I've read the many rave reviews in reference to A-RX but all seem related to older dirty engines or conditioning for switchover to synth oil. Is there a preventative maintenance schedule for new cars to keep them clean? In my case it has had synthetic oil since 1000 miles (2500 now on odo) which should do a fine cleaning job. With that in mind, are there intervals, say every 10K/20K that are recommended to keep things clean and stop the grunge before it starts?
Auto RX and new cars?
- Thread starter RTexasF
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RTexasF,
I used the Auto-Rx in my 2000 Mazda with 6K miles on the vehicle. Now I add 2-3 ounces at each oil change. So I don't expect to do a full clean again until I reach 25K, and the use a maint dose of 2-3 oz again.
On my 2001 Ford PSD, I used the Auto-Rx at 1500 miles on the truck and changed the oil at 2K. Then I used a maintenance dose and ran the oil for 3K and had it analyzed. Wear ect. was extremely low. I'll do the 25K plus maint. doses.
I use it in my 95 Ford also, 2 lawn mowers, John Deere, and Dixon ZTR.
I just changed the transmission fluid on my 95 Ford. I had the Auto-Rx in for 500 miles. I have an in-line Amsoil Full Flow on the return line of this vehicle. The factory trans filter was clean, the FF had some debris in it, brownish soft residue, and the drain plug has a very small amount of metal. On the trans, I only use 6 oz.
So to answer your question more direct, I believe that use on a new vehicle can be beneficial to remove break-in contaminants, and then every 25K from then on with a Maint. dose at every oil change. I have the oil analysis on 1 vehicle, before and after, and the after on my new one. So my feel good is not totally anecdotal.
I used the Auto-Rx in my 2000 Mazda with 6K miles on the vehicle. Now I add 2-3 ounces at each oil change. So I don't expect to do a full clean again until I reach 25K, and the use a maint dose of 2-3 oz again.
On my 2001 Ford PSD, I used the Auto-Rx at 1500 miles on the truck and changed the oil at 2K. Then I used a maintenance dose and ran the oil for 3K and had it analyzed. Wear ect. was extremely low. I'll do the 25K plus maint. doses.
I use it in my 95 Ford also, 2 lawn mowers, John Deere, and Dixon ZTR.
I just changed the transmission fluid on my 95 Ford. I had the Auto-Rx in for 500 miles. I have an in-line Amsoil Full Flow on the return line of this vehicle. The factory trans filter was clean, the FF had some debris in it, brownish soft residue, and the drain plug has a very small amount of metal. On the trans, I only use 6 oz.
So to answer your question more direct, I believe that use on a new vehicle can be beneficial to remove break-in contaminants, and then every 25K from then on with a Maint. dose at every oil change. I have the oil analysis on 1 vehicle, before and after, and the after on my new one. So my feel good is not totally anecdotal.
Vetteman,
Would you please direct me to these before and after oil analysis on the auto rx on your new vehicles if you have them posted.
I myself do not believe that it is nescassary to run any cleaner in an engine as a maint if you are running a good oil such as m1, schaeffers, amsoil. Fact is, when I tried the auto rx on my isuzu p/u, I saw no evidence of any trash in my filter nor did it appear to be any different on my 120,000 mile motor, but I had been running the schaeffers oil for well over 20,000 miles prior to using the auto rx, thereby leaving me to believe that in my case there wasn't anything in there to clean so how is it helping where a good effective oil is working? If memory serves, I believe Spector too using amsoil saw no evidence either, again, I believe due to the fact he had nothing in the engine to clean.
I have seen many engines that have the clean down to the metal surface look on them with just running a good brand of oil and not over extending the drains. One comes to mind, 36,000 miles on a ford, had timing cover leak, dealer took pan, timing cover and valve cover off under warr and called the guy and wanted to know what he had been running for oil as he has never seen a 36k motor look like it just came off the assembly line. This guy has been usng the 700 15w40 blend since the 2nd oil change.
So if you don't mind, I'd really like to look at these numbers you have so it can enlighten me as well. thanks,
bob
Would you please direct me to these before and after oil analysis on the auto rx on your new vehicles if you have them posted.
I myself do not believe that it is nescassary to run any cleaner in an engine as a maint if you are running a good oil such as m1, schaeffers, amsoil. Fact is, when I tried the auto rx on my isuzu p/u, I saw no evidence of any trash in my filter nor did it appear to be any different on my 120,000 mile motor, but I had been running the schaeffers oil for well over 20,000 miles prior to using the auto rx, thereby leaving me to believe that in my case there wasn't anything in there to clean so how is it helping where a good effective oil is working? If memory serves, I believe Spector too using amsoil saw no evidence either, again, I believe due to the fact he had nothing in the engine to clean.
I have seen many engines that have the clean down to the metal surface look on them with just running a good brand of oil and not over extending the drains. One comes to mind, 36,000 miles on a ford, had timing cover leak, dealer took pan, timing cover and valve cover off under warr and called the guy and wanted to know what he had been running for oil as he has never seen a 36k motor look like it just came off the assembly line. This guy has been usng the 700 15w40 blend since the 2nd oil change.
So if you don't mind, I'd really like to look at these numbers you have so it can enlighten me as well. thanks,
bob
Patman
Staff member
I agree with Bob on this one. I've seen many pictures, and heard many friends of mine talk about their higher mileage engines that have run on nothing but Mobil 1 and they come out looking as clean as new.
Don't get me wrong, I've seen firsthand that Auto-rx can clean the engine, but I just don't think the stuff is needed unless an engine is neglected or run on crappy oil.
Don't get me wrong, I've seen firsthand that Auto-rx can clean the engine, but I just don't think the stuff is needed unless an engine is neglected or run on crappy oil.
For the record I'm using Red Line 10W30. The next change will also be RL 10W30 simply because I have it on the shelf in the garage. After that it will likely be M1 SS 10W30 due to cost, availability, and positive feedback from here. The car calls for 5w30 but I just can't see it living in central Texas.
I'm still open for more thoughts on the RX question.......
I'm still open for more thoughts on the RX question.......
Bob,
Go to the oil analysis section and you will find an analysis on a 95 PSD with Amsoil and 8K miles on the oil. Then go to an earlier time and you will find an oil analysis on a 95 Ford PSD using Delo 400 with 4K miles after the Auto-Rx clean. both are under 59 Vetteman.
I stated that I had an oil analysis before and after on 1 vehicle and an after only on my new one. The after only is not posted on the new vehicle.
Go to the oil analysis section and you will find an analysis on a 95 PSD with Amsoil and 8K miles on the oil. Then go to an earlier time and you will find an oil analysis on a 95 Ford PSD using Delo 400 with 4K miles after the Auto-Rx clean. both are under 59 Vetteman.
I stated that I had an oil analysis before and after on 1 vehicle and an after only on my new one. The after only is not posted on the new vehicle.
This board seems to lean to the theory that oil cleans. It doesn't every engine has friction points where third party abrasives lodge. These friction spots caused the engines to run hot. Synthetic oil coats the engine rotating parts
reducing heat, it does not remove third party abrasives, just lubricates around them. Keeping your engine clean makes good sense for most and
a major benefit for you Bob is your oil is going to perform better. We are not using solvents that will eventually create seal problems. We just cleaned a 2003 Lincoln with 670 miles the filter was full of metal shavings. As far as what you saw in your test i think perhaps you should redo it I am told Amsoil Dealers precleaning with Auto-Rx have more referal sales than there or someone elses engine flush.
reducing heat, it does not remove third party abrasives, just lubricates around them. Keeping your engine clean makes good sense for most and
a major benefit for you Bob is your oil is going to perform better. We are not using solvents that will eventually create seal problems. We just cleaned a 2003 Lincoln with 670 miles the filter was full of metal shavings. As far as what you saw in your test i think perhaps you should redo it I am told Amsoil Dealers precleaning with Auto-Rx have more referal sales than there or someone elses engine flush.
Frank,
Are there any specific intervals that you would recommend on a new car for the use of RX? Selfishly, I'm asking about mine as posted above, but any information from the source would be appreciated. It could be used by all now and in the future.
Are there any specific intervals that you would recommend on a new car for the use of RX? Selfishly, I'm asking about mine as posted above, but any information from the source would be appreciated. It could be used by all now and in the future.
Bob,
I posted the after oil analysis results of cleaning with Auto-Rx on my 2001 PSD in the Oil Analysis section.
I posted the after oil analysis results of cleaning with Auto-Rx on my 2001 PSD in the Oil Analysis section.
I'm sorry but I don't follow how answering questions on a pm is considered class unless there is something detrimental being said about someone/something else that a person doesn't want a defense put up in response. That would mean it is a one sided conversation between a sales person and you and not always is that an objective opinion for what it's worth. No, I'm not suggesting frank is doing that but you can see where the imagination would go to with such a remark about class and personal pm's.quote:
Originally posted by RTexasF:
Bob,
Frank did not feel that it was appropriate to answer my (previous) question on your site so he sent me a PM. I think that shows some real class.
Sorry frank but you appear to hang on this solvent issue which I find a little disturbing still. I don't use solvents in my engine and never knowly have as you well know I only use the neutra 131 and this solvent issue has been hammered to death as we both know the 131 neutra is no more of a sovent than auto rx which both have no negative effects on seals.
As for synth oils coats moving part to reduce the friction off parts? Did I miss something here? ALL OILS including MINERAL coat moving parts, not just synth's. Fact is, the base esters used by the auto rx is an oil which coats parts and partakes in doing the same thing. Of course the amount of this is minimal which has no real effect on the engine oils charateristics.
I tried your product.. It had no effects on my engine and to use it again will not change this end result. Does that make it bad? No, just proves that only an engine that DOES have problems with contaminents could benifet from this product. Since mine had been running Schaeffers oil, it didn't enhance any properties of my oil analysis from the trend I had already established nor did it produce any more evidence of dirt,grime or sludge in my filters both the one at 200 miles and the one at 500.
The point is, it's not going to get trash out of engine unless trash exists and a new engine doesn't have trash in it and a good oil such as M1 SS or Schaeffers or Amsoil will keep this from happening as long as one doesnt' extend past the life expentancy of these good oils. The oils job is to lubricate but a well balance additive package in a good oil will enhance the natural oils ability to clean, suspend and carry away debri left. As for cleaning shavings, Hopefully you don't have such in an engine.
There obviously is a lot of vague information on how your product works as it is so secret but I do have some conclusions which I guess I'll take the time to share and give you a chance to elaborate on so others can see there isn't much to this stuff and how it basicly works. Quite frankly, I'm really impressed on the concept.
As for the oil not cleaning comment. I disagree with that. Oil normal as a whole doesn't clean but carries away what the detergents / esters clean. From my little test of where I just put some old used valve stem seals in pure oil with no other additives and let them sit at room temp and no agitation, it was quite apparent that synth oils seem to have an excellent detergency and did an outstanding job of cleaning. It,like auto rx as explain by you previously, uses esters as part of the cleaning process. This is why so many synth oils causes leaks as they too clean the debri but leave a harnden seal that no longer works thus the leak appears. This is more common with older vehicles than newer ones also most likely due to different seal material? not sure about that last part. The other point is that auto rx does not fair that well in the same test, WHY?, because it requires heat and agitation, then it would work and even better than oil by itself.
The above mention test proves another point about bench tests.... As hammered on by many amsoil reps on here, Tech Data #'s produced on a bench test can't show the real true picture as my little bench test to show the cleaning ability of oils vers 131 neutra and auto rx. Auto rx does clean. It's technology is interesting to say the least but it will not clean at room temp nor just sitting there stagnet. It requires the oil to be warm, it also needs the oil to flow and get into fricitonal areas to work. So to test this product in stardard conventional means like you would any other oil will not show you a positive result, as do many bench tests on technical data sheets. Remember, only one aspect is usually being tested when bench tests are being run and it usually will not demonstrate the same results found in an engine.
Bob let me say Auto-Rx is not an oil. Where would you come up with that? Every engine including yours has friction points where third party abrasives lodge. Every day major oil companys are testing Auto-Rx (as Terry Dyson knows ) one corporation spent in excess of $100,000 in tests
(Rich, Terry,myself have the tests they are covered under a secrecy agreement with the corporation)so we can't post them. Bob you know Most Oil Companys buy there additive packages and blend them. Auto-Rx is being tested not for cleaning but for replacing two additives soon to be banned in oil. Is Auto-Rx going to prevail as part of an oil additive package I don't think so. It was designed as a stand alone product.My point is I don't see other products being tested by this corporation. Auto-Rx cleans in and around the friction points in areas oil fails to clean or lubricate.Mobil,Texaco,Shell have all got cleansing results over and beyond what "ANY" of there oils produced by themselves, however thats not what there looking for and most don't want a stand alone product.
One last thing "Mineral Oil drips off of oil lubricated parts when engine or machinery is shut down, "Synthetic Oil" with polar properties have a greater attraction to metal surfaces than mineral oil, Bob thats what I mean by "coating" when i refer to synthetic oil. Auto-Rx is non hazardous non reportable metal cleaner good for engines and transmissions.
(Rich, Terry,myself have the tests they are covered under a secrecy agreement with the corporation)so we can't post them. Bob you know Most Oil Companys buy there additive packages and blend them. Auto-Rx is being tested not for cleaning but for replacing two additives soon to be banned in oil. Is Auto-Rx going to prevail as part of an oil additive package I don't think so. It was designed as a stand alone product.My point is I don't see other products being tested by this corporation. Auto-Rx cleans in and around the friction points in areas oil fails to clean or lubricate.Mobil,Texaco,Shell have all got cleansing results over and beyond what "ANY" of there oils produced by themselves, however thats not what there looking for and most don't want a stand alone product.
One last thing "Mineral Oil drips off of oil lubricated parts when engine or machinery is shut down, "Synthetic Oil" with polar properties have a greater attraction to metal surfaces than mineral oil, Bob thats what I mean by "coating" when i refer to synthetic oil. Auto-Rx is non hazardous non reportable metal cleaner good for engines and transmissions.
I think Auto-Rx has a benefit for new engines in helping to more thoroughly clean the break-in components and casting material out.
Having run one car with Mobil-1 for almost 80k miles, and noticing a slight, but noticeable difference in throttle response and mileage, I believe that Auto-Rx has a benefit there too.
I can't speak for other oils, but for Mobil-1, even though it has a high detergency, there are some places where a build-up must have existed. My theory is that it was in the ring lands, and/or maybe in the lifters. Under the valve covers, the engine did look like new before, and cleaner than when I switched to Mobil 1 at 80k miles, but it seems that deeper inside the engine, there must have been something.
It seems to me, that with a maintenance dose being applied after an initial cleaning, that routine cleanings would not be needed.
Just my opinion...
Having run one car with Mobil-1 for almost 80k miles, and noticing a slight, but noticeable difference in throttle response and mileage, I believe that Auto-Rx has a benefit there too.
I can't speak for other oils, but for Mobil-1, even though it has a high detergency, there are some places where a build-up must have existed. My theory is that it was in the ring lands, and/or maybe in the lifters. Under the valve covers, the engine did look like new before, and cleaner than when I switched to Mobil 1 at 80k miles, but it seems that deeper inside the engine, there must have been something.
It seems to me, that with a maintenance dose being applied after an initial cleaning, that routine cleanings would not be needed.
Just my opinion...
One last thing "Mineral Oil drips off of oil lubricated parts when engine or machinery is shut down, "Synthetic Oil" with polar properties have a greater attraction to metal surfaces than mineral oil, Bob thats what I mean by "coating" when i refer to synthetic oil. Auto-Rx is non hazardous non reportable metal cleaner good for engines and transmissions.
Dont agree, the ionic attraction from the carbon/hydrogen chains that both are made of are going to have simular results for attraction to metal surfaces. From all the tests I have done with test tubes and such, has shown to me that each oil after shaken up will both drain back down in around the same reasonable time. Now the auto rx does coat and tends to hang on longer than an oil will do, thus it provides some lubrication. As for it replacing other things? I don't doubt you, and hopefully it works out. I think the cleaning technology used by this stuff is excellent as it uses those micels(my cells) as a way to scrub the engine internally unlike the force of agitation is the only way an oil can clean.
Dont agree, the ionic attraction from the carbon/hydrogen chains that both are made of are going to have simular results for attraction to metal surfaces. From all the tests I have done with test tubes and such, has shown to me that each oil after shaken up will both drain back down in around the same reasonable time. Now the auto rx does coat and tends to hang on longer than an oil will do, thus it provides some lubrication. As for it replacing other things? I don't doubt you, and hopefully it works out. I think the cleaning technology used by this stuff is excellent as it uses those micels(my cells) as a way to scrub the engine internally unlike the force of agitation is the only way an oil can clean.
I believe that Auto-Rx or another high quality crankcase cleaner is beneficial to a new motor. Before the rings seat in a new motor, compression is somewhat lower than optimimum. Therefor with poor ring seals excessive blow by occurs. Incomplete combustion by products in the crankcase is a major cause of engine contamination, namely nitration. Also in a new motor it is beneficial to drain the maximum possible in the first and second drains. You want to be sure to get out all filings and so forth. For these reasons alone I feel that an engine cleaner is worthy in a new motor.
Bob,
The 'imagining' of detrimental things being said in a pm is going to raise your blood pressure. Don't worry 'bout it. You and the moderators don't have screen every single line of text to keep the spririt of the site alive. It's the American way. No one I know has anything 'detrimental' to say about you. We all love you, man.
Cheers
JJ, you're right. It's not really so much the idea of worrying about negatives being stated about products/people it's just I like to see people do any discussions about products on here so we all can learn from this. By using the Pm's, this cannot be accomplished. It also serves as a way to keep people in check as most "salesmen" won't dare try BS'n anyone on here and maybe mis leading someone just to sell the product(not saying frank is like that).
I myself don't like getting emails asking specific questions about this or that as I feel I have to repeat myself and many times my answers can be used by many and that's why I like to see the public forum used for questions and answers about specific products and applications.
I myself don't like getting emails asking specific questions about this or that as I feel I have to repeat myself and many times my answers can be used by many and that's why I like to see the public forum used for questions and answers about specific products and applications.
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