Battery service w/an eye.

[Audi Junkie]

I have a 2.5 year old Honda battery with the "eye" (Panasonic?). It's just a single color if normal or black if it's "not fully charged". Mine is black. Honda tells me I have a 3yr warranty, unltd miles. I dunno if that is prorated nor do I know if my batt will pass a load test. It may pass the test, but cranks slow.

I'm not really a scammer, but 2.5 yr is poor service from a battery and I want to get a new one. I could discharge mine a few times to kill it and then go in to Honda. I could not do anything and have it load tested somewhere else to see where I am at with it. (I have my eye on an upsized W*M Maxx) or I could try to add some water to it and carry on. One other issue, I still have a fail-to-crank on the first key turn every 50-100 starts. That's kind of annoying and maybe a new batt will help.

So, does more water raise the electrolytes up to relight the eye??? What to do? If I add water it may help, but kill my chance at a replacement, then I still am left with weak battery.

 

[crinkles]

funny, down here the 3 yr batteries are sealed, with the system you mention.

2 yr warranty in the same line is fully serviceable, old school.

I know which one i am getting !

(BTW even the "sealed" one you can pull the lable off and get to the fill ports fo rmaintenance).

granted, if it's not holding charge, it's not holding charge...

 

[nthach]

The eyes lie on those as it's a simple hydrometer in ONE cell. Hydrometers work on specific gravity changes in the electrolyte. Go to Honda and get the free battery - it's a JCI battery distributed off the Interstate truck.

 

[bepperb]

These size 51 Honda batteries are garbage and seem to fail left and right after only 1~3 years.

You might consider buying the battery tray and cover for a v6 and upgrade to the size 35. Otherwise any other size 51 will be better than what you have. IIRC the Honda is 400 CCA whereas anything JCI makes will be 450~500.

 

[brianl703]

Originally Posted By: Audi Junkie

So, does more water raise the electrolytes up to relight the eye???


It might..but only of the electrolyte level is just low. If the battery is sulphated (which is one way that they fail), adding more water probably won't turn the eye back to green (or whatever color it is when it's fully charged).

 

[mechtech2]

Japanese wiring and cables are OK, but the absolute minimum needed.
Any corrosion or extra resistance will show up as a problem somewhere. So clean your cable ends [all] nice and shiny, and where they seat. Good grounds make many problems disappear.

The Battery? Sorry. 2.5 years is way too short . Most batteries that go out this fast are loose and have been vibrating.

bepperb has a PITA solution, but it may be best.

 

[eljefino]

I bet they'll warranty the battery as it sits.

 

[mrfd222]

Most of the time the eye dont work after 1 year.

 

[Jim 5]

My wife has been stranded twice in her Odyssey. It's a JCI battery.

One time she left 1 single map light on for 6 hours. Her last car (an Acura 3.2TL with the Panasonic battery) didn't fail to start EVER in 7 years of ownership on the original battery.

I may just replace it at my own expense with a good quality battery to avoid the inconvenience of a questionable battery. After all, the dealership will just swap in a newer inferior quality battery.

 

[RiverWolf]

If the eye cell is low on fluid, it's likely all cells are.

First though, are you sure it's fully charged? If routinely subjected to short trips, a battery will not last long due to an ever declining charge. I think the RoT used to be 20 minutes at road speed to recover from starting, but it may have changed over time. The eye can indicate low fluid or low charge status.

My anecdotes:
Wife's CR-V stock battery lasted about 3.5 years...mostly short trips around town, probably under 20 minutes with commensurate time spent at idle for lights/traffic/signs. Driven on vacation road trips when possible. My 4Runner stock battery lasted 6.5 years with the first 6 months sitting on a dealer lot...daily commute is 20ish minutes, mostly at 55-75mph. I realized at the 5.5 point I could add fluid to the "maintenance free" battery when I noticed the eye said discharged...added nearly 1/2 gallon. Probably would have lasted even longer had I serviced sooner...only died after sitting idle for 7 days.

 

[brianl703]

Originally Posted By: Jim 5

One time she left 1 single map light on for 6 hours.


I once left the map light on my Mustang for about 12 hours, no problem starting even though it's a V8. Group 58 JCI battery.

 

[Jim 5]

Originally Posted By: brianl703
Originally Posted By: Jim 5

One time she left 1 single map light on for 6 hours.


I once left the map light on my Mustang for about 12 hours, no problem starting even though it's a V8. Group 58 JCI battery.



Exactly, that's my experience as well. You should be able to do this overnight and still start an EFI engine with no trouble.

Another time at -30C the battery went dead with no accessories left on. She parked in our driveway at 5:00pm and by 7:00am the next morning the car wouldn't start.

Dealer says charging system and battery are fine.

Right.

 

[RTexasF]

Three years is about max on the Honda 4 cylinder batteries, mine almost made it that long. On the Honda forums I frequent three years is the average. Switching to the V-6 battery tray and battery (higher cold cranking amps) is a very good suggestion from bepperb and a common cure.

 

[Jonny Z]

I do not know why Honda specs a stronger battery for their V6s.

Assuming somewhat close compression ratios (like their 9.6 - 10.5 I think?), it takes more torque to crank a 2.4L four, than a 3.0L six, due to lack of overlap, and individual cyclinder displacement.

 

[chrome]

Originally Posted By: Jonny Z
I do not know why Honda specs a stronger battery for their V6s.

Assuming somewhat close compression ratios (like their 9.6 - 10.5 I think?), it takes more torque to crank a 2.4L four, than a 3.0L six, due to lack of overlap, and individual cyclinder displacement.


Every 2 revolution of the crank will complete the 4-stroke cycle in both engines, regardless of number of cylinders. In the 4 cyl engine, 2.4L of air will need to be compressed. In the V6 engine, 3.0L of air, which means more work is done which means a stronger starter and a larger battery is required.

 

[Jonny Z]

Originally Posted By: chrome
Originally Posted By: Jonny Z
I do not know why Honda specs a stronger battery for their V6s.

Assuming somewhat close compression ratios (like their 9.6 - 10.5 I think?), it takes more torque to crank a 2.4L four, than a 3.0L six, due to lack of overlap, and individual cyclinder displacement.


Every 2 revolution of the crank will complete the 4-stroke cycle in both engines, regardless of number of cylinders. In the 4 cyl engine, 2.4L of air will need to be compressed. In the V6 engine, 3.0L of air, which means more work is done which means a stronger starter and a larger battery is required.


Try this
http://www.bgsoflex.com/cca.html

 

[brianl703]

Originally Posted By: Jim 5


Dealer says charging system and battery are fine.

Right.


They're just doing a quick load test which tells if the battery is putting out the rated CCA, they aren't actually testing the battery's capacity in amp-hours. It's possible for a battery to pass a CCA test yet have lost over half of it's capacity in amp-hours.

About the only way I know of test the amp-hour capacity of a battery is to connect it to a load and time how long it takes to discharge. That's a time-consuming test--the last one I did took about 8 hours.

 

[chrome]

Originally Posted By: Jonny Z
Originally Posted By: chrome
Originally Posted By: Jonny Z
I do not know why Honda specs a stronger battery for their V6s.

Assuming somewhat close compression ratios (like their 9.6 - 10.5 I think?), it takes more torque to crank a 2.4L four, than a 3.0L six, due to lack of overlap, and individual cyclinder displacement.


Every 2 revolution of the crank will complete the 4-stroke cycle in both engines, regardless of number of cylinders. In the 4 cyl engine, 2.4L of air will need to be compressed. In the V6 engine, 3.0L of air, which means more work is done which means a stronger starter and a larger battery is required.


Try this
http://www.bgsoflex.com/cca.html


Tried it, it doesn't show the assumptions and formulas used in the CCA calculations. Notice if you kept the CID constant, and vary cylinders from 1 to 4, it gives the same CCA. From 10 to 16 cylinderss, it doesn't vary again. Why is that? Based on the theory of "individual cylinder" displacement, a 1 cylinder engine should take double the CCA as a 2 cylinder engine of a given swept capacity?

 

[Jonny Z]

I do not think the tool is valid for any but 4/6/8/10.

A 4 does take twice the CCA than an 8 with the same displacement with the tool.

 

[nthach]

Next time, see if they'll test the battery with the ED-18 OR the GR8 testers with you watching in the service drive.