wemay
Site Donor 2023
We're loving the show. Very entertaining and insightful.
Anyone watching the Chernobyl miniseries on HBO?
- Thread starter Bottom_Feeder
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You know what I believe is true about this whole incident....
It is applicable to many everyday incidents...
Poor judgement...
Poor practices...
Poor system in place...
Poor decisions...
Human errors...
Ignoring obvious protocols...
Ignoring obvious bad incoming information...
Equals= terrible results....
Just like what I had happen at the hospital I worked at...
A man died on the operation table due to all of the above... For no dam good reason.. I... Just me... I asked for wound cultures with gram stain, asked for blood cultures... A broad spectrum antibiotic after those tests were done .. I asked for Hospitalist consultation... That poor man passed away for all of the above. And it should never ever should have happened. I knew it was a terrible deal from the get go.... I did his admission that Friday before Christmas... He passed away on that Tuesday evening.
In fact it was such a huge deal it was called a sentinel event.... In my world that is like a Chernobyl type incident... Understandably so... In fact 4 years later I spoke with our chief Hospitalist and she told me they were still working through that case.... A huge, huge deal.... I know she saw my admission notes.... And what I asked for that very Friday afternoon... And if that would have been done... That man would have lived.
Guys..... I am telling you all this... For your knowledge going forward... If something does not make sense to you in a hospital... You push exceptionally hard until someone can make it make sense to you and your family.... This kind of stuff happens.... Those physicians, nurses, and administration staff at that place.... WORK FOR YOU and YOUR LOVED ONE WHO IS THE PATIENT.... Remember this... It may well save yourself or your family member or friend...
It is applicable to many everyday incidents...
Poor judgement...
Poor practices...
Poor system in place...
Poor decisions...
Human errors...
Ignoring obvious protocols...
Ignoring obvious bad incoming information...
Equals= terrible results....
Just like what I had happen at the hospital I worked at...
A man died on the operation table due to all of the above... For no dam good reason.. I... Just me... I asked for wound cultures with gram stain, asked for blood cultures... A broad spectrum antibiotic after those tests were done .. I asked for Hospitalist consultation... That poor man passed away for all of the above. And it should never ever should have happened. I knew it was a terrible deal from the get go.... I did his admission that Friday before Christmas... He passed away on that Tuesday evening.
In fact it was such a huge deal it was called a sentinel event.... In my world that is like a Chernobyl type incident... Understandably so... In fact 4 years later I spoke with our chief Hospitalist and she told me they were still working through that case.... A huge, huge deal.... I know she saw my admission notes.... And what I asked for that very Friday afternoon... And if that would have been done... That man would have lived.
Guys..... I am telling you all this... For your knowledge going forward... If something does not make sense to you in a hospital... You push exceptionally hard until someone can make it make sense to you and your family.... This kind of stuff happens.... Those physicians, nurses, and administration staff at that place.... WORK FOR YOU and YOUR LOVED ONE WHO IS THE PATIENT.... Remember this... It may well save yourself or your family member or friend...
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Originally Posted by dlundblad
The first episode with the cat feeding vs. what they said about the real life character at the end were completely opposites to what I thought happened.
Not sure what you mean. First episode he gave his cat lots of food before he hung himself, supposedly to allow it to live long enough before his body is found.
The first episode with the cat feeding vs. what they said about the real life character at the end were completely opposites to what I thought happened.
Not sure what you mean. First episode he gave his cat lots of food before he hung himself, supposedly to allow it to live long enough before his body is found.
I'm genuinely disappointed that there's no new episode tonight and that the series is over.
Originally Posted by Bottom_Feeder
I'm genuinely disappointed that there's no new episode tonight and that the series is over.
Did you want another nuclear accident? Maybe they'll do one on Fukushima or Three mile island, but those weren't anywhere near as bad as Chernobyl.
I'm genuinely disappointed that there's no new episode tonight and that the series is over.
Did you want another nuclear accident? Maybe they'll do one on Fukushima or Three mile island, but those weren't anywhere near as bad as Chernobyl.
I know they got the rifles right. Those look like Russian/Soviet Mosin-Nagant and apparently, they were still in use in the 1980s.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8n3_C85m57Q
But seriously, it was a good watch. I think they tried to accurately capture what was going on while still giving it some Hollywood style zip to make it more interesting.
I did catch myself wondering how Ulana Khomyuk was able to travel so freely to the site. The last episode clears this up.
All in all, I think it was five hours well spent with a miniseries.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8n3_C85m57Q
But seriously, it was a good watch. I think they tried to accurately capture what was going on while still giving it some Hollywood style zip to make it more interesting.
I did catch myself wondering how Ulana Khomyuk was able to travel so freely to the site. The last episode clears this up.
All in all, I think it was five hours well spent with a miniseries.
It was a very good watch! Ironically, I was helping construct DNGS (Darlington Nuke plant) at the time of this accident and I remember vividly the reaction I seen on some of the faces when we were told what happened.
Later, in 88-89 when I began working in operations, is when I learned the truth of what actually happened. Being as that was many years ago, I am unclear if what I learned at that time disclosed as much as what I learned by watching that series?
Overkill is very knowledgeable/thorough in his descriptions of how our Candu's work. If I didn't know any better, I'd say he worked there.
Here is a pic of one of our Calandria tubes that Overkill talks about. This was taken in a shop setting not in the field, obviously and is an end view of a closure plug that I use to torque shortly after an outage began. Lots of dose doing that but always within regs/procedures.
Later, in 88-89 when I began working in operations, is when I learned the truth of what actually happened. Being as that was many years ago, I am unclear if what I learned at that time disclosed as much as what I learned by watching that series?
Overkill is very knowledgeable/thorough in his descriptions of how our Candu's work. If I didn't know any better, I'd say he worked there.
Here is a pic of one of our Calandria tubes that Overkill talks about. This was taken in a shop setting not in the field, obviously and is an end view of a closure plug that I use to torque shortly after an outage began. Lots of dose doing that but always within regs/procedures.
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Originally Posted by Bottom_Feeder
I'm genuinely disappointed that there's no new episode tonight and that the series is over.
I want them to do another 5 episode mini-series about Fukushima Daiichi.
I'm genuinely disappointed that there's no new episode tonight and that the series is over.
I want them to do another 5 episode mini-series about Fukushima Daiichi.
Originally Posted by irv
Lots of dose doing that but always within regs/procedures.
How many inches of lead between your vital organs and those parts, when working in the field on them??!!
Lots of dose doing that but always within regs/procedures.
How many inches of lead between your vital organs and those parts, when working in the field on them??!!
Originally Posted by dailydriver
Originally Posted by irv
Lots of dose doing that but always within regs/procedures.
How many inches of lead between your vital organs and those parts, when working in the field on them??!!
None. We wore double plastics due to the potential of wetting and we were on radiation coms with rad control remotely. Head and waist packs for dosemitry as well as extremity TLD's.
If we got into a beam or an unusual hot spot, we were informed by rad control to either move left or right or to get out of there entirely. They could see what dose our electronic EPD's were picking up as well as keep an eye on our overall dose amount.
All told, the job was fairly easy but of course well planned out. Lots of planning, permits, REP's (radiation exposure permits) pre-job briefs, etc. I think the most I ever received was 200-250 mrem for about an hours work?
Urine sample of course had some tritium uptake which also converted to mrem but that was never anything more than 20-25 mrem on top of our accumulated dose. (1000 mrem equals 1 REM)
The reason for torquing the closure plugs was to help with the overall dose employees would get while working in the vault, as this, for the most part, would stop the leaking helping to keep the MPCA's down (tritium in air count) while working in the vault. (inside containment)
Not all closure plugs would seal however so we placed things on them we called shower caps and ran tygon hoses down into the fueling machine duct where they would go to drainage and/or dryers.
I have been in the TRF (Tritium removal facility) since 09 and I have received a grand total of 1 mrem. In the plant, however, when doing these closure plugs and other vault work over the years, I have received approximately 3 REM total. Not a lot compared to some others but I did a lot of confined space work up on the turbine hall so that definitely helped keep my dose quite low for all my years spent there.
Here's a few construction pics I shared with Overkill a while ago. I am trying to retrieve more but currently not having much luck.
Originally Posted by irv
Lots of dose doing that but always within regs/procedures.
How many inches of lead between your vital organs and those parts, when working in the field on them??!!
None. We wore double plastics due to the potential of wetting and we were on radiation coms with rad control remotely. Head and waist packs for dosemitry as well as extremity TLD's.
If we got into a beam or an unusual hot spot, we were informed by rad control to either move left or right or to get out of there entirely. They could see what dose our electronic EPD's were picking up as well as keep an eye on our overall dose amount.
All told, the job was fairly easy but of course well planned out. Lots of planning, permits, REP's (radiation exposure permits) pre-job briefs, etc. I think the most I ever received was 200-250 mrem for about an hours work?
Urine sample of course had some tritium uptake which also converted to mrem but that was never anything more than 20-25 mrem on top of our accumulated dose. (1000 mrem equals 1 REM)
The reason for torquing the closure plugs was to help with the overall dose employees would get while working in the vault, as this, for the most part, would stop the leaking helping to keep the MPCA's down (tritium in air count) while working in the vault. (inside containment)
Not all closure plugs would seal however so we placed things on them we called shower caps and ran tygon hoses down into the fueling machine duct where they would go to drainage and/or dryers.
I have been in the TRF (Tritium removal facility) since 09 and I have received a grand total of 1 mrem. In the plant, however, when doing these closure plugs and other vault work over the years, I have received approximately 3 REM total. Not a lot compared to some others but I did a lot of confined space work up on the turbine hall so that definitely helped keep my dose quite low for all my years spent there.
Here's a few construction pics I shared with Overkill a while ago. I am trying to retrieve more but currently not having much luck.
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OVERKILL
$100 Site Donor 2021
Love those pics
Those CANDU 9's really are incredible, and the inlet/outlet setup at that site is the most advanced of the three sites, as we've previously discussed. It of course aided in why DNGS cost so much to build when compared to Pickering or even Bruce, which incorporates half the DNGS arrangement. Had B been built at the time, we'd be gawking at 7,024MW of generating power.
OVERKILL
$100 Site Donor 2021
Originally Posted by Wolf359
Originally Posted by OVERKILL
Had B been built at the time, we'd be gawking at 7,024MW of generating power.
Well as the saying goes, all power corrupts, but we need the electricity.
We do. A brief run-down as to why there's no B-site (yet):
Back in the 1960's, after the success of our first commercial CANDU unit at Douglas Point (now the sprawling Bruce site) AECL (Atomic Energy Canada Limited, our Federal Nuclear Energy agency and the designer of the CANDU) approached the Crown Corporation, Ontario Hydro, with a proposal for an 8-unit CANDU plant with a nominal installed capacity of 4,000MW. The reason was, at the time, Ontario Hydro was in the throes of siting a similarly sized coal-fired facility and AECL saw this as an opportunity to show that an NPP could be less expensive to operate with only a moderate increase in CAPEX. AECL was asked to prove it, and so a proposal, outlining in detail, how the proposed Pickering site would be cheaper than coal, was developed. And that it would pay for itself in 15 years. The proposal was accepted and thus the 8-unit PNGS site was constructed, with an installed capacity of 4,124MW.
The successful construction (1966) and activation (1971) of the Pickering A site had seized Ontario Hydro's interest and so plans for a larger facility on the shores of Lake Huron were developed. This Bruce site would also be an 8-unit construct, but as separate builds, rather than a connected setup like at Pickering. Bruce A broke ground in 1971. Each of the "A" units at Bruce were 750MWe, and it was connected to a district steam system, to be used for other purposes, including a heavy water facility, as Ontario Hydro saw significant demand for it with the expected expansion of the CANDU's into other provinces and internationally. Bruce A was grid connected in 1977, a short 6-year period and so Bruce B, at 800MWe per unit, commenced construction the following year.
At this point, Ontario Hydro was leading the builds itself, no longer leaning on AECL for expertise. AECL was pursuing international interests (India for example) and smaller provincial sites (Point Lepreau, Gentilly). The B site at Bruce was the last step in the push for a 900MWe design, called the CANDU 9, which, as a single-unit plant, would be exported with that name. This was supposed to be a higher output alternative to the successful CANDU 6, which was being built at Point Lepreau and abroad.
In Ontario, ground was thus broken on the next facility: Darlington. Planned as another 8-unit site with these new 900MWe units. The knowledge learned from the construction of the units at Bruce was rolled into DNGS with improvements made in how lake water entered and exited the facility. Problems with algae blooms at Pickering had resulted in the location of the inlets at Bruce being constructed so that they drew their water from way out in the lake. In an attempt to mitigate near-shore warming via the outlet water, Darlington would go a step further and locate its outlet diffuser off-shore as well. Subsequently, two huge tunnels were constructed for the inlets and outlets for the site, each approaching almost a kilometre in length.
During the construction of the 4-units at Darlington A, costs started getting out of control. "Hide and seek for a grand a week" was a popular phrase for those working at the site. The disaster at Chernobyl threw a massive wrench in the mix and the financial crisis with soaring inflation meant that the costs of the now paused construction, went out of control. All said and done, the build was completed, but with a price tag of over $14 billion dollars, almost double the cost of the entire 8-unit Bruce site. The loss of momentum also meant that it was a solid 10-year period between construction and first power, 3 years longer than what it took for Bruce B. This financial train-wreck put a permanent hold on the construction of the B-site and the 4 units that were built ended up being the only CANDU 9's ever constructed.
Since that time, Ontario Hydro has been broken up, power generation spun-off as a separate entity, OPG, (Ontario Power Generation) who has, ever, since been trying to build that B site. They got as far as getting the environmental assessment approved as well as approvals for units to be built there, but the GEA derailed those efforts. Their plan now is to build SMR's there, as Canada has an active SMR program, of which OPG, along with most of the other provincial utilities are members.
Originally Posted by OVERKILL
Had B been built at the time, we'd be gawking at 7,024MW of generating power.
Well as the saying goes, all power corrupts, but we need the electricity.
We do. A brief run-down as to why there's no B-site (yet):
Back in the 1960's, after the success of our first commercial CANDU unit at Douglas Point (now the sprawling Bruce site) AECL (Atomic Energy Canada Limited, our Federal Nuclear Energy agency and the designer of the CANDU) approached the Crown Corporation, Ontario Hydro, with a proposal for an 8-unit CANDU plant with a nominal installed capacity of 4,000MW. The reason was, at the time, Ontario Hydro was in the throes of siting a similarly sized coal-fired facility and AECL saw this as an opportunity to show that an NPP could be less expensive to operate with only a moderate increase in CAPEX. AECL was asked to prove it, and so a proposal, outlining in detail, how the proposed Pickering site would be cheaper than coal, was developed. And that it would pay for itself in 15 years. The proposal was accepted and thus the 8-unit PNGS site was constructed, with an installed capacity of 4,124MW.
The successful construction (1966) and activation (1971) of the Pickering A site had seized Ontario Hydro's interest and so plans for a larger facility on the shores of Lake Huron were developed. This Bruce site would also be an 8-unit construct, but as separate builds, rather than a connected setup like at Pickering. Bruce A broke ground in 1971. Each of the "A" units at Bruce were 750MWe, and it was connected to a district steam system, to be used for other purposes, including a heavy water facility, as Ontario Hydro saw significant demand for it with the expected expansion of the CANDU's into other provinces and internationally. Bruce A was grid connected in 1977, a short 6-year period and so Bruce B, at 800MWe per unit, commenced construction the following year.
At this point, Ontario Hydro was leading the builds itself, no longer leaning on AECL for expertise. AECL was pursuing international interests (India for example) and smaller provincial sites (Point Lepreau, Gentilly). The B site at Bruce was the last step in the push for a 900MWe design, called the CANDU 9, which, as a single-unit plant, would be exported with that name. This was supposed to be a higher output alternative to the successful CANDU 6, which was being built at Point Lepreau and abroad.
In Ontario, ground was thus broken on the next facility: Darlington. Planned as another 8-unit site with these new 900MWe units. The knowledge learned from the construction of the units at Bruce was rolled into DNGS with improvements made in how lake water entered and exited the facility. Problems with algae blooms at Pickering had resulted in the location of the inlets at Bruce being constructed so that they drew their water from way out in the lake. In an attempt to mitigate near-shore warming via the outlet water, Darlington would go a step further and locate its outlet diffuser off-shore as well. Subsequently, two huge tunnels were constructed for the inlets and outlets for the site, each approaching almost a kilometre in length.
During the construction of the 4-units at Darlington A, costs started getting out of control. "Hide and seek for a grand a week" was a popular phrase for those working at the site. The disaster at Chernobyl threw a massive wrench in the mix and the financial crisis with soaring inflation meant that the costs of the now paused construction, went out of control. All said and done, the build was completed, but with a price tag of over $14 billion dollars, almost double the cost of the entire 8-unit Bruce site. The loss of momentum also meant that it was a solid 10-year period between construction and first power, 3 years longer than what it took for Bruce B. This financial train-wreck put a permanent hold on the construction of the B-site and the 4 units that were built ended up being the only CANDU 9's ever constructed.
Since that time, Ontario Hydro has been broken up, power generation spun-off as a separate entity, OPG, (Ontario Power Generation) who has, ever, since been trying to build that B site. They got as far as getting the environmental assessment approved as well as approvals for units to be built there, but the GEA derailed those efforts. Their plan now is to build SMR's there, as Canada has an active SMR program, of which OPG, along with most of the other provincial utilities are members.
https://www.cnn.com/style/article/david-mcmillan-chernobyl/index.html
Some more recent photography of the Exclusion Zone.
Some more recent photography of the Exclusion Zone.
JHZR2
Staff member
This series is available for streaming on American Airlines these days. Watched about 1.5 episodes.
Apparently RBMK reactors don't explode... so I look forward to watching on future flights to see how they do...
Apparently RBMK reactors don't explode... so I look forward to watching on future flights to see how they do...
Originally Posted by JHZR2
This series is available for streaming on American Airlines these days. Watched about 1.5 episodes.
Apparently RBMK reactors don't explode... so I look forward to watching on future flights to see how they do...
Anything is a smoke machine if you operate it wrong enough!
This series is available for streaming on American Airlines these days. Watched about 1.5 episodes.
Apparently RBMK reactors don't explode... so I look forward to watching on future flights to see how they do...
Anything is a smoke machine if you operate it wrong enough!
JHZR2
Staff member
Originally Posted by Skippy722
Originally Posted by JHZR2
This series is available for streaming on American Airlines these days. Watched about 1.5 episodes.
Apparently RBMK reactors don't explode... so I look forward to watching on future flights to see how they do...
Anything is a smoke machine if you operate it wrong enough!
So American only offered the first four episodes, not the fifth. Seriously?!??!?!??!?
Fortunately I was with a friend this week who worked at Naval Reactors, and had to learn the case study... so we had a good conversation on void coefficients and managing neutrons.
Originally Posted by JHZR2
This series is available for streaming on American Airlines these days. Watched about 1.5 episodes.
Apparently RBMK reactors don't explode... so I look forward to watching on future flights to see how they do...
Anything is a smoke machine if you operate it wrong enough!
So American only offered the first four episodes, not the fifth. Seriously?!??!?!??!?
Fortunately I was with a friend this week who worked at Naval Reactors, and had to learn the case study... so we had a good conversation on void coefficients and managing neutrons.
Originally Posted by JHZR2
Originally Posted by Skippy722
Originally Posted by JHZR2
This series is available for streaming on American Airlines these days. Watched about 1.5 episodes.
Apparently RBMK reactors don't explode... so I look forward to watching on future flights to see how they do...
Anything is a smoke machine if you operate it wrong enough!
So American only offered the first four episodes, not the fifth. Seriously?!??!?!??!?
Fortunately I was with a friend this week who worked at Naval Reactors, and had to learn the case study... so we had a good conversation on void coefficients and managing neutrons.
You can sign up HBO for 7 days out. The details of tech and actually reproducing reality (vehicles, scenes) etc is amazing.
Originally Posted by Skippy722
Originally Posted by JHZR2
This series is available for streaming on American Airlines these days. Watched about 1.5 episodes.
Apparently RBMK reactors don't explode... so I look forward to watching on future flights to see how they do...
Anything is a smoke machine if you operate it wrong enough!
So American only offered the first four episodes, not the fifth. Seriously?!??!?!??!?
Fortunately I was with a friend this week who worked at Naval Reactors, and had to learn the case study... so we had a good conversation on void coefficients and managing neutrons.
You can sign up HBO for 7 days out. The details of tech and actually reproducing reality (vehicles, scenes) etc is amazing.
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