Good grief. Hopefully it'll behave itself and not start acting up again in a couple weeks.
Automotive Battery Charger Recommendation
- Thread starter Egg_Head
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Yeah.
I guess the weird thing is that my car refuses to charge the battery to a proper level, even after extended driving. Not sure if this is normal or if something is not right. I asked AZ to test my alternator, but they said they can't really do it unless it's removed from the car.
I guess the weird thing is that my car refuses to charge the battery to a proper level, even after extended driving. Not sure if this is normal or if something is not right. I asked AZ to test my alternator, but they said they can't really do it unless it's removed from the car.
I think that may well be horse number2 that they can't test it... Maybe not test it in all areas but they could at least tell if it was pushing enough amps... Again maybe I'm wrong in that.. Has far as the alternator not charging a battery to one hundred percent... That is quite quite common. Even my car doesn't do that after like 3 hrs plus of driving. It holds my battery to around 80-85% state of charge. Which tells me that the on board computer is attempting to save a fraction of gas... Bet your is doing the same thing.
No car is going to hold high enough voltage for long enough to truly top charge a depleted battery. Especially an oilder partially sulfated battery.
If one uses a hydrometer to verify full charge, one will find that while a specific gravity reading of 1.275 might correspond to full charge, that their bells whistles and massive green light smart charger is quitting and throwing that green light when specific gravity is still 1.250 or perhaps even less.
All batteries will accept less and less amperage at any given voltage as they begin to approach full chare, but older sulfated batteries require more voltage for longer to get that specific gravity as high as possible and hopefully back to the maximum possible for that given battery.
but that maximum needed to be recorded when the battery was new and fully charged, and the electrolyte level noted, if one really wants to be OCD about it.
AGM batteries cannot have their electrolyte measured by a hydrometer, so one MUST rely on the amperage the battery is accepting to determine full charge.
When a 100 AH AGM battery can accept only 5 amps at absorption voltage (14.4 to 14.8v) ONLY then can it be said to be fully charged. Full charge CANNOT be determined on an AGM battery if it is NOT held at absorption voltage when that ammeter is observed.
Since NO smart charger asks for the size of the battery being charged in amp hours, they are simply guessing as to when the battery is fully charged, and unless one can bring said battery back upto absorption voltage and see that mperage is indeed only 0.5% of the battery's capacity rating, they cannot know whether that AGM battery is fully charged or not. Period. Green lights which indicate full charge are liars, mocking the human who believe them.
now can a newer battery reach full charge at lesser voltaegs if held at those voltages longer? yes, but it might take 36 hours at 13.6v what might take 4 hours at 14.4v.
When the battery is older 13.6v does not stand a chance of fully charging it, and sice it des not get fully charged, it loses capacity even faster and soon will jump off the cliff.
Regardin amperage on Flooded batteries held at absorption voltage, full charge can of course be determined by a hydrometer on NON maintenance free flooded batteries, but Amperage is also a very useful tool. but flooded batteries will usually never drop anywhere near as low as an AGM. Where an AGM is said to be full when the amps it accepts when held at absorption voltage delcine to 0.5% of its capacity rating, the flooded battery can range from 0.75 to 3%, depending on the battery, and its temperature, health, age make and some other variabls which would just confuse the matter.
The enhanced flooded batteries for stop start with carbon in the plate paste are relatively new. the carbon is said to make the batteries more resistant to partial state of charge cycling, which occurs with stop start and any intentionally cycled battery. It takes a long time to actually fully charge a battery. 80% to 100% is 3.5 hours minimum and that is at absorption voltage. The closer to full the battery is the slower it recharges.
When one is really trying to get an older battery truly fully charged, and is either dipping a hydrometer, or checking amperage with the battery held at absorption voltage, on will find that their smart charging source is making it impossible to actually finish the task.
Some chargers will allow one to restart charging if they drop the voltage by loding the battery, removing the surface charge and restarting the chrger, many times. But many times the charger will stop after a few minutes and flash that green lying green light and drop to float voltage. The Marine guys call this premature efloatulation and it is the main murderer of deep cycle batteries.
Starting batteries are however a different animal, but the stop start and using the alternator as a semi regenerative braking device requires thae battery be at low enough of a state of charge that it can accept higher amperage when the voltage regulator asks for high 14's, means the battery is being cycled, and traditional starter batteries do not do well in cyclic duty when they are dropped below the 80% range.
Even if the battery is destined to be allowed to be discharged to the sub 80% range by th emodern stop start vehicle trying to eekout the maximum MPG rating which boosts the manufacturer's bottom line, the battery will still very uch appreciate being brough to a true full chare, and doing this requires that one can bring the voltage upto the mid 14 range( possibly even higher) for as long as reqired, and no smart chrger actually allows this, as if an extended overcharg is performed on a battery that does not need it, it can offfgass enough oxygen and hydrogen that any nearby spark will have greedy lawyers rubbing their hands together.
Performing the tru full recharge on a sulfated battery in an attempt to restore lost capacity and peformance, is basically impossible without being able to bring the battery to and hold the battery at a high enough voltage for long enough for either amps to taper to a very low level or the hydrometer revealing he electrolyte's specific gravity rises to the maximum possible level for that battery, or just stops rising, accounting for temperature, on that battery.
If ielectrolyte does not rise any aafter hours at 14.7v and amps too do not taper anymore, then the electrical pressure needs to go higher. Most AGMS say NOT to equalize a battery at these EQ voltages of 15.5 to 16.2v, but honestly if the battery is monitored for temperature closely and not allowed to go above 110F. it can be done. it is relatively hard to get an AGM to offgass and o into thermal runaway. To intentionally cause it would require a high amp charger which blasts a still depleted battery well past 14.7v at a high amperage. If the charging source is limited to 14.7v offgassing is highly unlikely.
If one is trying to restore sulfated batteries with charging sources capable of achieving 16.2 volts, the battery should first be charged for several hours at a maximum of 14.7v, then the 16.2v can be approached with about 5 amps required per 100Ah of capacity to get the battery to 16.2v.
I've not cycled batteries that employ carbon in the positive plate paste. The carbon additive to the plate is relatively new in the world of consumer grade lead acid batteries and they can have slightly different rechrging characteristics than regular flooded or AGM or GEL batteries.
No doubt the ERB batteries mentioned in this or another recent thread athat are marketed for stop/start are trying to address the partial state of charge cycling which has been the bane of deep cycle lead acid batteries for a long time now. While i have not cycled one myself, they will still require a true full charge every so often to achieve excellent longevity, adn that full charge is ll about getting the battery to absorption voltage, and holding that voltage for as long as is required for specific gravity to max out, or for amps to taper to a predetermined level for that specific size battery, when it is held at that absorption voltage.
The whhizz bang magically marketed smart chargers are not capable of truly fully charging an unhealthy battery. Can they do a good enough recharge? sure, but the same battery held at a high enough voltage for long enough to actually reach full charge will last much longer. But it is not plug and play. t is a process requiring intervention when enough time at enough leectrical pressure has been achieved. As this time will always be slightly different, and will change even on the same exact battery as it ages, one can easily see how a one size fits all algorithm and magical marketing is a bit of an insulting joke.
If one uses a hydrometer to verify full charge, one will find that while a specific gravity reading of 1.275 might correspond to full charge, that their bells whistles and massive green light smart charger is quitting and throwing that green light when specific gravity is still 1.250 or perhaps even less.
All batteries will accept less and less amperage at any given voltage as they begin to approach full chare, but older sulfated batteries require more voltage for longer to get that specific gravity as high as possible and hopefully back to the maximum possible for that given battery.
but that maximum needed to be recorded when the battery was new and fully charged, and the electrolyte level noted, if one really wants to be OCD about it.
AGM batteries cannot have their electrolyte measured by a hydrometer, so one MUST rely on the amperage the battery is accepting to determine full charge.
When a 100 AH AGM battery can accept only 5 amps at absorption voltage (14.4 to 14.8v) ONLY then can it be said to be fully charged. Full charge CANNOT be determined on an AGM battery if it is NOT held at absorption voltage when that ammeter is observed.
Since NO smart charger asks for the size of the battery being charged in amp hours, they are simply guessing as to when the battery is fully charged, and unless one can bring said battery back upto absorption voltage and see that mperage is indeed only 0.5% of the battery's capacity rating, they cannot know whether that AGM battery is fully charged or not. Period. Green lights which indicate full charge are liars, mocking the human who believe them.
now can a newer battery reach full charge at lesser voltaegs if held at those voltages longer? yes, but it might take 36 hours at 13.6v what might take 4 hours at 14.4v.
When the battery is older 13.6v does not stand a chance of fully charging it, and sice it des not get fully charged, it loses capacity even faster and soon will jump off the cliff.
Regardin amperage on Flooded batteries held at absorption voltage, full charge can of course be determined by a hydrometer on NON maintenance free flooded batteries, but Amperage is also a very useful tool. but flooded batteries will usually never drop anywhere near as low as an AGM. Where an AGM is said to be full when the amps it accepts when held at absorption voltage delcine to 0.5% of its capacity rating, the flooded battery can range from 0.75 to 3%, depending on the battery, and its temperature, health, age make and some other variabls which would just confuse the matter.
The enhanced flooded batteries for stop start with carbon in the plate paste are relatively new. the carbon is said to make the batteries more resistant to partial state of charge cycling, which occurs with stop start and any intentionally cycled battery. It takes a long time to actually fully charge a battery. 80% to 100% is 3.5 hours minimum and that is at absorption voltage. The closer to full the battery is the slower it recharges.
When one is really trying to get an older battery truly fully charged, and is either dipping a hydrometer, or checking amperage with the battery held at absorption voltage, on will find that their smart charging source is making it impossible to actually finish the task.
Some chargers will allow one to restart charging if they drop the voltage by loding the battery, removing the surface charge and restarting the chrger, many times. But many times the charger will stop after a few minutes and flash that green lying green light and drop to float voltage. The Marine guys call this premature efloatulation and it is the main murderer of deep cycle batteries.
Starting batteries are however a different animal, but the stop start and using the alternator as a semi regenerative braking device requires thae battery be at low enough of a state of charge that it can accept higher amperage when the voltage regulator asks for high 14's, means the battery is being cycled, and traditional starter batteries do not do well in cyclic duty when they are dropped below the 80% range.
Even if the battery is destined to be allowed to be discharged to the sub 80% range by th emodern stop start vehicle trying to eekout the maximum MPG rating which boosts the manufacturer's bottom line, the battery will still very uch appreciate being brough to a true full chare, and doing this requires that one can bring the voltage upto the mid 14 range( possibly even higher) for as long as reqired, and no smart chrger actually allows this, as if an extended overcharg is performed on a battery that does not need it, it can offfgass enough oxygen and hydrogen that any nearby spark will have greedy lawyers rubbing their hands together.
Performing the tru full recharge on a sulfated battery in an attempt to restore lost capacity and peformance, is basically impossible without being able to bring the battery to and hold the battery at a high enough voltage for long enough for either amps to taper to a very low level or the hydrometer revealing he electrolyte's specific gravity rises to the maximum possible level for that battery, or just stops rising, accounting for temperature, on that battery.
If ielectrolyte does not rise any aafter hours at 14.7v and amps too do not taper anymore, then the electrical pressure needs to go higher. Most AGMS say NOT to equalize a battery at these EQ voltages of 15.5 to 16.2v, but honestly if the battery is monitored for temperature closely and not allowed to go above 110F. it can be done. it is relatively hard to get an AGM to offgass and o into thermal runaway. To intentionally cause it would require a high amp charger which blasts a still depleted battery well past 14.7v at a high amperage. If the charging source is limited to 14.7v offgassing is highly unlikely.
If one is trying to restore sulfated batteries with charging sources capable of achieving 16.2 volts, the battery should first be charged for several hours at a maximum of 14.7v, then the 16.2v can be approached with about 5 amps required per 100Ah of capacity to get the battery to 16.2v.
I've not cycled batteries that employ carbon in the positive plate paste. The carbon additive to the plate is relatively new in the world of consumer grade lead acid batteries and they can have slightly different rechrging characteristics than regular flooded or AGM or GEL batteries.
No doubt the ERB batteries mentioned in this or another recent thread athat are marketed for stop/start are trying to address the partial state of charge cycling which has been the bane of deep cycle lead acid batteries for a long time now. While i have not cycled one myself, they will still require a true full charge every so often to achieve excellent longevity, adn that full charge is ll about getting the battery to absorption voltage, and holding that voltage for as long as is required for specific gravity to max out, or for amps to taper to a predetermined level for that specific size battery, when it is held at that absorption voltage.
The whhizz bang magically marketed smart chargers are not capable of truly fully charging an unhealthy battery. Can they do a good enough recharge? sure, but the same battery held at a high enough voltage for long enough to actually reach full charge will last much longer. But it is not plug and play. t is a process requiring intervention when enough time at enough leectrical pressure has been achieved. As this time will always be slightly different, and will change even on the same exact battery as it ages, one can easily see how a one size fits all algorithm and magical marketing is a bit of an insulting joke.
Originally Posted by Quattro Pete
Originally Posted by wrcsixeight
What voltage is your charger seeking?
14.8V
Quote
How many amps is it accepting at that voltage?
1.5A
Doing some more reading into the owner's manual of my ProLogix 2320, the strange behavior I observed last week may have been the charger's attempt to remove sulfation (recondition mode). This time around, it's behaving normally, or more like it used to.
That's exactly what mine does when its trying to save a marginal battery. My wife deep discharged her battery last year running with a bum alternator and didn't say anything about the light being on until it wouldn't start. I changed the alternator brushes and regulator while the battery was charging.
I kept doing its thing for 14 hrs but then went green, its been fine ever since and now readily accepts a full charge. Another battery didn't come back, I guess it cant resurrect the dead.
Originally Posted by wrcsixeight
What voltage is your charger seeking?
14.8V
Quote
How many amps is it accepting at that voltage?
1.5A
Doing some more reading into the owner's manual of my ProLogix 2320, the strange behavior I observed last week may have been the charger's attempt to remove sulfation (recondition mode). This time around, it's behaving normally, or more like it used to.
That's exactly what mine does when its trying to save a marginal battery. My wife deep discharged her battery last year running with a bum alternator and didn't say anything about the light being on until it wouldn't start. I changed the alternator brushes and regulator while the battery was charging.
I kept doing its thing for 14 hrs but then went green, its been fine ever since and now readily accepts a full charge. Another battery didn't come back, I guess it cant resurrect the dead.
I have 2 hot rods, two ATV's, and two personal watercraft. Each vehicle has a charger on it. I have five Battery Tender's (10amp, 3amp, and 3 Juniors) and one C-Tek trickle charger. I think the C-Tek is higher quality, but I have never had any of the Battery Tender's fail--one is from 1995 and another dates to 1998. The only charger that has ever failed for me was a Schumacher.
I have 2 battery chargers , both Sears from the 1980's . One I gave Dad , long ago , with a max 50 amp boost . But it had a problem , last time I tried to use it . Took it apart and 2 wires may have been touching . I insulated them . If I have further problems , I will probably order a bridge rectifier .
The other charger is either 100 or 200 amp boost max . After repairing a loose connection on one of the clamps , it works fine .
I realize both probably went out of production long ago . If , that is , Sears is still open .
The other charger is either 100 or 200 amp boost max . After repairing a loose connection on one of the clamps , it works fine .
I realize both probably went out of production long ago . If , that is , Sears is still open .
Update on my Schumacher SE-82-6: I replaced the circuit breaker for $16 + shipping and she works good as new. Next is I'll spray paint the black top red for a Georgia Bulldog look.
OK , my smaller Sears charger is 10 amp / 50 amp boost with auto charge setting also .
Hooked it up to the Caprice battery , set it on low and measured the voltage 7 - 8 volts . To low .
Boost , 15 - 16 volts , to high to leave it on very long .
Automatic , 13 - 14 volts . so , I left ir on the rest of that afternoon , all nite and morning of the next day .
At that point , the battery was charged to 13 point something volts ! Praise the Lord . Spun the engine over very well !
so , I guess my wiring repair on the charger worked & got the battery charged & the Caprice started .
Congrats on your successful repair , also !
Hooked it up to the Caprice battery , set it on low and measured the voltage 7 - 8 volts . To low .
Boost , 15 - 16 volts , to high to leave it on very long .
Automatic , 13 - 14 volts . so , I left ir on the rest of that afternoon , all nite and morning of the next day .
At that point , the battery was charged to 13 point something volts ! Praise the Lord . Spun the engine over very well !
so , I guess my wiring repair on the charger worked & got the battery charged & the Caprice started .
Congrats on your successful repair , also !
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