Anyone cut open an Amsoil EaO filter?
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Why did the ppm go down significantly from one analysis to the other? I am a bit confused, did Dyson lab perform the second analysis? I was under the impression that Dyson interpreted lab results, i.e. from OAI, Blackstone, etc. ? Also, I am curious how these filters compare to the Fleetguard Microglass or the Fleetguard Stratapore as they appear to be similar in construction. I have heard it said that Microglass filters better, but Stratapore filters can be used longer?
Thanks,
Brian
Thanks,
Brian
Brian, I am leaning towards the theory that the EaO filter alone dropped the wear levels.
The new Dyson Premium Service is from a lab that is limited by agreement to perform automotive testing for Dyson exclusively. I am have not been totally satisified with the existing labs test results performance for us, for many reasons. One big one is they also compete with me. Using my name to gain business and I get left in the dust when people buy on price only.
This lab has been used in the past to perform proprietary testing for us in formulating. I still don't want to get into the lab business but have the next best thing. See our website for more details.
In the future I want to offer an on board sensor setup, collecting data in a wireless mode that will eliminate some aspects of oil analysis testing and do it all in realtime for those that want it.
Terry
The new Dyson Premium Service is from a lab that is limited by agreement to perform automotive testing for Dyson exclusively. I am have not been totally satisified with the existing labs test results performance for us, for many reasons. One big one is they also compete with me. Using my name to gain business and I get left in the dust when people buy on price only.
This lab has been used in the past to perform proprietary testing for us in formulating. I still don't want to get into the lab business but have the next best thing. See our website for more details.
In the future I want to offer an on board sensor setup, collecting data in a wireless mode that will eliminate some aspects of oil analysis testing and do it all in realtime for those that want it.
Terry
Terry,
The same exact filter (not changed) was used in both analysis so it became more efficient over time at cleaning the oil? The only other explanation I could think of is that the different lab is a factor. I will check your website.
Thanks,
Brian
The same exact filter (not changed) was used in both analysis so it became more efficient over time at cleaning the oil? The only other explanation I could think of is that the different lab is a factor. I will check your website.
Thanks,
Brian
Hi Terry,
thanks for updating this thread. It sure makes me feel better about my decision to change out my oil/filter yesterday with XL5w20 and an EaO13. I was thinking of switching to a Napa Gold after I've used the EaO's, but your comments have changed my mind. I will be sticking with the EaO's from now on. I'll give my left over SDF and Napa Gold to a friend
I do however have one question, I changed my factory oil out at 4k km, about 2500 miles. Reading this board will tell you that was a great and terrible idea at the same time, depending on who you listen to. I own a 06 crv, and couldn't bare the thought of running the factory fill till 8k, as recommended for 'severe service'. What's your take on this?
Thanks for your response... truly awesome news!
thanks for updating this thread. It sure makes me feel better about my decision to change out my oil/filter yesterday with XL5w20 and an EaO13. I was thinking of switching to a Napa Gold after I've used the EaO's, but your comments have changed my mind. I will be sticking with the EaO's from now on. I'll give my left over SDF and Napa Gold to a friend
I do however have one question, I changed my factory oil out at 4k km, about 2500 miles. Reading this board will tell you that was a great and terrible idea at the same time, depending on who you listen to. I own a 06 crv, and couldn't bare the thought of running the factory fill till 8k, as recommended for 'severe service'. What's your take on this?
Thanks for your response... truly awesome news!
Very interesting analysis. I look forward to confirmation!!
Thanks for posting Terry!
Thanks for posting Terry!
"What's your take on this?" webfors, Use analysis to quantify your decision making. Why I do not recommend by-pass systems normally, they work, they just don't work that well to justify cost hurdle for you one or two car fleets.
In this case, I prefer to have the lube in a engine breaking in to be as clean as possible so that the particle count is as low as possible, in my experience achieving a better seal on rings and more uniform mating of bearings. I also attempt to duplicate the lube that I believe Honda engineers wanted in that engine for proper wear-in. Havoline 5w20 is a favorite of this analyst. I am currently using that oil in a Mitsu Mivec 2.4 breaking in. In 103F heat of Texas. Another favorite 5w20 is the XL5w20 you are using, it never shows a poor analysis report.
brian, I am familiar with both labs and even with a correction factor there is serious drop across the board in elemental wear levels with YES the same oil filter. Amazing really. I have never been demonstrably able to do that unless using bypass filtration from a remote cart filtering to 1/2 um.
As I see more data and my customers use EaO filters we should be able to point to a real trend. Cost of the filters is an issue from what I hear. I have not seen the filter itself nor do I currently have access to them for further testing.
Pablo would know more about that and highly recommended to visit for procuring these.
Knudsen theory ? Fishbowl, I am becoming more stupid and slow ( lazy) as I age, kids say its stress,.. what is that theory?
Basically as Ted shared you can filter on both the Macro and Micro levels and if I understand the media construct,( using a jet of polymer from a capillary, attracted to the collector by electronic field) they overlay uniform spiderweb formations for this media.
Agree you guys in cold weather should be very happy with this filter if it is indeed as good as we are seeing. Using a lower vis oil with it should be even better.
According to Dr.Cantor at STLE, Amsoil says they can get oil flow through this media to 2C. cellulistic filter media WILL bypass at 10C.
I am interested in the air filters too. That is if theory turns into fact.
Terry
In this case, I prefer to have the lube in a engine breaking in to be as clean as possible so that the particle count is as low as possible, in my experience achieving a better seal on rings and more uniform mating of bearings. I also attempt to duplicate the lube that I believe Honda engineers wanted in that engine for proper wear-in. Havoline 5w20 is a favorite of this analyst. I am currently using that oil in a Mitsu Mivec 2.4 breaking in. In 103F heat of Texas. Another favorite 5w20 is the XL5w20 you are using, it never shows a poor analysis report.
brian, I am familiar with both labs and even with a correction factor there is serious drop across the board in elemental wear levels with YES the same oil filter. Amazing really. I have never been demonstrably able to do that unless using bypass filtration from a remote cart filtering to 1/2 um.
As I see more data and my customers use EaO filters we should be able to point to a real trend. Cost of the filters is an issue from what I hear. I have not seen the filter itself nor do I currently have access to them for further testing.
Pablo would know more about that and highly recommended to visit for procuring these.
Knudsen theory ? Fishbowl, I am becoming more stupid and slow ( lazy) as I age, kids say its stress,.. what is that theory?
Basically as Ted shared you can filter on both the Macro and Micro levels and if I understand the media construct,( using a jet of polymer from a capillary, attracted to the collector by electronic field) they overlay uniform spiderweb formations for this media.
Agree you guys in cold weather should be very happy with this filter if it is indeed as good as we are seeing. Using a lower vis oil with it should be even better.
According to Dr.Cantor at STLE, Amsoil says they can get oil flow through this media to 2C. cellulistic filter media WILL bypass at 10C.
I am interested in the air filters too. That is if theory turns into fact.
Terry
So, my sarcasm at the beginning of this thread with respect to these filters revolutionizing the filter industry might not be that far off.
To justify the cost of the filter, I'll leave it in for 10k miles, and change the oil at 5k miles. This actually falls right in line with the crv maintenance schedule for us canadians on the severe service schedule which calls for the filter change every other oil change. Suits me just fine since the filter is a real pain to change on the crv, and from what you've said, it might be even better to leave these filters in longer
Quite exciting news indeed. Terry, I'm new to UOAs, so I shall contact you via Dyson to get the details on how to go about it at my next interval.
To justify the cost of the filter, I'll leave it in for 10k miles, and change the oil at 5k miles. This actually falls right in line with the crv maintenance schedule for us canadians on the severe service schedule which calls for the filter change every other oil change. Suits me just fine since the filter is a real pain to change on the crv, and from what you've said, it might be even better to leave these filters in longer
Quite exciting news indeed. Terry, I'm new to UOAs, so I shall contact you via Dyson to get the details on how to go about it at my next interval.
sorry wrong post wrong section
i am stupid
i am stupid
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Don't get down on yourself. Others will take care of that for you
I was told by an Amsoil dealer that the EaA air filters also have better air flow as they get loaded (compared to other brand air filters) based on the Knudsen theory. The particles sitting on the nano material act like an air foil, or like an airplane wing creates lift. Kind a makes sense, i guess
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Be mindful of your thoughts, my young padawan ..for anger can lead to the dark side.
If interested I'll test the media for pore size if someone is willing to send me a small patch (2"x2") of the media. I did the testing for the oilfilterstudy.com that use to be online, this would be good comparison data against all those. I would would use the same equipment and test fluids.
If interested, send me a PM.
Any takers?
Tim
If interested, send me a PM.
Any takers?
Tim
Please do eventually post your results in this thread so I can be notified. I too would be interested to see these results.
Shultz, I'd only be able to send you used stuff, cause I'm not rich enough to cut up a new one for ya
But I won't have a used sample for another 10k.
Shultz, I'd only be able to send you used stuff, cause I'm not rich enough to cut up a new one for ya
And yes, would certainly like to see some oil analysis results with "before & after" particle counts. Particle count results would give us a clear, immediate, concise answer as to the new filter's real world capabilities.
As soon as the new Amsoil filter is available for my Ducati motorcycle (which was supposed to be July 1, NOT), I will capture and perform particle counts with the OEM cellulose and the Ae. The Ducati, with its combined engine sump and gearbox, produces high amounts of wear metals, thus enabling a very high wear metal/dirt baseline. Ultra fine filtration should be evidenced very well/easily with particle counting and spectro.
George
As soon as the new Amsoil filter is available for my Ducati motorcycle (which was supposed to be July 1, NOT), I will capture and perform particle counts with the OEM cellulose and the Ae. The Ducati, with its combined engine sump and gearbox, produces high amounts of wear metals, thus enabling a very high wear metal/dirt baseline. Ultra fine filtration should be evidenced very well/easily with particle counting and spectro.
George
I can't believe this! Here, Me, Mr. Mobil Oil is pursuing the Amsoil Ae filter and not one, not one single response from the gazillion Amsoil dealer force online here at BITOG! Wow this site has changed! A year ago I would have been deluged with offers of where to buy the Amsoil Ae filter and secondly, gentle jabs of my investigating this new technology filter what with the Mobil stamp on my forehead... 
George Morrison, STLE CLS
George Morrison, STLE CLS
webfors...your alright...thanks for your fairness and tact in retracting your statement
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I'm interested in if this assertion from Dr. Cantor is indexed for a given fluid viscosity. I'd really like to understand the conditions that the statement was relating to.
All of my empirical observations have been that, as long as no pump relief action is employed, the filter is merely a minor component in a series circuit. It always maintains a proportional ratio between it and the engine ..with the engine producing the lion's share of the resistance. When I have any viscosity fluid that doesn't produce peak pressure, the typical max PSID is about 2PSID (for example 82/80) cold. As the oil warms ..the difference will be lower ..but will progress as the filter loads. So with a loaded filter ..that PSID figure will rise with the engine back pressure ..and in relationship to it.
I've yet to detect/observe a reactive component to this when the relief is closed. That is, an "impedence" that strays outside of linear models where the filter gains PSID just due to flow that isn't on time with gained pressure generated by the engine.
Now when the pump relief is open
I would love to explore this further because it's somewhat upsetting my whole belief in how some things work. I'm always open for learning something new and realizing the error of my problem solving methods and conceptual constructs.
I'd like to add that much depends on what test method you're using. In a zero pressure downstream return line, like the one in Grease's filter study where swatches were tested for flow at given PSID levels. This could surely result in a "bypass level" event if applied to an integrated filter. I the engine, however, it would fall into a heirarchy relationship of all resistances in the fluid cirucit. I don't think that anyone employs anything like the system that SWRI uses ..where they apply all standards to a given engine. That is, a tester would apply a flow through a filter with a downstream orifice that was to represent an engine.
[ August 04, 2006, 01:51 PM: Message edited by: Gary Allan ]
Wow...looks like you could actually run M1 with this filter and still get acceptable wear metals.
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