Another story that validates never to finance with the f and I guy at the car dealership

[slo town]

I think a little common sense and reviewing what you are signing will get you far in terms of not getting ripped off.

Problem is you have 10 pages of fine print in lawyer speak. When Sue and I sold a condo we had there was literally a 3/4 inch thick set of documents that were part of us closing escrow, needing to be signed.

Is it fair that the public is expected to read all this just to buy a car? Is it fair that the public is expected to understand lawyer speak? Was it right that my wife and I were expected to read a freaking book just to close escrow on a condo?

Scott

 

[PWMDMD]

A few (very, very few), can take advantage of the teaser rates. I suspect the vast majority are paying more for the vehicle, directly or indirectly, when those so-called low rates are presented to the buyer. And who has the time or desire to go around with the F & I guy. I have a lot to do, I am not picking that battle for my entertainment. I just go in with a blank check from my credit union, and never have to worry about reading the goofy F & I guy's fine print, which is very necessary.

I have a simple process.

1. Go onto the internet and see what everyone else is paying. This takes about 10-30 mins. Maybe I have to signup for a forum or two but it has been easy to see exactly what people are paying for the past decade.

2. Go onto dealership websites and find the vehicle you want with the options you want.

3. Contact every dealership within a reasonable distance and negotiate via email. If they give a stupid initial offer and stop dealing with them immediately. For those willing to play ball, I simply tell the next person what the best deal was so far and ask if they can beat it. I have not discussed financing at this point. I also KNOW what a good deal is based on the interweb. ONE time I couldn't find anyone to play ball and so I waited 6 weeks and miraculously the same dealerships were willing to negotiate.

4. Once I settle on a price then I tell them to run my credit and of course, I already know Toyota's special is 0.9% for 60 months or whatever. I always qualify for the teaser.

5. Go in and meet the sales guy, signs papers with F&I and deny all add-ons, and drive home.

I've done this with every vehicle since 2006. The last time for the Tundra it took less than 8 hours and I negotiated at work via email between patients and drove to the dealership after work and signed for it - picked it up the next day.

 

[JGmazda]

Not everyone has every skillset.

My Wife is a psychotherapist, she would sign just about anything the F & I guy would put in front of her. Reading the fine print on contracts with a lying person selling a car is not her skillset. Yet, she can counsel parents who's child was innocently killed by a drive by shooter, or a college student that was shot by someone he didn't know at a college party. I know I don't have her skillset, not even close. I can't do what she does. She can't match wits with the F & I guy, but she can help grieving parents with the loss of a child.

Just because someone can beat an evil system, does not mean the system is not evil.

Exactly. Some people are made for interactions like these and some have a completely different skillset. Buying anything shouldn't require one to change their personality etc. Crazy.

 

[GON]

We used to call these "unwinds".
Seem the new name is yo-yo.

99.9+% have no issues its the edge cases everyone sees a mile away that shady dealers try to get financed and at some point some one makes a guess so they can sell a car, and then the end user suffers.

I rip through the F&I guy in 15 seconds - here's my social, show me what you can do, here's what I already have from the bank credit union - no Tru Kote.

The F & I guy made the deal. He needs to live with it. Every F & I guy can ask a lender to take some "bad paper" on occasion, in exchange for all the good loans the F & I guy sends the indirect lender. Happens every day. To say this was the Buyer's fault is to not understand how that industry works. Or the F & I guy could have bought down the rate take less profit from the deal. The F& I guy did neither, instead he likely inserted an umbrella up the Buyer's backside when the deal closed, and two weeks later came back to open that umbrella while it was in the Buyer's backside.

Not nice.

 

[UncleDave]

Not everyone has every skillset.

My Wife is a psychotherapist, she would sign just about anything the F & I guy would put in front of her. Reading the fine print on contracts with a lying person selling a car is not her skillset. Yet, she can counsel parents who's child was innocently killed by a drive by shooter, or a college student that was shot by someone he didn't know at a college party. I know I don't have her skillset, not even close. I can't do what she does. She can't match wits with the F & I guy, but she can help grieving parents with the loss of a child.

Just because someone can beat an evil system, does not mean the system is not evil.

This is exactly why ability to buy direct is an option many embrace.

Everyone gets the same good or bad deal at that point in time.

I had to teach my sons how to buy cars by doing it with them. They would have been ripped off if they had no help.

 

[slo town]

Exactly. Some people are made for interactions like these and some have a completely different skillset. Buying anything shouldn't require one to change their personality etc. Crazy.

That, and some people may not be the sharpest tool in the shed. But they're still willing to work hard, honor their commitments, manage their money, and pay their bills. Does that mean there should be a system designed to purposely rip them off?

Scott

 

[UncleDave]

The F & I guy made the deal. He needs to live with it. Every F & I guy can ask a lender to take some "bad paper" on occasion, in exchange for all the good loans the F & I guy sends the indirect lender. Happens every day. To say this was the Buyer's fault is to not understand how that industry works. Or the F & I guy could have bought down the rate take less profit from the deal. The F& I guy did neither, instead he likely inserted an umbrella up the Buyer's backside when the deal closed, and two weeks later came back to open that umbrella while it was in the Buyer's backside.

Not nice.

It's totally lame - but I remember it happening. When the dealer says they cant what the really mean is they decided not too.

i also remember telling a 20 something gal we couldn't get her into that toyota 4x4 for under 19% and she took it.

 

[Leo99]

The times I have been with the F&I guy I say no, then they try to sell the same thing to my wife. My wife is a teacher and too nice to tell them to kick rocks.

I have told my wife she should just stay home for this part of the transaction, and her answer is she is there so I don't rip the F&I guy a new one and end up in a fight before we get the keys. I say "yes dear".

My wife's ex was a car salesman. She goes to war when whenever we buy a car. We were asked to leave a Toyota dealership by the sales manager years ago when my wife got a bit agitated and called them out on their shenanigans. LOL.

 

[GON]

My wife's ex was a car salesman. She goes to war when whenever we buy a car. We were asked to leave a Toyota dealership by the sales manager years ago when my wife got a bit agitated and called them out on their shenanigans. LOL.

L99,

Toyota can ask a customer to leave, as they know they will have another buyer for that new Toyota.

Mitsubishi, Nissan, Chrysler, Cadillac, Lincoln, Dodge, and Buick can't let that happen; they may not be able to find another buyer for some of their vehicles.

 

[mrsilv04]

I belong to a local credit union who is very aggressive when it comes to car loans. They very rarely lose a loan on interest rate. I make sure that they know that I'm buying something, before the dealer does.

Plus, I prefer local servicing on my loans.

 

[JGmazda]

That, and some people may not be the sharpest tool in the shed. But they're still willing to work hard, honor their commitments, manage their money, and pay their bills. Does that mean there should be a system designed to purposely rip them off?

Scott

Spot on!

 

[dishdude]

I have a simple process.

1. Go onto the internet and see what everyone else is paying. This takes about 10-30 mins. Maybe I have to signup for a forum or two but it has been easy to see exactly what people are paying for the past decade.

2. Go onto dealership websites and find the vehicle you want with the options you want.

3. Contact every dealership within a reasonable distance and negotiate via email. If they give a stupid initial offer and stop dealing with them immediately. For those willing to play ball, I simply tell the next person what the best deal was so far and ask if they can beat it. I have not discussed financing at this point. I also KNOW what a good deal is based on the interweb. ONE time I couldn't find anyone to play ball and so I waited 6 weeks and miraculously the same dealerships were willing to negotiate.

4. Once I settle on a price then I tell them to run my credit and of course, I already know Toyota's special is 0.9% for 60 months or whatever. I always qualify for the teaser.

5. Go in and meet the sales guy, signs papers with F&I and deny all add-ons, and drive home.

I've done this with every vehicle since 2006. The last time for the Tundra it took less than 8 hours and I negotiated at work via email between patients and drove to the dealership after work and signed for it - picked it up the next day.

I will not go into a dealership without an itemized quote over email. If a dealership will not provide this, it's a huge red flag and things won't get any easier if you go in person.

As for the story in the OP, the buyers likely had questionable credit and the dealer had trouble finding a bank willing to take the loan....I wouldn't blame the dealer for this.

 

[walterjay]

You have to really watch your back in the finance room. That is where the dealership makes their money. Several years ago my son bought a new car. They said they would finance it at 3.85%. I was there with him. He signed the contract and drove away. The next day I looked over the paper work and the finance contract was for 4.9%. I went back and confronted the finance douche bag and called him on it. He apologized, shredded the paperwork and said he had made a mistake. Yeah right. How many other people had he done that to? I can only wonder.

 

[slo town]

As for the story in the OP, the buyers likely had questionable credit and the dealer had trouble finding a bank willing to take the loan....I wouldn't blame the dealer for this.

The sale shouldn't be finalized until a loan is found.

If someone has bad credit that can stop the sale dead in its tracks. But for those with less than ideal credit it gets murky. I don't see how this is possible in today's connected world.

It seems like finding a bank willing to loan at a certain rate should be as readily available as banks refusing to loan. Finding out that banks refuse to loan seems to be "instantaneous". Why is finding a loan rate and terms not instantaneous like outright refusals?

Scott

 

[GON]

The sale shouldn't be finalized until a loan is found.

If someone has bad credit that can stop the sale dead in its tracks. But for those with less than ideal credit it gets murky. I don't see how this is possible in today's connected world.

It seems like finding a bank willing to loan at a certain rate should be as readily available as banks refusing to loan. Finding out that banks refuse to loan seems to be "instantaneous". Why is finding a loan rate and terms not instantaneous like outright refusals?

Scott

Dealers' package the loans to a lender, called an indirect lender. The indirect lenders are very hungry for these loans from the dealer. They will take a few "bad apples", to get the package of loans, and keep the dealer sending them the loans.

I suspect in the case of this story, the F and I guy was making decent profit on the first loan, and really good money on the second loan at the much higher rate. No question at all the F and I guy could have called the indirect lender and said they need to take this bad apple loan, but instead the FF & I guy reshopped the loan, likely at a much higher commission to the F & I guy.

 

[supton]

All the more reason to avoid car shopping. I try not to buy that often, maybe every 5 years, and am always unprepared.

 

[Wylie6G72]

I think the key is to be informed on what your credit rating is capable of before you go to the dealership. I always pre-arrange financing, and the dealerships usually always offer to see if they can beat it, to which I reply "go right ahead" .

 

[slo town]

I think the key is to be informed on what your credit rating is capable of before you go to the dealership. I always pre-arrange financing, and the dealerships usually always offer to see if they can beat it, to which I reply "go right ahead" .

Or, as I've done twice, finance the vehicle but pay it off in full with the first payment. I've always been told that a lower purchase price is possible because money is made on the loan. This seemed to be the case in these two instances because the salesman flat out said they'd give me a lower purchase price if I financed with them. Of course, you must make sure there is no prepayment penalty or loan origination fees, etc.

I go over every one of my purchases with a fine toothed comb. I account for every nickel of the sale. If I feel like it's worth it I'll buy it. Not once in my 50 years of buying 30+ cars, over half of them new, did I ever pay MSRP. Today's new car market would most definitely NOT be for me.

Although by no means did I do this for fun - because it's not my nature and car salesmen lives matter - but one time when buying a Toyota (my one and only of this brand) I got jacked around twice over a two day period. I finally left in a huff, only to have the sales manager literally run down the sidewalk after me. Let's just say we made a deal to my satisfaction.

I also think buying right before Christmas gets better deals, which I've done several times.

On a related note, years ago I traded in a car at a franchised Chevrolet dealership for a new Bow Tie machine. I had a loan on the trade in but got my next bill in the mail. I called the lender and told them I had traded it in, only for the lender to say they hadn't been paid and that "just because I gave my car away to someone else doesn't mean I don't still owe them money". I called the dealer only to find they were going into bankruptcy. Thankfully they finally paid. But it was a good lesson. Just because you're trading in a car at a dealership doesn't guarantee the dealer will pay off the loan!

Scott

 

[supton]

I think the key is to be informed on what your credit rating is capable of before you go to the dealership. I always pre-arrange financing, and the dealerships usually always offer to see if they can beat it, to which I reply "go right ahead" .

I think I've only bought twice when there wasn't better financing at the dealer--my first car (dumb mistake) and then my used truck (another dumb mistake). The other 3 new cars, I think 1.9% was the highest APR? I think I got 0%, 0.9% and 1.9%, although the last one might have been higher, don't remember (was planning to pay off on the first payment, until the wife intervened--her car, her payments).

The wife did get the F&I guy to shut up on her car though--he tried to tell her all about things that were going to fail / need repairing by 100k on her new Camry. To which she retorted that her current one had needed none of that in double the miles. I gave them MSRP but not a dime more on that buy, was hard enough to find that car as it was.

 

[ATex7239]

All the more reason to avoid car shopping. I try not to buy that often, maybe every 5 years, and am always unprepared.

This.

I’m actually pretty good at haggling. I just hate doing it. I can’t for the life of me understand why people like it. Yard sale people are the worst. They’ll haggle over 25 cent on an old tattered baby blanket with stains on it. We do a yard sale every spring to clean things out and I never look forward to it. Same feeling when it’s time to buy a car.