I'm searching for a used, cheap rider/tractor. Which engines are prone to the most issues? I grew up on a farm -- driving riders in the 70s/80s. They were built like tanks. All we ever did was sharpen blades, change oil, deck belt, battery. Now, I see tons of 5 yr old mowers on CL, and they have issues already. Should I stay clear of new ones, and look for oldies (70s-90s)? I'm really not going to be using it as a mower. It's more of a toy -- which I intend to pull a dethatcher, aerator, trailer with. But, I don't want a toy that I will be sinking money into every time I need to use it. The newer tractors look nice, but appear to be built cheap. Any particular brands/motors to stay clear of? How about RERs? I'm assuming an 8-10 HP RER could pull a small dethatcher/aerator? It would be easier to store an RER, but they appear to be problematic as well? Thanks.
B&S, Kohler, Tecumseh, what gives?
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I would get a Toro Wheel Horse 300 series:
Made in USA, completely servicable and built to last forever, more than enough power to do anything you want it to. Cast iron Kohler Magnum engines or optional Onan engines on the really top of the line ones. 8-speed gear shift manual transmissions with low range or hydrostatic automatic. Although they might not be very cheap, they're totally worth it.
Made in USA, completely servicable and built to last forever, more than enough power to do anything you want it to. Cast iron Kohler Magnum engines or optional Onan engines on the really top of the line ones. 8-speed gear shift manual transmissions with low range or hydrostatic automatic. Although they might not be very cheap, they're totally worth it.
My grandpa just got rid of 2 1970 Snapper riding mowers with about 15,000 hours on each. Both had the original B&S engines that ran great, the only issue was that one had a stuck shifter that just needed some oil. He traded it for a 2011 Snapper Zero Turn. Look into them, but only with B&S engines.
The John Deere 200 series from the 70's & 80's are fairly plentiful in my area and are advertised from $400-$1500. My 1976 was purchased new by me on December 24th, 1976 as a Christmas present to myself. It's been through a couple of hour meters, but I think the total is around 600. No repairs, just regular maintenance. It has the single cylinder Kohler. These are tough little tractors and have a lot more meat in the frame and running gear than the newer ones. Here's a photo(not mine, but same year):
Having just been tractor shopping, I can tell you that if you're looking for anything built like it was in the 70s, you're going to be sorely disappointed. Everything other than commercial-grade equipment is "value engineered" to meet the price expectations of typical homeowners. That means compromises of all kinds from front to back. Thin metal in the frame (my new Husqvarna actually TWISTS on irregular surfaces, you can feel it in the seat and steering wheel), cheesy weak transaxles, and marginal engines that LOOK good but in which you'll find such wonderful design "improvements" such as plastic camshafts.
So depending on what you want to do with it, be VERY circumspect about the drive components. Buy something with an upper-end engine (like a Vanguard, if you can find one) and with a strong, ground-engaging qualified transaxle, preferably one that's shaft driven. Make sure that the transaxle is serviceable! I'm not kidding. The lower-end big-box retailer, light duty hydrostatic transaxles come equipped with ... wait for it.... "lifetime fluid". Yeah, right. You know what's in there? 10w30 dino motor oil. (No, I'm not making this up) And, to top it off, since there's no charge pump in these cheapies, there's no serviceable oil filter, and NO WAY (short of removing the transaxle from the vehicle) to change the oil. Now isn't that just dandy?
If you're set on a hydro drive, look for something with a Hydro-Gear G730 (belt drive) or a TuffTorq K92 (shaft drive, with peripherals). Ain't cheap, but it's a much better class of equipment than the sub $3K junk you find in showrooms everywhere.
And don't buy anything made by MTD.
So depending on what you want to do with it, be VERY circumspect about the drive components. Buy something with an upper-end engine (like a Vanguard, if you can find one) and with a strong, ground-engaging qualified transaxle, preferably one that's shaft driven. Make sure that the transaxle is serviceable! I'm not kidding. The lower-end big-box retailer, light duty hydrostatic transaxles come equipped with ... wait for it.... "lifetime fluid". Yeah, right. You know what's in there? 10w30 dino motor oil. (No, I'm not making this up) And, to top it off, since there's no charge pump in these cheapies, there's no serviceable oil filter, and NO WAY (short of removing the transaxle from the vehicle) to change the oil. Now isn't that just dandy?
If you're set on a hydro drive, look for something with a Hydro-Gear G730 (belt drive) or a TuffTorq K92 (shaft drive, with peripherals). Ain't cheap, but it's a much better class of equipment than the sub $3K junk you find in showrooms everywhere.
And don't buy anything made by MTD.
If you can find an old Gravely, lots of attachments available, and built like a tank.
I just finished fixing up one for my neighbor, similar to this photo. Craigslist for less than 100 bucks. Needed greasing, carb cleaned, new spark, and some TLC. Runs great. Not a finish mower, but can handle some serious brush.
Dave
I just finished fixing up one for my neighbor, similar to this photo. Craigslist for less than 100 bucks. Needed greasing, carb cleaned, new spark, and some TLC. Runs great. Not a finish mower, but can handle some serious brush.
Dave
Personally,if it is for regular home use,I prefer a belt drive mower with gears.I am not fond of the hydro units.The belt-gear drives are usually easier to work on and you dont have as many parts to break down.
I also prefer B&S engines.They usually last and last if they are taken care of.Regular oil changes,even sooner than the manual says along with keeping grease in anything that needs it.
Most mowers are made cheaper but can be used for many years if they are taken care of.
It really comes down to whether you want to spend thousands of dollars for a most likely larger mower or around 1,000 for an everday mower that should last several years,maybe longer if taken care of.
If you do a search,it seems that all mowers have problems,even the ones that are very expensive.This is where you have to look at repair costs.Is it better to buy a cheaper mower that costs less to repair or is it better to buy a more expensive mower that will cost a lot more to fix.
It is like this,a cheap mower may have a few problems that are quite cheap to repair but may happen more often.
The more expensive mower may be a little more reliable but when it does need repair,it may be several times more expensive to fix than the cheaper mower.
If you buy an older mower,be careful.When it comes to some of the older mowers,you may not be able to find parts and if you can find them,they may be quite expensive.If you cant find a part,you have a mower that you cant use.
These are things that you need to consider.
I also prefer B&S engines.They usually last and last if they are taken care of.Regular oil changes,even sooner than the manual says along with keeping grease in anything that needs it.
Most mowers are made cheaper but can be used for many years if they are taken care of.
It really comes down to whether you want to spend thousands of dollars for a most likely larger mower or around 1,000 for an everday mower that should last several years,maybe longer if taken care of.
If you do a search,it seems that all mowers have problems,even the ones that are very expensive.This is where you have to look at repair costs.Is it better to buy a cheaper mower that costs less to repair or is it better to buy a more expensive mower that will cost a lot more to fix.
It is like this,a cheap mower may have a few problems that are quite cheap to repair but may happen more often.
The more expensive mower may be a little more reliable but when it does need repair,it may be several times more expensive to fix than the cheaper mower.
If you buy an older mower,be careful.When it comes to some of the older mowers,you may not be able to find parts and if you can find them,they may be quite expensive.If you cant find a part,you have a mower that you cant use.
These are things that you need to consider.
Originally Posted By: exranger06
I would get a Toro Wheel Horse 300 series:
Made in USA, completely servicable and built to last forever, more than enough power to do anything you want it to. Cast iron Kohler Magnum engines or optional Onan engines on the really top of the line ones. 8-speed gear shift manual transmissions with low range or hydrostatic automatic. Although they might not be very cheap, they're totally worth it.
Plus 1 on that one ^^^ B.E.A.U.T.I.F.U.L ^^^
I would get a Toro Wheel Horse 300 series:
Made in USA, completely servicable and built to last forever, more than enough power to do anything you want it to. Cast iron Kohler Magnum engines or optional Onan engines on the really top of the line ones. 8-speed gear shift manual transmissions with low range or hydrostatic automatic. Although they might not be very cheap, they're totally worth it.
Plus 1 on that one ^^^ B.E.A.U.T.I.F.U.L ^^^
A lot of nice suggestions. My use will be very limited. Thus, I'm looking in the $300 range. There's an older Ford I like for $500, but since I really don't "need" a tractor, I don't want to spend much. The older Deeres seem to run good, and are plentiful. However, having gown up on an "IH-only farm", I don't know if I could force myself to buy a JD (I also collected Case/IH tractors for some time). Right now, this is my favorite:
http://kansascity.craigslist.org/grd/2456396131.html
I really like the looks of this style -- even though it's not "true IH/CC". This one is nice and small -- to fit through my gate. It looks pretty mint for the age (late 80s --> early 90s). I've seen a few older Murrays/Huskees for $200-300. My parent's last tractor was a Murray, and it served them real well.
Here's the Ford:
http://kansascity.craigslist.org/grd/2487429405.html
http://kansascity.craigslist.org/grd/2456396131.html
I really like the looks of this style -- even though it's not "true IH/CC". This one is nice and small -- to fit through my gate. It looks pretty mint for the age (late 80s --> early 90s). I've seen a few older Murrays/Huskees for $200-300. My parent's last tractor was a Murray, and it served them real well.
Here's the Ford:
http://kansascity.craigslist.org/grd/2487429405.html
I have a 90's model Murray mower.It mows really well and is a good mower.The bad part is finding parts.While some can be bought new,they can be quite expensive,even for small things like air filters.
You really can get into problems when it comes to finding parts for the deck and chassis of the mower.Since Murray went out of business and some of it was bought by Briggs & Stratton,you may not be able to find some parts unless they are used.
Some of the older mowers were built better and hold up well,getting parts is where you can find problems.You need to think about this before you get an older mower.The company may still be around but they might not make parts for the older mowers.
You really can get into problems when it comes to finding parts for the deck and chassis of the mower.Since Murray went out of business and some of it was bought by Briggs & Stratton,you may not be able to find some parts unless they are used.
Some of the older mowers were built better and hold up well,getting parts is where you can find problems.You need to think about this before you get an older mower.The company may still be around but they might not make parts for the older mowers.
Id stay away from any Tecumseh engines. They have gone the way of the dodo bird and parts are trickey to get. I think the Briggs and Kohler engines are just better anyways. I have tons of trouble with my Tecumseh powered MTD mower and Snowbird snowblower. Always fixing something.
I am partial to the John Deere garden tractors from the 70's-80's.
I have a 110 and 2 112's, they are indestructible. Frames are made with thicker steel than a pickup truck frame, and cast iron Kohler engines. The 200 series (made from mid 70's to late 80's)
was built similar. The 300 series JD hydros were also a tough unit.
Older Wheel Horse and Simplicity were also well built.
Stay away from MTD made stuff and most Craftsman tractors were junk except for some early models.
I have a 110 and 2 112's, they are indestructible. Frames are made with thicker steel than a pickup truck frame, and cast iron Kohler engines. The 200 series (made from mid 70's to late 80's)
was built similar. The 300 series JD hydros were also a tough unit.
Older Wheel Horse and Simplicity were also well built.
Stay away from MTD made stuff and most Craftsman tractors were junk except for some early models.
Since your space and budget are limited, an old Snapper would work great.
60s-80s Cub Cadets, Wheel Horses, John Deeres, Fords, Simplicities, etc. are great, but parts can be hit or miss. Toro/Wheel Horses will probably have the best parts availability. The classic Wheel Horse was made up until 2008 or 2009, but you will pay a fortune for a newer one. They are in high demand due to limited quantities and tank-like construction on a newer mower. The good thing about the older mowers is many of the parts can be serviced or rebuilt, rather than having to be completely replaced. People restore old Cubs and Wheel Horses all the time.
Pretty much any consumer grade mower from the 1990s on is a throw away. They last a few seasons (maybe), then everything starts failing. They have more electrical components than the older ones, more stamped steel, and generally cheaper and flimsier construction. Many have stamped axles instead of cast iron axles which leads to all kinds of front end problems with rough use. Spindles are easily damaged by blade impacts, and a stamped deck can be ruined by a hard hit. If you just need a cheap mower to cut the grass, an MTD will work, but if you want a toy/project/hobby/something nice, I'd look for some old iron that's in good shape.
Whatever you do, stay away from Husqvarna and the former AYP brands. They are a bad deal at any price.
60s-80s Cub Cadets, Wheel Horses, John Deeres, Fords, Simplicities, etc. are great, but parts can be hit or miss. Toro/Wheel Horses will probably have the best parts availability. The classic Wheel Horse was made up until 2008 or 2009, but you will pay a fortune for a newer one. They are in high demand due to limited quantities and tank-like construction on a newer mower. The good thing about the older mowers is many of the parts can be serviced or rebuilt, rather than having to be completely replaced. People restore old Cubs and Wheel Horses all the time.
Pretty much any consumer grade mower from the 1990s on is a throw away. They last a few seasons (maybe), then everything starts failing. They have more electrical components than the older ones, more stamped steel, and generally cheaper and flimsier construction. Many have stamped axles instead of cast iron axles which leads to all kinds of front end problems with rough use. Spindles are easily damaged by blade impacts, and a stamped deck can be ruined by a hard hit. If you just need a cheap mower to cut the grass, an MTD will work, but if you want a toy/project/hobby/something nice, I'd look for some old iron that's in good shape.
Whatever you do, stay away from Husqvarna and the former AYP brands. They are a bad deal at any price.
Thanks all. I just missed a good one this weekend. A local had a liquid-cooled Honda in great condition for $250. I was the second caller, but someone was already on their way
. That would have been a real nice tractor for the money. I'll keep watching. I have my eye on a Lawn Boy (Toro twin) also.
. That would have been a real nice tractor for the money. I'll keep watching. I have my eye on a Lawn Boy (Toro twin) also.- Status
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