ATF change concern- 2002 Toyota 3.0L w/200000 mile

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2002 Sienna, 200,000 miles, MAY have had ATF change at 100,000. Went to independent transmission location and they scanned it, looked it over, etc, and said not to change the transmission fluid, due to varnish build up. Concern was probably more harm than good would be done.
Car runs very good and everything else is in very good shape. Wanting to try to get 300,000 miles from this car.
Looking for well thought out options.
 
I claim B.S. on the transmission shop. Do you have the factory transmission cooler on your Sienna? If you do that is good as it helps to keep temperatures down.

If you want my personal opinion on getting to 300,000 miles on that van, I suggest you use M1 ATF changed out on some sort of regular interval. The Sienna has a drain plug on the pan (plus one on the differential), why not do a drain and fill several times? That won't cause problems. There is no separate fill for the differential despite the separate drain. They share fluid in this transmission but you can drain each one (which I would recommend).

When I have done a pan drop on my Sienna with a steady diet of M1 ATF, there has been only a minimal amount of clutch "goop" in the pan and almost nothing on the magnets. I can't say enough good stuff about that ATF.

Originally Posted By: scion_xb
2002 Sienna, 200,000 miles, MAY have had ATF change at 100,000. Went to independent transmission location and they scanned it, looked it over, etc, and said not to change the transmission fluid, due to varnish build up. Concern was probably more harm than good would be done.
Car runs very good and everything else is in very good shape. Wanting to try to get 300,000 miles from this car.
Looking for well thought out options.
 
Call up a dealer and ask what they think. Better yet try and reach Toyota USA and see if they have any advice. i dont see why you would get a problem with a drain and fill. Or you can just leave it as is and take your chances.
 
Trans shop probably meant "they" don't want to change it.

Any good BITOG'r here would evaluate such a situation (changing overdue ATF on someone elses vehicle) with extreme caution prior to doing such a task, lest be blamed for a subsequent failure; it always seems to be what someone did in the last 7K miles, not what was not done the previous 200K.

I would do a D+F a few times.
 
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Yes definitely change, perhaps with some Maxlife. You only *risk* damage by changing it out, where you're pretty much guarateed failure by leaving it. AISIN units are pretty tough and withstand neglect rather well. I'm rooting for your 300K!
 
I would:

1. Drop the pan and clean the filter and magnets (or change it if it is serviceable)
2. Refill with Toyota ATF only. If the trans calls for DexIII use Castrol Import Multi-Vehicle or Mobil1 ATF.

DO NOT FLUSH.
3. Drive for 5,000 miles and do another drain fill then another 5,000 miles and drain fill. Then another one at 220,000 and 250,000.

This way you introduce the fluid slowly. You are taking a chance doing this but that ATF has to come out of there.
 
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Drain and fill three times with time in between to circulate fluid. Maybe 10 miles of driving between or longer if you want to do it every weekend or such. The old fluid isn't doing you any favors.
 
Are you getting the picture? Everyone agrees to introduce new ATF slowly by doing multiple drain fills. 4 drain fills should get you about 85% new ATF.
 
Originally Posted By: JethroBodine
I would:

1. Drop the pan and clean the filter and magnets (or change it if it is serviceable)
2. Refill with Toyota ATF only. If the trans calls for DexIII use Castrol Import Multi-Vehicle or Mobil1 ATF.

DO NOT FLUSH.
3. Drive for 5,000 miles and do another drain fill then another 5,000 miles and drain fill. Then another one at 220,000 and 250,000.

This way you introduce the fluid slowly. You are taking a chance doing this but that ATF has to come out of there.


You don't have to drop the pan. The Sienna has a drain plug for the transmission.

Instead of waiting 5000 miles between changes with the 3x "flush" method, you only need to drive a few blocks between changes

After this, you only need to do one drain and fill every 30k
 
Many transmission shops don't want to service/change the ATF because the transmission can fail anytime after 150-200k miles and they will get blame for it: "You changed the ATF last week/month (or x-weeks/x-months ago) and now it doesn't shift right"
 
Originally Posted By: tommygunn

You don't have to drop the pan. The Sienna has a drain plug for the transmission.

Instead of waiting 5000 miles between changes with the 3x "flush" method, you only need to drive a few blocks between changes

After this, you only need to do one drain and fill every 30k


Normally, I would agree. But he doesn't know if the ATF has ever been changed. It could be the factory fill in there with 200k. If that is true I would be hesitant to hit all of the potential varnish with 80% new ATF all at once. I think slow cleaning would be better. He will know if after the first 5000 interval the ATF is black. Therefore, I would drop the pan to have a look.
 
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I'll offer this, and I'll probably get flamed for it ...

Consider using some ARX to release the "varnish" slowly and carefully, rather than slamming it with a quick flush. First, soften it up and get it back into suspension in the fluid, then do a rinse. Follow the ARX directions.

This is one of the easiest and least cost methods to at least attempt some form of restoration to the formerly clean parts. Varnish is really only a big issue in the valve body; the gears and such are not really at risk. The risk is in getting debris stuck in a spool valve, etc.

The ARX is a product that works slowly and methodically.

Some folks have had poor results (little to no improvment) when using ARX. Somen like me, have had great results. It has always been my theory that the ARX works best on parts that move in relation to each other. IOW - ARX may not clean varnish off of a camshaft tower or connecting rod beam, because there really isn't any relative action against those parts. But the interaction of mechanical parts (piston rings, seals/shafts, shift valves, etc) is where it shines. I think of it similar to cleaning your hands. If you simply soak your hands is soapy water, it might release some dirt. But if you scrub with the soap, the soft abrasion lift the contaminants and suspends them in the soap. ARX, in my mind, works similarly. That's why some folks have great success and others do not; it's based upon the application and the expecation of what it's asked to do.

I'm not giving anyone an assurance that it will work. I'm only pointing out that slow cleaning is much safer than a hurried slam of several OCIs. And it's "cheap" compared to a rebuild. If it does not work, it's not like your out that much money in the grand scheme of things. And, when done correctly, it is complimentary to the OCI change procedure.

Food for fodder.
 
I'd do a few drains, as mentioned in this thread. You can space them a few miles apart or do one a week for three weeks. I'd do one a week, which would be about 300 miles apart. On the final fill I'd add a bottle of Lubegard Red and call it done. Going forward change the ATF every 30,000-35,000 miles.
 
Originally Posted By: scion_xb
2002 Sienna, 200,000 miles, MAY have had ATF change at 100,000. Went to independent transmission location and they scanned it, looked it over, etc, and said not to change the transmission fluid, due to varnish build up. Concern was probably more harm than good would be done.
Car runs very good and everything else is in very good shape. Wanting to try to get 300,000 miles from this car.
Looking for well thought out options.


You need to change it if you want to get to 300K. The transmission shop does not want to get involved. Little money, lot of risk.

Add a Magnefine inline filter ($20) and then do drain & fills. A flush would be OK, but drain & fills introduce fresh ATF more slowly.

Consider Auto-Rx also. I had it in my AT for maybe 10K miles.
 
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Just drive it, its a 200k mile 10 year old transmission. Its probably going to need a rebuild at some point, don't hurry it along.
 
Dumb advice. The Aisin 541E in that van is a very durable and long-lived transmission with proper maintenance.

It is neither "going to need a rebuild" nor will the OP "hurry it along" by changing out the fluid.

Originally Posted By: hattaresguy
Just drive it, its a 200k mile 10 year old transmission. Its probably going to need a rebuild at some point, don't hurry it along.
 
It is not required to use OEM Toyota ATF in this transmission. Typing it in all caps will not make it any more so either.



Originally Posted By: antiqueshell
Like the other poster here says....

A GRADUAL drain and fill with OEM Toyota ATF.
DO NOT USE ANYTHING ELSE!
 
Shifting well now, I wouldn't be too concerned with the "varnish". If mine, I slowly want to refresh the add pack over time with simple d&f's. Do one d&f now, then next oil change or ~7.5-10k mi. do another. Then another about the same time frame again. Then every, 25-30k from that point on. I wouldn't do 3 d&f's back to back immediately just because it's been awhile since service and after reading here I prefer a little slower approach. Just me.

If the trans is anything my 01 Tacoma 3.4L, it should be fairly rugged.

As for what to use, it calls for DexIII like my Tacoma. I'm currently using MaxLife Dex/Mec with single d&f's, but any Multi Vehicle Dex should easily meet or exceed the old DexIII spec.
 
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