Panasonic, and whomever was the Plymouth Breeze fitter in 1997 (the car still has its original battery!).
Ive heard that Optima has gone down in quality, cant confirm. Ive heard good things about duralast gold, but we are 50/50.
Ive heard that Optima has gone down in quality, cant confirm. Ive heard good things about duralast gold, but we are 50/50.
In my experience, AGM batteries (ie Optima) can take abuse like nothing else, and keep on going. they also don't off gas, which means no terminal corrosion or body corrosion near the battery.
They're permanently sealed, so they don't spill if you tip them over, and they hold a charge for years when not connected to anything. I've installed them into regular cars, electric golf carts, and UPS systems, and they're all still working.
I would not use a gel battery for anything, they're easy to damage via improper charging / jump starting.
As far as the "best" is concerned, put in the highest RC / CCA battery you can fit. Generally speaking, the less taxing your load is on the battery, the longer it will last.
They're permanently sealed, so they don't spill if you tip them over, and they hold a charge for years when not connected to anything. I've installed them into regular cars, electric golf carts, and UPS systems, and they're all still working.
I would not use a gel battery for anything, they're easy to damage via improper charging / jump starting.
As far as the "best" is concerned, put in the highest RC / CCA battery you can fit. Generally speaking, the less taxing your load is on the battery, the longer it will last.
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Originally Posted By: u3b3rg33k
In my experience, AGM batteries (ie Optima) can take abuse like nothing else, and keep on going. they also don't off gas, which means no terminal corrosion or body corrosion near the battery.
They're permanently sealed, so they don't spill if you tip them over, and they hold a charge for years when not connected to anything. I've installed them into regular cars, electric golf carts, and UPS systems, and they're all still working.
See this is what I'm trying to get to the bottom of. I had always been under the impression optima was above all else but I have never used one. Before I drop $180 out on one I wanna' know what I'm getting for the $. My Suzuki's lights dim when I roll the window down and get brighter when I gas it. I want to be able to solve this problem through a quality battery, quality alternator and whatever else necessary. Am I on the right track with a battery or should I be headed for the alt first?
In my experience, AGM batteries (ie Optima) can take abuse like nothing else, and keep on going. they also don't off gas, which means no terminal corrosion or body corrosion near the battery.
They're permanently sealed, so they don't spill if you tip them over, and they hold a charge for years when not connected to anything. I've installed them into regular cars, electric golf carts, and UPS systems, and they're all still working.
See this is what I'm trying to get to the bottom of. I had always been under the impression optima was above all else but I have never used one. Before I drop $180 out on one I wanna' know what I'm getting for the $. My Suzuki's lights dim when I roll the window down and get brighter when I gas it. I want to be able to solve this problem through a quality battery, quality alternator and whatever else necessary. Am I on the right track with a battery or should I be headed for the alt first?
Originally Posted By: JHXC
My Suzuki's lights dim when I roll the window down and get brighter when I gas it. I want to be able to solve this problem through a quality battery, quality alternator and whatever else necessary. Am I on the right track with a battery or should I be headed for the alt first?
You are on the right track with the battery, but you should also inspect the battery cables and connectors.
My Suzuki's lights dim when I roll the window down and get brighter when I gas it. I want to be able to solve this problem through a quality battery, quality alternator and whatever else necessary. Am I on the right track with a battery or should I be headed for the alt first?
You are on the right track with the battery, but you should also inspect the battery cables and connectors.
The car's brand new. '08 34,000 miles I detail the engine every oil change. all excess grease/dirt etc wiped away. I love my ridiculous car. From talking to other SX4 owner's they all do it. OEM. So assuming the wires and connectors sparkle in the sunlight, what am I headed after next?
Well, for one, I'd check out your grounds, specifically the alternator to chassis connection, as well as making sure the positive connections are in good shape.
EDIT: just saw that it's new, so it's probably just got small wires to save money on copper. I think you'll find this is the case on most vehicles.
As far as rolling down the windows is concerned, if you car is getting older, your window track / motors / cables may be in serious need of lubrication. As they push the grease out of the way, and dirt gets in, the power draw of the motor increases drastically.
As for things getting brighter when you gas it, your alternator doesn't have anything close to it's rated output at idle. I'd say probably around 1/3 peak output at best.
So a 95A alternator probably puts out 30A tops at idle. you're running everything off that 30A, and as you ask for more, the voltage drops, and it pulls more from the battery.
I have experienced this in the worst possible way this winter. I had stopped to help someone who was stuck off the side of the road, and I left my 4 headlights on, my defroster on, and my fan at full tilt. figure 220w for headlights, 40 watts for marker / running lights, 200 watts for the fan, and who knows what for the defroster (at least 200w). that's 660 watts of accessory load (not including the energy required to run the ECU, injectors, spark and fuel pumps), and my 95A alternator outputs 1100w at speed, certainly NOT at its 650rpm idle.
My alternator is functioning properly, I was just taxing it beyond what it can keep up with, thereby pulling the voltage down until the system reached equilibrium, which also sucked all the reserve power out of the battery.
I pulled my battery down to the point where when I got back in and stalled it, I couldn't restart the car.
I have noticed that the voltage is significantly higher at about 800rpm or so under heavy load than it is at idle.
Have you ever noticed that plow packages often include dual 150A alternators? It's not so much the peak output of the system that matters, adding another alternator guarantees twice the output at idle.
EDIT: just saw that it's new, so it's probably just got small wires to save money on copper. I think you'll find this is the case on most vehicles.
As far as rolling down the windows is concerned, if you car is getting older, your window track / motors / cables may be in serious need of lubrication. As they push the grease out of the way, and dirt gets in, the power draw of the motor increases drastically.
As for things getting brighter when you gas it, your alternator doesn't have anything close to it's rated output at idle. I'd say probably around 1/3 peak output at best.
So a 95A alternator probably puts out 30A tops at idle. you're running everything off that 30A, and as you ask for more, the voltage drops, and it pulls more from the battery.
I have experienced this in the worst possible way this winter. I had stopped to help someone who was stuck off the side of the road, and I left my 4 headlights on, my defroster on, and my fan at full tilt. figure 220w for headlights, 40 watts for marker / running lights, 200 watts for the fan, and who knows what for the defroster (at least 200w). that's 660 watts of accessory load (not including the energy required to run the ECU, injectors, spark and fuel pumps), and my 95A alternator outputs 1100w at speed, certainly NOT at its 650rpm idle.
My alternator is functioning properly, I was just taxing it beyond what it can keep up with, thereby pulling the voltage down until the system reached equilibrium, which also sucked all the reserve power out of the battery.
I pulled my battery down to the point where when I got back in and stalled it, I couldn't restart the car.
I have noticed that the voltage is significantly higher at about 800rpm or so under heavy load than it is at idle.
Have you ever noticed that plow packages often include dual 150A alternators? It's not so much the peak output of the system that matters, adding another alternator guarantees twice the output at idle.
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No, I'm just pointing out that smaller wires have more resistance. It's probably just the alternator being way out of it's design range at idle. Putting on bigger wires probably won't make any difference.
Adding a few farads of capacitance WILL make a difference on intermittent loads.
for example: http://cgi.ebay.com/STINGER-SPC5050-CAP-...=item1c0ffd6b7f
a 50 farad capacitor will "soak up" all but the biggest drains. You could probably start your car off of it without a battery.
Auto mfgs have to compromise alternator life, mean output during driving, and max shaft speed so that redlining your car doesn't blow up the alternator.
The higher your redline, the slower the alternator will spin at idle. This is an advantage if you drive a diesel truck, as they have lower redlines, and you can get away with a higher alternator rpm at idle than you can on a car engine that spins twice as fast.
Adding a few farads of capacitance WILL make a difference on intermittent loads.
for example: http://cgi.ebay.com/STINGER-SPC5050-CAP-...=item1c0ffd6b7f
a 50 farad capacitor will "soak up" all but the biggest drains. You could probably start your car off of it without a battery.
Auto mfgs have to compromise alternator life, mean output during driving, and max shaft speed so that redlining your car doesn't blow up the alternator.
The higher your redline, the slower the alternator will spin at idle. This is an advantage if you drive a diesel truck, as they have lower redlines, and you can get away with a higher alternator rpm at idle than you can on a car engine that spins twice as fast.
You can go to your local farm / truck store and pick up a 0 gauge ground strap or two if you want. I did this on my 1968 bmw 2002, but for a brand new vehicle I would say don't waste your time.
A hotter voltage regulator won't help here. At idle, you're current limited, not voltage limited.
A hotter voltage regulator won't help here. At idle, you're current limited, not voltage limited.
I took some measurements from my 2006 Saab 93 with an amp clamp. At idle, it's 120 amp alternator can output 100 amps.
That sort of high output at idle is typical for newer cars, mainly because of the electric cooling fans which use quite a bit of power and typically come on at idle.
That sort of high output at idle is typical for newer cars, mainly because of the electric cooling fans which use quite a bit of power and typically come on at idle.
Inductive ammeters don't work on DC (they're air coil transformers). How did you go about measuring output, not to mention heavy load? I am curious.
As for output curves, I would point you here:
http://www.zena.net/htdocs/alternators/altspec2.shtml#Top
These folks make welding alternators (also sold as high output 12/24v alternators with the appropriate regulator) and even they don't have that kind of output curve. They're all rated 100% duty cycle.
Are you certain you measured what you think you measured?
As for output curves, I would point you here:
http://www.zena.net/htdocs/alternators/altspec2.shtml#Top
These folks make welding alternators (also sold as high output 12/24v alternators with the appropriate regulator) and even they don't have that kind of output curve. They're all rated 100% duty cycle.
Are you certain you measured what you think you measured?
Originally Posted By: u3b3rg33k
Inductive ammeters don't work on DC (they're air coil transformers). How did you go about measuring output, not to mention heavy load?
I have an inductive ammeter that does work on DC. They do exist, but aren't very common. I believe they use a hall-effect sensor. Mine is an AW Sperry DSA-760. I got it for a very good price.
I detailed my test method and results here:
https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/threads/using-a-clamp-on-dc-ammeter.94102/
Inductive ammeters don't work on DC (they're air coil transformers). How did you go about measuring output, not to mention heavy load?
I have an inductive ammeter that does work on DC. They do exist, but aren't very common. I believe they use a hall-effect sensor. Mine is an AW Sperry DSA-760. I got it for a very good price.
I detailed my test method and results here:
https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/threads/using-a-clamp-on-dc-ammeter.94102/
I would like to know where I can purchase a Panasonic car battery.
Originally Posted By: lexus114
I would like to know where I can purchase a Panasonic car battery.
I think the reason you don't see them is because shipping a battery alone from Japan to the USA is not considered practical.
I only see Panasonic batteries in new cars that were built in Japan.
I would like to know where I can purchase a Panasonic car battery.
I think the reason you don't see them is because shipping a battery alone from Japan to the USA is not considered practical.
I only see Panasonic batteries in new cars that were built in Japan.
In the USA or Japan? Car batteries, being heavy as they are, don't seem to be imported into the USA very much, except from Mexico or if they're already installed in a vehicle that was imported into the USA.
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