Anybody reload?

Status
Not open for further replies.
You are kinda veering of the orig topic aren't you of how the case is alined while neck sizing? Which I showed you!

If you are loading for an autoloading rifle then you need to be at least full length sizing if not small base sizing, as I said in a previous post autoloading rifle's lack the camming power so there for cases need to be at least full length sized!

My bolt rifles at 100 yds will shoot basically one hole around .250 group size and all I am doing is sizing the neck and seating the bullet .001 off the lands.

Military brass is almost alway's thicker that may be one of your problems and I hope your not using IMR 4350 for your M1 loads!!

BTW I was on the Washington State High Power Team for two years.

[ December 03, 2005, 03:35 PM: Message edited by: onequick99si ]
 
"You are kinda veering of the orig topic aren't you of how the case is alined while neck sizing? Which I showed you!"

Yes, and I acknowledge that better than typical dies are needed for neck sizing.

"If you are loading for an autoloading rifle then you need to be at least full length sizing if not small base sizing, as I said in a previous post autoloading rifle's lack the camming power so there for cases need to be at least full length sized!"

You also need more than neck sizing if you're trying force a round into a bolt gun. It may not matter much if you're replacing barrels every 2000 to 3000 rounds.

"My bolt rifles at 100 yds will shoot basically one hole around .250 group size and all I am doing is sizing the neck and seating the bullet .001 off the lands."

My 30.06 bolt gun only does about 1 inch with iron sights, but I also have over 10k rounds thru it and have lots freebore.

"Military brass is almost alway's thicker that may be one of your problems and I hope your not using IMR 4350 for your M1 loads!!"

No, I used 4895.

"BTW I was on the Washington State High Power Team for two years."

Then you're not only a 'real rifleman', who does position shooting, but a very good one too. Considering how many state team shooters there are you easily fall into the 'elite' category.
 
You wrote:
You also need more than neck sizing if you're trying force a round into a bolt gun. It may not matter much if you're replacing barrels every 2000 to 3000 rounds.


Not quite sure of your reloading techniques
however one can reload/necksize rounds and still have them chamber fairly easy in a bolt gun! Yes there will be a hair more tension however they are still easy enough to chamber while shooting rapid fire strings. Setting the case back will actually increase bolt thrust and reduce action life, neck sizing in general will not wear an action or barrel out any faster than FL sizing.

[ December 06, 2005, 08:04 PM: Message edited by: onequick99si ]
 
With neck sizing only the cases grow, eventually getting to be tight to chamber, especially with higher pressure loads. My highpower loads were probably middle of the road with the 168 gr and towards the higher end with the 190 gr. Per the manuals I was getting an estimated 2600 fps which seems to work well with the 30.06. Powder selection wasn't as critical with the 168 gr but ball powder like 760 produced erratic high pressures with the 190 gr. I had access to H4831 for $5 a lb for a long time, no longer, so that's what I used for the 190 gr as it seemed to work better than anything else. {Actually 2600 fps also seems like a good velocity for hunting, where you can choose a caliber and bullet for more energy while keeping the same velocity, all the way up to a .375 H&H). I see problems with 'neck sizing' and tight cases even with my pistol loads.

http://www.6mmbr.com/6PPC.html

6MM PPC -- The Benchmark of Accuracy

Developed by Louis Palmisano and Ferris Pindell (left and right in photo), the 6PPC is the "King of the Hill" in short-range benchrest competition, the most accurate cartridge ever invented. It completely dominates 100- and 200-yard Group BR Shooting. If you want to win in that game, you pretty much have to shoot a 6PPC, or some derivative of the 6PPC design.


....Custom Dies Work Best....Most top 6PPC competitors run their ammo at pretty high pressures. Such pressures demand that cases be full-length sized each time they are loaded. But the trick is sizing the case just enough to allow proper feeding/extraction and no more. To achieve this perfect fit, nearly all the "top guns" use custom dies, precisely fitted to the dimensions of fired brass. Typically, a custom sizing die will reduce the case diameter at the shoulder .00075" to .001". The die will also allow for a little bit of shoulder bump. Nearly all the top shooters use bushings for neck-sizing. Having a variety of bushing allows you to compensate for brass that becomes work-hardened. You can also use bushings to tune loads for different bullets or conditions (tighter "grip" tends to increase pressure). For his .263"-necked brass, Speedy Gonzalez has a full set of carbide neck bushings, in .0005" increments from .256" to .261". He also has four different body-sizing dies, which allow him to choose the exact amount of sizing he wants, both at the shoulder and at the web. Most of us can't afford such a collection of dies, so you want to start with a good basic full-length die that brings in the shoulder a little less than one-thousandth. To check if your die is sizing properly, measure the diameter of a fired case right at the base of the shoulder and lock the calipers. Then run the case through the full-length sizing die. Put the calipers back on the sized case and then slide them down. The calipers should slide one-quarter to one-third of the way down the case. If the calipers can slide to the middle of the case, your die is sizing too much.

http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qa3623/is_199602/ai_n8741947

Loading for high power rifle
American Rifleman, Feb 1996 by Tubb, G David

The next step is purchasing good tools. It is rare to regret buying the best. Good quality cases combined with precision lies [dies] go the farthest to ensure good ammunition. I full-length size all my brass, including my 600-yd. cases, setting the shoulders back 0.002-0.003". This is an example of where high power loading techniques differ from benchrest-the neck-only sizing that works well in one environment does not necessarily work as well in the other. Full-length sizing assures reliable feeding for rapid-fire and also, I believe, provides better performance in the relatively more generous (compared to benchrest) chamber in the across-the-course rifle.
 
I haven't had time to read every post here, but I want to talk about shooting at reactive targets~ things that explode on terminal impact. You guys who shoot at gound hogs, rabbits, coyote's or any other living reactive target for fun and games will someday see that you are totally on the wrong track in life, as I have.

I started shooting at age 5. I know what it's like to hunt men who are hunting you. I'm a natural. I've forgotten more about shooting, ballistics, loading, and terminal impact than all of you put together will probably ever know. I shot surgically precise tight neck weapons. Who here plugs in the Coriolis effect to help determine how and when to take the shot ?! Temperature, altitude, humidity, angle, wind currents, concealment.......only the beginning my friends. Oh, less than 200 yard.....usually I shot from my hip.

I'm not going any further with this topic, but if I can get through to just one of you, I win. KILLING FOR FUN AND SPORT OR AMUSEMENT IS BAD !
 
And all this time I thought onequick99si was the greatest sharpshooter of all time here at BITOG..
confused.gif

I stand corrected
bowdown.gif
 
Would anyone here be willing to teach me on a few rounds?

I am a student so for now buying a the equipment and rig is not too feasible.

Is this an art I must teach myself?

On safety few questions, what are the chances of static ignition of the black powders you work with?

Second case metal fatigue, we all know about metal fatigue and aircraft. Can a reloaded round have structurally weakened regions invisible to the eye that can catastrophically fail after trigger pull? From readings I know one piece of reloading equipment "resizes" the case.

How many times can a case be safely reloaded?
 
Quote: I've forgotten more about shooting, ballistics, loading, and terminal impact than all of you put together will probably ever know.
_________________________________________________


All of you here who think you know more than everyone else will someday figure out you have been deceived...just like I have.

smile.gif
 
Outrun, I have an excellent video on the basics of metallic cartridge reloading. If I can find it, I would be more than happy to mail it to you. Don' believe anyone when the tell you you'll save money reloading- you'll shoot more than you ever did and with more enjoyment.
 
I found a good book on reloading that may interest you guys.
Handloading for Competition making the target bigger. By Glenn D. Zediker.
I thought I knew pretty much everything on how to get the most accuracy out of my ammunition. Well after reading this book I ending up spending another $750 at Sinclair Int for the right tools to get the best performace out of every round. The most important thing you have
to remember is the consistancy of the ammunition.

[ February 26, 2006, 11:14 AM: Message edited by: ALS ]
 
Thanks Slick, let me know if you dig it up.

I did check out the NRA national website and it has a ton of information on many shooting disciplines. I was amazed on there subject coverage. All this time the media has brainwashed me about NRA politics ... the site is dedicated to safety and education much more. Unfortunate bias I will say.

The NRA does have reloading classes which one day maybe I can take. The intro Shotgun and intro Pistol course look great as well.
 
quote:

Hmmm....sound s like somebody was a very bad boy and now wants redemption...

Finding redemption on BITOG ?! Now there's a scary thought.
smile.gif
No Greaser, I'm not seeking redemption here, only putting one aspect of my life out there. The more one kills, the easier it becomes. I only wanted to stress the point about thinking of our actions > no pun intended < when we decide to kill anything. We don't need to kill to have a good time with a weapon. We cannot change the past, but we can learn from it.

quote:

I've forgotten more about shooting, ballistics, loading, and terminal impact than all of you put together will probably ever know.

quote:

All of you here who think you know more than everyone else will someday figure out you have been deceived...just like I have.

Tim, you are exactly correct. I make an arrogant statement.

quote:

Is this an art I must teach myself?

Outrun, All the information you will ever need it out there. You must be the one to use that information to teach yourself the art.

quote:

On safety few questions,what are the chances of static ignition of the black powders you work with?

Modern firearms do not use black powder. Modern firearms use a propellent that produces gas which is very stable and safe.


quote:

Second case metal fatigue, we all know about metal fatigue and aircraft. Can a reloaded round have structurally weakened regions invisible to the eye that can catastrophically fail after trigger pull? From readings I know one piece of reloading equipment "resizes" the case.

You can have case stretching and head separation under certain conditions. You can kill yourself if you do not understand the big picture about loading and shooting rounds. When you start working up a load, stay at least 10 % under the normal pressure for that round and experiment from there.


quote:

How many times can a case be safely reloaded?

That depends on many factors. Type of round, how hot the load is, what type of brass etc. I've reloaded cases hundreds of times. I would fire form the brass, then only neck size the 1st 1/8. Over working the brass and running hot loads down the barrel will shorten case life. After 20 rounds fired for each case, I would typically set the cases in a pan of water so the bottom 2/3 of the case was submerged. Then I would take a torch, and get the neck~shoulder area cherry red.....then quickly tip the case over in the water. This process re anneals the brass in the upper portion of the case and makes it soft again..... without annealing the brass, the necks will start splitting eventually. Never anneal or soften the lower part of the case and head.
 
Geez Savvy..Had alot of catching up to do yes?I shoot to please myself mentally,it is a rocket science...I kill to fill my freezer.
 
"not seeking redemption here, only putting one aspect of my life out there. The more one kills, the easier it becomes. I only wanted to stress the point about thinking of our actions > no pun intended < when we decide to kill anything. We don't need to kill to have a good time with a weapon. We cannot change the past, but we can learn from it."

I agree only paper and clay targets for me. I do not think I could take out an innocent animal for sport. The only deer we ever took out was a passenger car ... inadvertently. My qualm is not about meat, but mans massive advantage against any predator. Blasting a dear with a rifle ... too assymetrical for me.
 
It's called the flow of conscientiousness, or the flow of idea's. While staying on topic is perfectly fine, brainstorming raises our collective awareness and enhances our general understanding of each other and the world around us.

Now .....
offtopic.gif

I believe I've been warned that I have two strikes against me for making what the owners of the site consider political statements. I don't think in terms of politics and I don't have an agenda, I just speak from the heart.

My point is that there is no doubt in my mind that some of my posts were considered too controversial and have been deleted. I love this site, but I cannot allow anyone to dominate my spirit. When you no longer notice me posting, I've been banned from the site.

Peace and good will to all of you.

Savvy
 
quote:

Originally posted by 1sttruck:
With neck sizing only the cases grow, eventually getting to be tight to chamber, especially with higher pressure loads. My highpower loads were probably middle of the road with the 168 gr and towards the higher end with the 190 gr. Per the manuals I was getting an estimated 2600 fps which seems to work well with the 30.06. Powder selection wasn't as critical with the 168 gr but ball powder like 760 produced erratic high pressures with the 190 gr. I had access to H4831 for $5 a lb for a long time, no longer, so that's what I used for the 190 gr as it seemed to work better than anything else. *Actually 2600 fps also seems like a good velocity for hunting, where you can choose a caliber and bullet for more energy while keeping the same velocity, all the way up to a .375 H&H). I see problems with 'neck sizing' and tight cases even with my pistol loads.


Man I love people like you Copy and paste copy and paste (have you ever owned a BR rifle or even shot one) so you find a article that say's BR shooter bump the shoulder back .00075 BFD!!! Hardly full length, and they even quote " Nearly all the top shooters use bushings for neck-sizing " there saying they do both bunch of B$! I own several 6ppc's and a 6 tall dog none of which I never full length sized, if you know anything about true BR rifles you'd know that they are tight neck and don't not need to be resized! As far as case growth that horse $hit, keep em' trimmed and your good to go! I'm sure there are ********* out there that full lenght BR cart's. but those who do don't win any matches! I mean if this is true why in the **** do they make neck sizing dies! (get a clue)!!!

I met Tubb, G David at camp perry almost ten years ago the guy is a real a-hole who is alway's trying odd crap! Besides what he says here (This is an example of where high power loading techniques differ from benchrest-the neck-only sizing ) contradict's the other link you posted!!!!! The info is ten years old outdated!

If you'd like I can give you some pointers on reloading!


http://www.6mmbr.com/6PPC.html

6MM PPC -- The Benchmark of Accuracy

Developed by Louis Palmisano and Ferris Pindell (left and right in photo), the 6PPC is the "King of the Hill" in short-range benchrest competition, the most accurate cartridge ever invented. It completely dominates 100- and 200-yard Group BR Shooting. If you want to win in that game, you pretty much have to shoot a 6PPC, or some derivative of the 6PPC design.


....Custom Dies Work Best....Most top 6PPC competitors run their ammo at pretty high pressures. Such pressures demand that cases be full-length sized each time they are loaded. But the trick is sizing the case just enough to allow proper feeding/extraction and no more. To achieve this perfect fit, nearly all the "top guns" use custom dies, precisely fitted to the dimensions of fired brass. Typically, a custom sizing die will reduce the case diameter at the shoulder .00075" to .001". The die will also allow for a little bit of shoulder bump. Nearly all the top shooters use bushings for neck-sizing. Having a variety of bushing allows you to compensate for brass that becomes work-hardened. You can also use bushings to tune loads for different bullets or conditions (tighter "grip" tends to increase pressure). For his .263"-necked brass, Speedy Gonzalez has a full set of carbide neck bushings, in .0005" increments from .256" to .261". He also has four different body-sizing dies, which allow him to choose the exact amount of sizing he wants, both at the shoulder and at the web. Most of us can't afford such a collection of dies, so you want to start with a good basic full-length die that brings in the shoulder a little less than one-thousandth. To check if your die is sizing properly, measure the diameter of a fired case right at the base of the shoulder and lock the calipers. Then run the case through the full-length sizing die. Put the calipers back on the sized case and then slide them down. The calipers should slide one-quarter to one-third of the way down the case. If the calipers can slide to the middle of the case, your die is sizing too much.

http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qa3623/is_199602/ai_n8741947

Loading for high power rifle
American Rifleman, Feb 1996 by Tubb, G David

The next step is purchasing good tools. It is rare to regret buying the best. Good quality cases combined with precision lies [dies] go the farthest to ensure good ammunition. I full-length size all my brass, including my 600-yd. cases, setting the shoulders back 0.002-0.003". This is an example of where high power loading techniques differ from benchrest-the neck-only sizing that works well in one environment does not necessarily work as well in the other. Full-length sizing assures reliable feeding for rapid-fire and also, I believe, provides better performance in the relatively more generous (compared to benchrest) chamber in the across-the-course rifle.


 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top Bottom