Asteric Viscosity Modifiers

[buster]

Link

Quote:
In comparison to conventional PMA polymers, Asteric viscosity modifiers:
Boost viscosity index (VI)much more per unit treat rate and per unit of viscosity increase
Offer more formulating flexibility – Enable use of Group III oil in place of PAO in driveline formulations while still achieving the desired viscosity profile. Allow heavier starting base oil blends in high VI hydraulic fluids while still meeting the desired viscosity and VI targets.
Achieve very high VI more easily - reduce the need for very light base oils when formulating very high VI or arctic grade hydraulic fluids.
Provide better low temperature fluidity in formulations using the same starting base oil blend.


Quote:
Engine oils are complex fluids. Each oil on the market today contains a carefully balanced formulation of base stocks and advanced additives selected specifically to meet engine and emission system requirements. Viscosity modifiers also play a major role. Advanced polymer sciences enable more efficient operation, beyond just viscometric control, in increasingly severe environments in the engine compartment. Today’s viscosity modifiers are critical in providing maximum efficiency, durability, and engine protection as components become more and more sophisticated.


Quote:
But did you know Lubrizol is actually the industry leader in polymer sciences for lubricants as well? It’s true. As the true industry innovator, Lubrizol has more polymer technology platforms commercially available today (with even more in the pipeline) than anyone else in the market - by a long shot.


All of the most shear stable oils on the market, have relatively low VI.

RL 5w20
Amsoil 5w20
Amsoil Dominator 5w20
Valvoline MaxLife
Mobil 1 5w20/EP

It seems only the ultra low vis fuel efficient oils are using ultra high VI.

 

[addyguy]

I think it's interesting how large-spread oils that used large amounts of VII's in the oil in the past were the bad, sludgemonster oils.

Now, VII's are the state-of-art ingredients in oils.....

 

[uart]

Edit. Replied to wrong thread.

 

[webfors]

Originally Posted By: buster

All of the most shear stable oils on the market, have relatively low VI.

RL 5w20
Amsoil 5w20
Amsoil Dominator 5w20
Valvoline MaxLife
Mobil 1 5w20/EP

It seems only the ultra low vis fuel efficient oils are using ultra high VI.


I've always wondered, can you have an ultra high VI AFE oil that is relatively shear stable? I haven't watched many of the toyota UOAs lately, but I suspect yes.

 

[chubbs1]

Originally Posted By: addyguy
I think it's interesting how large-spread oils that used large amounts of VII's in the oil in the past were the bad, sludgemonster oils.

Now, VII's are the state-of-art ingredients in oils.....


True, but technology and the quality of these polymers and whatever the heck they use are so much more sophisticated. I do think some of the VII's in the past were subpar. Now they are much better...(I know you know this addyguy so don't take that as an insult.) Just a discussion on technology.

 

[CATERHAM]

Nice link to see what these new very high VI polymer thickeners actually look like.
Lubrizol is not the only manufacturer of this new class of thickers. Germany-based Evonik has their patended version.

The Japanese OEM's have adopted this new technology in the formulation of their new ultra high VI 0W-20 oils. It's the only way you can formulate 200+ VI low viscosity oils.
What's great about them is that they are also very shear stable.
In fact the highest VI example of this technology, Sustina 0W-20 (229 VI) is as shear stable as oils contain no VII's whatsoever.

 

[dailydriver]

I was under the impression that the PMA VIIs were the 'high grade/high tech' latest/greatest, iterations of VIIs??!!

The above is stating that only the asteric versions fit this description. Is this correct?

 

[CATERHAM]

The two main advantages of this new class of polymer are:
- less polymer is necessary to achieve a desired finished VI
- it's the only way to achieve a finished VI that's over 200.

 

[dailydriver]

Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
The two main advantages of this new class of polymer are:
- less polymer is necessary to achieve a desired finished VI
- it's the only way to achieve a finished VI that's over 200.


So, it IS the asteric VIIs in the Sustina and Mazda GF-5 brews, and NOT the PMA type??

Is it the PMAs which are in Red Line/Amsoil/etc., or some other type of VII?

 

[CATERHAM]

Asteric is just the brand name of Lubrizol's version of the new very high VI PMA polymers.

We don't know if Sustina or Idemitsu (the maker of the Mazda 0W-20) are using Asteric or some other companies version of this new class of PMA polymer, but there's no question, they are using this new type of polymer.

Red Line and Amsoil aren't using the new PMAs yet or are many others. They've only been available since 2008. I'm sure they're
expensive and using them will involve some reformulation; it's not just a matter of switching polymer sources.

The big tip off that they're being used will be a large increase in VI on their PDS, so until that happens I'm sure most will stick to the cheaper co-polymer types.

 

[CATERHAM]

Here's a Finnish motorsports oil company that's taken full advantage of the latest in polymer technology:
http://www.delron.fi/english/dragster.htm
Their 0W-40 race oil has a 215 VI.
Their 10W-60 race oil a 222 VI.

 

[OpelFever]

Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
Here's a Finnish motorsports oil company that's taken full advantage of the latest in polymer technology:
http://www.delron.fi/english/dragster.htm
Their 0W-40 race oil has a 215 VI.
Their 10W-60 race oil a 222 VI.


Too bad they are on the heavy side of the grade and cost an arm and a leg. While the base oils and additives may be of the highest quality, how much real skill do these guys have in the field of tribology? As with most boutique oils, the claims are wild and no real objective test results are available.

 

[dailydriver]

Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
Asteric is just the brand name of Lubrizol's version of the new very high VI PMA polymers.

We don't know if Sustina or Idemitsu (the maker of the Mazda 0W-20) are using Asteric or some other companies version of this new class of PMA polymer, but there's no question, they are using this new type of polymer.

Red Line and Amsoil aren't using the new PMAs yet or are many others. They've only been available since 2008. I'm sure they're
expensive and using them will involve some reformulation; it's not just a matter of switching polymer sources.

The big tip off that they're being used will be a large increase in VI on their PDS, so until that happens I'm sure most will stick to the cheaper co-polymer types.


Is there a technical name for this new class of PMA polymers which I can use when talking to oil company tech people/tribologists, since I have been saying just PMA polymers, which seems could be taken as the older, much more commonly used VIIs that most of these oils are already using in their formulations??

 

[dailydriver]

Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
Here's a Finnish motorsports oil company that's taken full advantage of the latest in polymer technology:
http://www.delron.fi/english/dragster.htm
Their 0W-40 race oil has a 215 VI.
Their 10W-60 race oil a 222 VI.


It's funny how against testing for/posting HTHSVs all of the Brits and Euros are, especially when WE put such an absolute emphasis on that spec.

(I am having a difficult time getting this spec from Millers for their Nanodrive Racing oils as well.

)

 

[CATERHAM]

Originally Posted By: dailydriver
Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
Asteric is just the brand name of Lubrizol's version of the new very high VI PMA polymers.

We don't know if Sustina or Idemitsu (the maker of the Mazda 0W-20) are using Asteric or some other companies version of this new class of PMA polymer, but there's no question, they are using this new type of polymer.

Red Line and Amsoil aren't using the new PMAs yet or are many others. They've only been available since 2008. I'm sure they're
expensive and using them will involve some reformulation; it's not just a matter of switching polymer sources.

The big tip off that they're being used will be a large increase in VI on their PDS, so until that happens I'm sure most will stick to the cheaper co-polymer types.


Is there a technical name for this new class of PMA polymers which I can use when talking to oil company tech people/tribologists, since I have been saying just PMA polymers, which seems could be taken as the older, much more commonly used VIIs that most of these oils are already using in their formulations??

I would refer to them as the new ultra high VI PMA polymers such as Lubrizol's "Asteric" brand. You could even include the Asteric link which is short and sweet.

 

[buster]

bump

 

[Shannow]

bump and add a link

https://www.lubrizol.com/ViscosityModifiers/Asteric/default.html

Interesting that when the definition of Shear Stability Index is
the ratio of

viscosity loss/viscosity gained by adding the VII

they are advertising the "highest VI per amount of viscosity loss" as a benefit.

Clearly they are better VIIs, but what's the point of chasing VI at the expense of stability ?

 

[turtlevette]

I don't get all the worry about oil being shear resistant. I put 30wt in and 10k miles later it comes out as a 25wt.

So what.

 

[Garak]

What is a 25 wt supposed to be? I know where 20 grades cut off, and where 30 grades cut off. There's no grey area in between.

 

[MolaKule]

For a formulated oil,

According to according to ASTM D6022

SSI = 100X(Vo - Vs)/( Vo - Vb)

Vo is viscosity of unsheared oil with VII
Vs is viscosity of sheared oil with VII
Vb is viscosity of base fluid w/o VII

SSI represents the fraction of viscosity contributed by the viscosity modifier that is lost during shear.

SSI is also proportional to log10(Mw) of the polymer.

The actual shear test is evaluated via ASTM D6278.