Audio updates on old headunits

[JHZR2]

Hi,

I have two old MB cars, an 81 and an 82, both are all original. One has an original digital becker headunit, the other an analog one.

Both will have ipon aux inputs in them in the near future (one already does). Not sure if it works on RF or somehow isolates the radio and inputs directly into the amplifier, similar to how the cassette tape functionality in the units works.

Anyway, I will NOT replace these head units with new-tech. Period. Here is an example of just how ugly-gawdy an aftermarket headunit can look in an older euro car - yuck!

So Im stuck in the pickle of being "stuck" with the output of a refurbished 30yo head unit.

So how do I upgrade my sound system? Just send that to an amp to better speakers? Add some kind of intermediate box that "cleans" the signal?

I will say that I am happy with the sound in these two cars as is, with paper speakers and old silver plated spade connectors. Im concerned more with sound quality than SPL, and while I want to hear good, clean mid-range musical bass, I dont care to have every bass drum beat punching me in the back. I dont play loud, there is a good amount of road noise compared to a modern car, etc.

I amplified the front 5 1/4 component speakers in my BMW, and with a good amp setup, I see the benefits of moving to a bit newer speaker setup. There are some issues with that system that I think can be overcome by doing it complete and right (e.g. the rear speakers are not amplified, and I think that in some situations things get a bit boomy, yet not clear). I dont mind spending money, though one of the two cars is more a garage queen than a driver, so while I want to play radio/music when cruising, I dont want to spend a ton. If I spent $500/car, I think that would be on the high end and my wife wouldnt like it...

Can anyone help me to get off on the right foot so that when I go talk to the local stereo guy, I have some semblance of knowing what I am talking about?

Thanks!

 

[Papa Bear]

Often, at local car shows, I see where the guys have to OEM radio in the dash and a "modern" receiver under the dash or in the glove box.

 

[97tbird]

Alpine units sound great, but heck they're ugly! That whole slanted cluster of shiny buttons just RUIN it.

When I selected a head unit for my wife's Elantra, which has a very matte/understated and serious looking console, I had to look forever - finally found a simple looking Pioneer, which looked like it was made for her car, and even had the backlighting that matched the car's illumination.

 

[Quest]

I'm with you on the fact that most modern/most recently made head units are, IMHO, astatically awful.

difficult to navigate(while driving), difficult to read/view, everything sort of the worse of nightmares.

Dunno who designed these/what market is it made for these days...

Wish they still have some decent/ or half-decent euro-style DIN setup ala late 80s or early 90s, such as Alpine or Nakamichi, or even Sony.

I like those 2 knobs deal, or in the case of CD player head unit: I like the round smaller volume knob deal.

Q.

 

[TooManyWheels]

There is a company that puts modern electronics into or behind "classic" american faces. Maybe they do it for European cars too. I'll look around.

 

[RTexasF]

Honestly I don't think $500 would touch it, the exception being a new head unit which you don't want or new speakers. The first thing I would do is upgrade the speakers....ALL of them. Next, with stock head unit, is send the signal to a processor like the JL Audio Clean Sweep. From there to a four or five channel amp depending if you want a subwoofer or not.

For the money I think you are limited to a new head unit with ancient speakers or new speakers with an ancient head unit. New speakers will make an immediate positive difference and improve as they break in.

 

[97tbird]

Or you can do a decent looking new(er) mid-end head unit (there ARE decent / classy looking ones if you look hard enough), AND replace the speakers with some mid-end new(er) speakers. $500 will cover that.

Is the stereo DIN sized in your car?

Look in crutchfields.com

Going into JLA stuff demands a much bigger budget.

 

[JHZR2]

Originally Posted By: RTexasF
Honestly I don't think $500 would touch it, the exception being a new head unit which you don't want or new speakers. The first thing I would do is upgrade the speakers....ALL of them. Next, with stock head unit, is send the signal to a processor like the JL Audio Clean Sweep. From there to a four or five channel amp depending if you want a subwoofer or not.

For the money I think you are limited to a new head unit with ancient speakers or new speakers with an ancient head unit. New speakers will make an immediate positive difference and improve as they break in.


What would touch it then? Seems to me that "decent" speakers are about $100-150 a set. I only have four speakers in each car, and Im not making new holes. So $300 for speakers and $200 for a 4-ch amp, plus some money to install (some of which I could do too). Seems reasonable to me. Id consider a small under seat subwoofer, but Im not building any boxes or anything like that.

The intent is to get as good of sound qauality as possible while maintaining the original head units.

If I just put new speakers in, wont the sensitivity be inadequate for the power rating of these old head units (what do they put out, maybe 6W?), and then compromise sound?

If I feed an amp with speaker level inputs from the head unit, and then wire to the speakers, what are the compromises/issues associated with that?

Thanks!

 

[97tbird]

That's why i suggested upgrading BOTH h-unit and speakers on a mid-level price range - you WILL notice a pretty big difference.

Just look around on Crutchfileds and I am sure you will find something that's not hideous.

With decent speakers and a good decent HU you may not even need a separate sub.

 

[JHZR2]

Originally Posted By: 97tbird
That's why i suggested upgrading BOTH h-unit and speakers on a mid-level price range - you WILL notice a pretty big difference.

Just look around on Crutchfileds and I am sure you will find something that's not hideous.

With decent speakers and a good decent HU you may not even need a separate sub.


On 30 year old cars they are all hideous. That is a non-starter to me. I desire to engineer a solution around the USE of the OE head unit. That is my basis. Modifying the original HU creates the trivial solution which is not what I am interested in.

 

[dparm]

Originally Posted By: 97tbird

With decent speakers and a good decent HU you may not even need a separate sub.


Seconded. In my S2000 I got a high-end Pioneer Premier head unit ($350) and paired it with Infinity Reference component speakers ($400) with their own crossovers. Sounded phenomenal...far better than just about any other factory setup I've ever heard.

I find the Pioneer Premier stuff is rather understated. When powered off, it's basically all-black. I never used the flashy animated displays, just had it show the track title and clock.

 

[typ901]

Why not something like this?

http://www.audio-10.com/Mercedes-Audio-10-CD-Radio-Alpine-MF2910

 

[JHZR2]

Originally Posted By: typ901
Why not something like this?

http://www.audio-10.com/Mercedes-Audio-10-CD-Radio-Alpine-MF2910


That's simple and nice looking. For $200 Euro, it isnt terribly priced.

But in my 81 MB Im not removing the analog radio.

What is so terrible about maintaining the original HU, especially if I am going to use an aftermarket amplifier?

And particularly if something like the clean sweep is to be used.

Seriously, if one was just to send the speaker level signals from the OE HU to a 4-ch amp, and then send that to four modern speakers, what would be the downside or problems?

I see a ton of recommendations for replacing the HU, but no good reasoning why.

Thanks for all the responses!

 

[JHZR2]

Originally Posted By: dparm


I find the Pioneer Premier stuff is rather understated. When powered off, it's basically all-black. I never used the flashy animated displays, just had it show the track title and clock.

Still would stick out like a sore thumb to me. Not my taste. I like original looking.

If it is impossible to improve sound quality or performance with the OE HU, that is an acceptable answer too. I just find it hard to believe.

 

[typ901]

My deal is for Bluetooth! I would like to replace my head unit in my W210. In Chicago and growing number of 'burbs you need to make all calls handsfree. That and being able to play songs thru iPhone cable would be nice as well.

 

[97tbird]

even if you use a mega good 4 ch amp, the PRE AMP is still your OLD head unit - the PRE amp section plays a bigger role in overall SQ, IMO. the 4 ch amp does just that - it will provide more output, and loudness - the QUALITY of sound will still depend on your HU, which although it's OEM and nice, will be no match for even the mid end newer ones...

But if you want to keep the OEM look at its max, then you have no other choice.

 

[TooManyWheels]

Originally Posted By: TooManyWheels
There is a company that puts modern electronics into or behind "classic" american faces. Maybe they do it for European cars too. I'll look around.


The one I had in mind doesn't do European. But this one does.

 

[JHZR2]

Originally Posted By: TooManyWheels
Originally Posted By: TooManyWheels
There is a company that puts modern electronics into or behind "classic" american faces. Maybe they do it for European cars too. I'll look around.


The one I had in mind doesn't do European. But this one does.


See, my OE head units (Becker/H/K) ARE indeed refurbished. They integrate an ipod input into the system somehow at the amplifier, it works kind of like the cassette deck where when an electric path is sensed, the radio shuts off and this other input stage is utilized.

So the radio has been brought back to spec, cleaned/refurbished fully, and even has the input.

The only thing that could be lacking is power compared to newer units, but that's what the amp is for.

if I like the sound in my vehicle right now, why should I be concerned that the pre-amp is coloring it somehow? If that is indeed a real problem, couldnt I get one of the interface sampling boxes that flattens the sound characteristics to minimize such effects? (e.g. cleansweep)

 

[dparm]

Upgrade the amp but leave the stock headunit. I find that most factory amps are weak as [censored].

 

[JHZR2]

Originally Posted By: dparm
Upgrade the amp but leave the stock headunit. I find that most factory amps are weak as [censored].


That was my initial intent!!!

The question is what should I be looking for? Is there any reason to not go class D? What brands of speakers, etc. Im restricted to 5 1/4 and 4" speakers, so I would consider the smallest under seat sub available. Im not worried about a huge thump that shakes the car at 20 Hz, but do care about getting good sound at 80-200Hz. Im not building a movie theater.

Also there are the devices like the JBL Cleansweep...

If th the h-u puts out an adequate line voltage, to be able to drive the amps properly with no perceptible noise, then what? Shouldnt it be that what the pre amp puts out (.2V, 4V , 5V or 9V) is irrellevent? If so, then do I need a line driver or anything else?

These are midsize sedan type cars, FWIW. Only consideration is sound quality for the driver. My wife inst that into it besides a low level sound of music, and we dont usuallyhave anyone in the back seats... not critically listening for sure.