Doesn't anyone acknowledge how dangerous dull knives in a kitchen are?
I've never seen that particularly statistic, but if there is a 1% lifetime average of the cause of death being an auto accident, I'd accept that. Autos are a indispensable form of transportation, that can be mitigated (as I do) by eliminating most driving that is unnecessary, driving intelligently, using seatbelts, driving safe vehicles in a safe manner, etc. There's no other practical alternative for intermediate and long-range trips and at auto of some form is universally required.the odds of dying in a car accident are 1 in 107
Can you accept that risk?
I agree.This thread has gone from an innocent post to dumb and dumber.
Nope. I was early 20s, young, and uninformed. I didn't have anyone wise to help guide me in some important decisions. Got the bike for all the reasons most men get them. I was not an angry driver nor looking for a fight with anyone. I took professional training. But the highways were absolutely terrifying, got caught in really dangerous positions - once I was the oreo filling between a two semi-trucks with nary 2 car lengths between them. Petrifying. Nearly dumped once at high speed when going into a turn too fast, had several cars nearly hit me, etc. Got caught on the highway in a flash rainstorm with high winds. Nearly hit road debris that could have been a disaster. I've spoken to many riders and that's just a regular Tuesday on a bike. Survivability of any of that is very low if it goes sideways. In a car, eh, survival odds are much higher. Oh, and it's not nearly as glamourous having a woman on back of the bike as it appears. It's very stressful, b/c now this person's life is in your hands and a passenger changes the entire dynamic of the bike especially in turns. Thinking back on it it was just really foolish.I see idiots riding motorcycles and doing dangerous stuff all the time. Lots of them seem to ride angry and just look for a fight with a vehicle. Dumb as dumb can be.
From the sounds of it you were one of them.
I have, and now you're attacking my character suggesting I'm lying. What do I have to gain from lying?You've obviously never ridden motorcycles. There doesn't have to be a "tangible reason" except that people want to and have the freedom to choose to ride for whatever reason they decide. Why do people do other activities that can also be dangerous, like: skydive, rock/mountain climbing, hanglide/paraglide, etc ... because they want to, and find it an enjoyable activity. That's the reason most people do most things in life.
Hogwash. Style, looks, and social considerations are a large part of it. The bikes, the gear, the lifestyle, the community, I'd estimate >80%. There's at least biker club right in my town. Big groups of mostly men in outfits living a certain lifestyle. Most bikers buy certain outfits and bikes for the style and appearance. The "feel" of going really fast and having the autonomy a bike can provide, being about 15%. The other 5% is variable. That's my take.If someone believes the only reason we ride is because of how it looks or social considerations, that alone tells me that he's not understanding the reason why *most* of us choose to take the risk.
I also don't like most ROL or lawyers! But the interesting thing is that one develops (or tends to develop) a lot of critical thinking and knowledge. I think also my time in the military, learning how to develop risk assessment models, helped too. Most people in society just plainly lack critical thinking or risk assessment abilities.I feel similarly about the rule of law and lawyers...
Which is why I kept Mrs. Astro’s set sharp.Doesn't anyone acknowledge how dangerous dull knives in a kitchen are?
Wisdom! Don't use dull knives. They are more dangerous.Which is why I kept Mrs. Astro’s set sharp.
This is why the voting age should be raised to at least 21 years old maybe even 25. Because the only one guiding the vast majority of young voters are college professors as kids cannot think for themselves.Nope. I was early 20s, young, and uninformed. I didn't have anyone wise to help guide me in some important decisions.
Oh my gosh! I'm so lucky. I've done all of those things and I'm still alive.One thing we can agree on motorcycles are too dangerous for you. I can only guess you would never climb a mountain or go skydiving and most likely please try to keep yourself out of the hospital, because the biggest chance of dying from any cause it’s a medical error
What's that linked PDF have to do with anything about motorcycle death statistics? The word motorcycle isn't mentioned once in that PDF.I've never seen that particularly statistic, but if there is a 1% lifetime average of the cause of death being an auto accident, I'd accept that. Autos are a indispensable form of transportation, that can be mitigated (as I do) by eliminating most driving that is unnecessary, driving intelligently, using seatbelts, driving safe vehicles in a safe manner, etc. There's no other practical alternative for intermediate and long-range trips and at auto of some form is universally required.
Using these figures, which show a MC is 28x more likely, odds being 28x higher, it still boggles my mind that folks would accept that ultra high risk. Proportionally and extrapolated it would likely be its own category of the 4th or 5th leading cause of death. In my life I've personally met or known, or had in my circle of acquaintances, several who died or were crippled from MC accidents. The same is not true of cars.
Nope. I was early 20s, young, and uninformed. I didn't have anyone wise to help guide me in some important decisions. Got the bike for all the reasons most men get them. I was not an angry driver nor looking for a fight with anyone. I took professional training. But the highways were absolutely terrifying, got caught in really dangerous positions - once I was the oreo filling between a two semi-trucks with nary 2 car lengths between them. Petrifying. Nearly dumped once at high speed when going into a turn too fast, had several cars nearly hit me, etc. Got caught on the highway in a flash rainstorm with high winds. Nearly hit road debris that could have been a disaster. I've spoken to many riders and that's just a regular Tuesday on a bike. Survivability of any of that is very low if it goes sideways. In a car, eh, survival odds are much higher. Oh, and it's not nearly as glamourous having a woman on back of the bike as it appears. It's very stressful, b/c now this person's life is in your hands and a passenger changes the entire dynamic of the bike especially in turns. Thinking back on it it was just really foolish.
Not calling you a "liar" ... I just didn't see that in one of your posts and seemed you weren't coming across as a cycle rider. Your "preaching" on the subject matter becomes like Charlie Brown listening to his teacher after a few of you posts, so guess I missed that earlier. What you've since described above about your previous riding experience, it sounds like you were a typical young rider that never really mastered the skills to ride well. People are either born to ride, or they are not. Lot's of people start out riding and not finding it enjoyable, and stop riding ... and others like it and continue riding, learning and improving their skills and riding knowledge.I have, and now you're attacking my character suggesting I'm lying. What do I have to gain from lying?
That wasn't my point for mentioning other dangerous activities. My point was people do dangerous activities because they enjoy the activities, and want to for their own reasons. All your postings isn't going to change anybody's mind. If you think riding is not for you, then great ... but acting like some anit-motorcyclist evangelist isn't going to get you anywhere.There really should be a notable tangible reason, for doing such extremely dangerous behavior. Otherwise it seems a frivolous game of roulette with a loaded gun. MCs result in around 5,000 dead and 90,000 injured annually, a very high percentage of MC riders. None of those other activities you cited, or other sports, carry the high rate of injuries and fatalities. I've never once advocated against liberties or suggested any outlaws on bikes, so you're misconstruing or misrepresenting my position in addition to saying I'm lying. I have merely suggested people be smarter. We have a myriad of (sadly decreasing) liberties. There's lots of dangerous and stupid behaviors we can do. I chose not to do them. YMMV. .
Are you jealous of other people's lifestyles, or do they personally impact you in anyway? More Charlie Brown whaa, whaa, whaa it seems to me.Hogwash. Style, looks, and social considerations are a large part of it. The bikes, the gear, the lifestyle, the community, I'd estimate >80%. There's at least biker club right in my town. Big groups of mostly men in outfits living a certain lifestyle. Most bikers buy certain outfits and bikes for the style and appearance. The "feel" of going really fast and having the autonomy a bike can provide, being about 15%. The other 5% is variable. That's my take.
Nobody here that rides has claimed it's "safe" and without its risks. Nothing is totally "safe" in life except never getting out of bed, and if you stay there long enough you're health will deteriorate and you'll die sooner than later too, or a wind storm might blow a tree down that crashes through your bedroom and kills you, lol. As pointed out, there are lots of dangerous activities that people do, and in all of those activities the risks are reduced when people are skilled and knowledgeably about the risks and take actions to mitigate those risks as much as possible.This thread has exposed some of this. For instance, if I were pro-Motorcycle and wanted to try to defend that position, I would defend it better than as evidence herein. The pro-MC brigade here, in a odd attempt at defending MC riding as safe and fine, has presented the "what-about-isms" of notoriously unwise and unsafe behavior, that society universally says is unsafe and unwise. You cannot make this stuff up, it's hilarious.
Adults make up their own minds ... don't try to be a "parent" amongst adults. Preach to your own kids ... beyond that you're wasting your time as an anti-motorcylist evangelist.Major causes of death and injuries, along with other dangerous behaviors cited in this thread include: obesity, unsafe sex with strangers, drunk driving, medical errors, gun fights, strokes, dangerous illegal drugs, even using dull knives, etc. Citing these does not help the pro-MC argument. Because a parent would counsel a child to not do these things, or counsel them of the dangers of eating unhealthy foods, not exercising, getting in gun fights, doing heroin, etc. I agree, MCs are in this category of things to avoid being a participant. To that point, I agree, a wise parent would tell a child, motorcycles are a poor choice due to their extremely high risks.
That's your decision, and rightly so ... but don't try to "decide" what other people should do.In the end, MC riding is participating in a known highly dangerous activity that urges training and wearing of extra PPE (which many omit), an activity that carries a 28x higher risk of fatality (that doesn't include the 90,000 annual injuries), than other safer forms of transit like a passenger car. I don't see how a rational person - including myself- concludes this is a wise choice. I had a bike for a few years, and concluded it was suicidal and got rid of it. That was long before I learned these stats.
Agreed in sentiment, but we really should better educate our youth. Raising the age is a pointless gesture, b/c we're simply failing our youth with mindrot and inability to critically think. Many people never outgrow the mindrot and inability to critically think, planted in their youth.This is why the voting age should be raised to at least 21 years old maybe even 25. Because the only one guiding the vast majority of young voters are college professors as kids cannot think for themselves.
Pretty stupid if you think about it, you can’t drink or smoke in till you’re 21 but you could vote for the most important office in the world.
Then you would be wrong. Again. I'm a superb driver. In 350,000 miles not an accident since a minor one when I was 16. The dangers are all the other atrocious drivers who can end my life or make me a paraplegic b/c they have to send a text message that's more important. I've seen the results of death, destruction, accidents, etc. It ain't pretty. I'd prefer not to be picked up in a garbage bag on the highway.One thing we can agree on motorcycles are too dangerous for you. I can only guess you would never climb a mountain or go skydiving and most likely please try to keep yourself out of the hospital, because the biggest chance of dying from any cause it’s a medical error
You'll never understand that it's not your decision to make for other people if they want to ride motorcycles or do any other risky activity.In many pages, not one legit logical reason to ride a MC at the high risks of death. Not. One. Just name calling.
That’s is the problem though. They are being indoctrinated in college while their brains are still mush.Agreed in sentiment, but we really should better educate our youth. Raising the age is a pointless gesture, b/c we're simply failing our youth with mindrot and inability to critically think.
In many pages, not one legit logical reason to ride a MC at the high risks of death.
In many pages, not one legit logical reason to ride a MC at the high risks of death. Not. One. Just name calling.
I've heard all the MC advocacy for decades, and it amounts to nothing other than image and fun. It ain't worth the risks. With that, I'm out, and will leave you with to those who keep riding, please "Be careful."
First, you're not learning or practicing, it's a "live fire" event where your mistake or the mistake of someone else is a death sentence or a ticket to being in a wheel chair or eating thru a straw, plus millions of dollars of medical care. Further, you can "practice" just as well in a safer vehicle. Total logical fallacy here that I cannot follow.I believe that the skills learned/practiced when riding are carried over to when operating other vehicles;
A MILLION MILES. That's impressive. Care to break that down. That's 50 years of driving, 20,000 miles average per year. Or 25 years at 40,000 miles annually. That is one heck-of-a driving career, that is almost implausible save for a few professions. I'm genuinely curious of your profession to log such miles.No tickets or at fault accidents in nearly a million miles.........
It is nobody else's place to determine whether or not an adult should ride a motorcycle.
Again, I'll reiterate this is a complete misunderstand or mis-attribution of my position. Not once have I "dictated" behavior to anyone. If you want to engage in extraordinarily dangerous behavior, so be it. My audience is those who are able to critically think and do realistic cost/benefit analysis.It’s really silly for me to debate with someone who thinks no matter the subject, society should behave as they would like to dictate vs a free individual.
The reason doesn't need to be logical, or rational. We're human - we all think and act emotionally and irrationally at times.
To the contrary, one really SHOULD make logical decisions, particularly in light of weighing risk/reward when the activity in question is extraordinarily dangerous. When I was young and naive, I too thought risk/rewards were dumb. I learned to do them in the military to assess and mitigate risks, or avoid them entirely when they were unnecessary. Even doing R/R for the O-course, or simple missions, it is a helpful way to logically approach the world. I think the world would be much better if folks applied logic and reason, versus the emotional decision making.There doesn't need to be a logical reason to ride a motorcycle.
Straw man argument, nobody has suggested this.However I refuse to ball up in the fetal position and fret and wait on the grim reaper!
The OP posted on a public forum. I'm sorry you cannot process how that works, but it's sorta like announcing to the world a topic of discussion and then getting feedback that might disagree. If you cannot resolve that, then don't read adverse opinions.Mind your own bloody business,