Apples -vs- Oranges UOA comparison

[Loobed]

Can a UOA really tell whether one oil is better then another?

Suppose you had 2 identical new work trucks, both filled with the same oil.

Truck 1 is parked inside a garage, Truck 2 is parked outside

The owner of truck 1 starts his truck in the morning, lets it idle for 1 minute then leaves for work. He drives 50 miles one way, then parks his truck at the job site, after 8 hours he gets back in the truck, starts it, lets it idle for 1 minute, then drives home and parks it in the garage.

The owner of truck 2 starts his truck in the morning, lets it idle for a minute, then leaves for work. He drives for 10 minutes to a job site, then parks his truck. He works for 1 hour and 40 minutes, then gets in his truck and drives another 10 minutes to another job site, and repeats this all day, every day. In truck 2 the engine never has enough time to get up to operating temperatures or to boil off water condensation in the oil. Having the truck go through many hot/cold cycles can increase the amount of condensation in the engine. Also repeated starts will cause more engine wear.

The UOA for each truck would show different results for the same brand of oil. So how can a UOA really tell the difference from one brand to another, or from summer to winter.

P.S. GM considers drives under 30 miles to be heavy use.

 

[Mokanic]

One UOA? No. It took almost two years of oil testing to determine which oil worked best in my farm equipment.
One or two UOA's gives you enough ammo to go off half-cocked about a particular oil.
Hey,it only takes one poor UOA for some to declare an oil to be of lesser quality than it used to be.

Perhaps the reason why a service such as Terry's is valuable is becouse the average person probably doesn't understand all that is involved in the analysis when they see it.

 

[mikeg5]

where are you from mokanic? fellow tarheel here from burlington.. oh and nice phrasing too lol

 

[mechtech2]

I'd rather change my oil than spend the money on a UOA, for these reasons and others.

 

[ThirdeYe]

Well I think you could tell if your driving patterns are fairly consistent. I.E. you live in a temperate climate where the temperatures don't fluxuate as much as it does in Michigan (such as SoCal) with a consistent trip distance (i.e. 15 miles each way to work, and that's all the use the vehicle gets) then I believe you could establish some pretty credible trends... my 2 cents.

 

[simple_gifts]

I use a UOA to evaluate the condition of the engine, not compare oils....

-T

 

[Spector]

actually, after over 10 years of consistently having UOA done, IMO Medtech2's comment previously, is basically correct. I rarely have one done now, even those engine that came back with ---- UOA in the past are still running fine today. Other then detecting a coolant leak or major problem they are pretty much useless in day to day driving and engine longevity. most engines today will outlive the rest of the vehicle with just regular reasonable maintenance

 

[Quattro Pete]

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I use a UOA to evaluate the condition of the engine, not compare oils....

-T

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Agreed. That is the main reason for UOA. Majority of today's oils are good enough anyway, so there isn't much need to compare them. The fact that we here on BITOG obsess about a couple of ppm of iron here or there is a whole other story.

 

[buster]

You need to have a trend. Under the exact same conditions through multiple UOA's, if brand X shows 50% less Fe, than yes that oil is doing a better job. Whether it equates to premature engine wear/failure I do not know. It probably does but most would never keep the vehicle long enough to really ever notice.

 

[GROUCHO MARX]

"P.S. GM considers drives under 30 miles to be heavy use."
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I do?

 

[Loobed]

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I do?

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General Motors

 

[Loobed]

I have read people on this board comparing one UOA from one vehicle to a UOA from another vehicle and use it as a claim that a specific brand of oil is better then the other. Also some people are looking for what oil lasts longer. Personally I dont care how much longer an oil can last past 7,000 miles since I will change mine around 6,000 (when the OLM turns on). I dont care how much addative is left in the oil after it's drained. My # 1 concern is protecting my motor and #2 is MPG. So far I have got the best MPG with the GOld German Castrol 0W-30. But that was after I installed a toneau cover on my truck, so I cant say for sure the GC had it happen.

 

[eddyzima]

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I use a UOA to evaluate the condition of the engine, not compare oils....

-T

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+1
UOA's from others on this site can point you in the right direction sometimes for free

 

[Quattro Pete]

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So far I have got the best MPG with the GOld German Castrol 0W-30. But that was after I installed a toneau cover on my truck, so I cant say for sure the GC had it happen.

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Yeah, I doubt GC improved your mpg. Most people observe just the opposite result with GC as it is not an energy conserving oil. My mpg has dropped as well.

 

[Quest]

My # 1 concern is protecting my motor and #2 is MPG. So far I have got the best MPG with the GOld German Castrol 0W-30.

Even for the price you are currently paying for GC 0W30, I pretty much doubt that it would do your engine any harm so long as you observe proper yet conservative OCI.

For Que2, the answer is simple: properly maintain your engine!!! (regular tuneups, fuel filter replacement, air filter replacement, check thermostat for proper functionality, use FI cleaner (like Techron) every now and then, etc.)

 

[Merkava_4]

I'm thinking the main important thing is to keep your engine buttoned real tight to keep the dirt out - and to keep it in good tune so you don't have fuel dilution problems and/or carbon build up on the valves.

 

[Resolute]

I think comparing UOA's from different vehicles using different engines would be a general waste of time. I have seen a lot of benefit of comparing UOA's from the same type of car to identify trends in how certain oils behave in that engine.
For example, I have well over 60 UOA's compiled from 350Z owners all over the country, all using the same VQ35DE engine, and the results are pretty informative. Different owners in different parts of the country with different driving routes have very similar results with the same oils. One user in WA and one in VA can use Amsoil ASL and both have much higher lead wear than Amsoil TSO. PP 10w30 looks good in three different engines, but PP 5w30 has shown high lead in the VQ. M1 5w30 and 10w30 is consistantly on par with average results and no better than GTX, as tested from five and six different engines respectively, while the 0W-40 has been consistantly much better in it's results than the other XOM products. The ppm readings are all pretty close but not identical. What is identical are the trends from one oil to the next despite different drivers and cars.
As long as the engine is the same with the same clearances, pump, materials, etc... then the results seem to be consistant with regards to oil attributes. This can be good information. My own UOA's are always within a few ppm of the average UOA's of the same oil type, and the behavior of one to be higher in Fe, Al, Chromium or Lead wear has always been consistant unless something is wrong with the engine. As such, engines that have fuel dilution issues or anti-freeze present don't have their results factored into the average. This has allowed many owners to get a much clearer picture of what works best in their VQ engine than just people's preferences alone.
Will

 

[pp_rp]

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I'd rather change my oil than spend the money on a UOA, for these reasons and others.

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O.K., but a UOA can tell if you have any one of several engine problems. UOA's are not just for finding the best oil !

 

[lazaro]

not one single UOA to compare