The media and parts will vary depending on the OEM application. I think the Kia you mentioned calls for a 7500 mile OCI.
Another Napa Proselect failure... 21334 w/11K mi
- Thread starter volk06
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Originally Posted By: volk06
Originally Posted By: FutureDoc
Yeah, don't use a cheap filter for long OCI.
The filter failed but it was not a failure.
Now that's an oxymoron if I've ever heard one.
Ummm no.
When dealing with a mechanical component or a item with a limited expected life, a "failure" is when it fails to meet the expectation. However, because it is a wearing or in this case, capacity-reaching item, then it will (by the laws of physics) fail. However, if it reached that expected life expectancy, then it is not a failure even when the mechanical components end up failing (stop working).
What we are dealing with are two slightly different definitions of "fail/failure"
In this case, "fail" is the term for when something is no longer operational. "Failure" is when something does not meet its design life expectancy.
For example: US Mars rover "opportunity" has been operational for over ten years. Mechanically it will eventually fail (stop working), but the mission is a success. On the other hand, China's Jade Rabbit stopped working after about two days... it failed and was a failure (did not meet longevity expectations).
Originally Posted By: FutureDoc
Yeah, don't use a cheap filter for long OCI.
The filter failed but it was not a failure.
Now that's an oxymoron if I've ever heard one.
Ummm no.
When dealing with a mechanical component or a item with a limited expected life, a "failure" is when it fails to meet the expectation. However, because it is a wearing or in this case, capacity-reaching item, then it will (by the laws of physics) fail. However, if it reached that expected life expectancy, then it is not a failure even when the mechanical components end up failing (stop working).
What we are dealing with are two slightly different definitions of "fail/failure"
In this case, "fail" is the term for when something is no longer operational. "Failure" is when something does not meet its design life expectancy.
For example: US Mars rover "opportunity" has been operational for over ten years. Mechanically it will eventually fail (stop working), but the mission is a success. On the other hand, China's Jade Rabbit stopped working after about two days... it failed and was a failure (did not meet longevity expectations).
Originally Posted By: FutureDoc
Originally Posted By: volk06
Originally Posted By: FutureDoc
Yeah, don't use a cheap filter for long OCI.
The filter failed but it was not a failure.
Now that's an oxymoron if I've ever heard one.
Ummm no.
When dealing with a mechanical component or a item with a limited expected life, a "failure" is when it fails to meet the expectation. However, because it is a wearing or in this case, capacity-reaching item, then it will (by the laws of physics) fail. However, if it reached that expected life expectancy, then it is not a failure even when the mechanical components end up failing (stop working).
What we are dealing with are two slightly different definitions of "fail/failure"
In this case, "fail" is the term for when something is no longer operational. "Failure" is when something does not meet its design life expectancy.
For example: US Mars rover "opportunity" has been operational for over ten years. Mechanically it will eventually fail (stop working), but the mission is a success. On the other hand, China's Jade Rabbit stopped working after about two days... it failed and was a failure (did not meet longevity expectations).
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/failure
Failure 1b: a state of in ability to perform a normal function.
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/fail
Fail 1c: to stop functioning normally.
Ridiculous.
Originally Posted By: volk06
Originally Posted By: FutureDoc
Yeah, don't use a cheap filter for long OCI.
The filter failed but it was not a failure.
Now that's an oxymoron if I've ever heard one.
Ummm no.
When dealing with a mechanical component or a item with a limited expected life, a "failure" is when it fails to meet the expectation. However, because it is a wearing or in this case, capacity-reaching item, then it will (by the laws of physics) fail. However, if it reached that expected life expectancy, then it is not a failure even when the mechanical components end up failing (stop working).
What we are dealing with are two slightly different definitions of "fail/failure"
In this case, "fail" is the term for when something is no longer operational. "Failure" is when something does not meet its design life expectancy.
For example: US Mars rover "opportunity" has been operational for over ten years. Mechanically it will eventually fail (stop working), but the mission is a success. On the other hand, China's Jade Rabbit stopped working after about two days... it failed and was a failure (did not meet longevity expectations).
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/failure
Failure 1b: a state of in ability to perform a normal function.
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/fail
Fail 1c: to stop functioning normally.
Ridiculous.
I wasn't trying to discourage you volk, just thought I would point out that nitrile is an interior material compared to silicone and failure is expected. Hopefully your using a filter with silicone adbv now.
Looking forward to the cut open filter Volk; is this one of the ones that has the combo valve?
Originally Posted By: Drew99GT
Looking forward to the cut open filter Volk; is this one of the ones that has the combo valve?
Heck at this rate, I'm about to call it quit on this site and say the [censored] with it.
If this was a Fram, everyone would be condemning this filter.
Looking forward to the cut open filter Volk; is this one of the ones that has the combo valve?
Heck at this rate, I'm about to call it quit on this site and say the [censored] with it.
If this was a Fram, everyone would be condemning this filter.
Originally Posted By: volk06
Originally Posted By: FutureDoc
Originally Posted By: volk06
Originally Posted By: FutureDoc
Yeah, don't use a cheap filter for long OCI.
The filter failed but it was not a failure.
Now that's an oxymoron if I've ever heard one.
Ummm no.
When dealing with a mechanical component or a item with a limited expected life, a "failure" is when it fails to meet the expectation. However, because it is a wearing or in this case, capacity-reaching item, then it will (by the laws of physics) fail. However, if it reached that expected life expectancy, then it is not a failure even when the mechanical components end up failing (stop working).
What we are dealing with are two slightly different definitions of "fail/failure"
In this case, "fail" is the term for when something is no longer operational. "Failure" is when something does not meet its design life expectancy.
For example: US Mars rover "opportunity" has been operational for over ten years. Mechanically it will eventually fail (stop working), but the mission is a success. On the other hand, China's Jade Rabbit stopped working after about two days... it failed and was a failure (did not meet longevity expectations).
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/failure
Failure 1b: a state of in ability to perform a normal function.
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/fail
Fail 1c: to stop functioning normally.
Ridiculous.
Good, you can look up terms... make sure you look up both.
Failure:
1A: omission of occurrence or performance; specifically : a failing to perform a duty or expected action
2A: a falling short or deficiency
If an oil filter is designed for a OCI of 5000m miles and it is on there for 5001 miles before it ruptures, it is not a design failure. Yes, the failed but was not a failure
So this thread title is inaccurate. The filter failed but it was not a filter failure.
Originally Posted By: FutureDoc
Originally Posted By: volk06
Originally Posted By: FutureDoc
Yeah, don't use a cheap filter for long OCI.
The filter failed but it was not a failure.
Now that's an oxymoron if I've ever heard one.
Ummm no.
When dealing with a mechanical component or a item with a limited expected life, a "failure" is when it fails to meet the expectation. However, because it is a wearing or in this case, capacity-reaching item, then it will (by the laws of physics) fail. However, if it reached that expected life expectancy, then it is not a failure even when the mechanical components end up failing (stop working).
What we are dealing with are two slightly different definitions of "fail/failure"
In this case, "fail" is the term for when something is no longer operational. "Failure" is when something does not meet its design life expectancy.
For example: US Mars rover "opportunity" has been operational for over ten years. Mechanically it will eventually fail (stop working), but the mission is a success. On the other hand, China's Jade Rabbit stopped working after about two days... it failed and was a failure (did not meet longevity expectations).
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/failure
Failure 1b: a state of in ability to perform a normal function.
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/fail
Fail 1c: to stop functioning normally.
Ridiculous.
Good, you can look up terms... make sure you look up both.
Failure:
1A: omission of occurrence or performance; specifically : a failing to perform a duty or expected action
2A: a falling short or deficiency
If an oil filter is designed for a OCI of 5000m miles and it is on there for 5001 miles before it ruptures, it is not a design failure. Yes, the failed but was not a failure
So this thread title is inaccurate. The filter failed but it was not a filter failure.
volk06 has basically shown us that using a cheap oil filter for a 10K or higher OCI is probably not a good idea, I am sure his girlfriends Mom never intended to go this long on an OCI. If volk06 is saying there is something wrong with this oil filter lets not tell him he is wrong.
These are quality oil filters for 10K or more runs on an OCI:
1. Amsoil EaO Oil Filters
2. Mobil 1 Oil Filters
3. Fram Ultra Oil Filters
4. Royal Purple Oil Filters
5. Napa Gold and Platinum Oil Filters
These are quality oil filters for 10K or more runs on an OCI:
1. Amsoil EaO Oil Filters
2. Mobil 1 Oil Filters
3. Fram Ultra Oil Filters
4. Royal Purple Oil Filters
5. Napa Gold and Platinum Oil Filters
Good Point!!!!!!!
Originally Posted By: volk06
Originally Posted By: The_Eric
Volk, 3k seems a bit conservative?
Not if you saw what I saw..... I'm sure the 3K will turn into 5K. I did it on purpose.
I can only imagine. I have ran many of "conventional" up to 10K the oil that drained out did not look like what I saw in that filter.
Originally Posted By: The_Eric
Volk, 3k seems a bit conservative?
Not if you saw what I saw..... I'm sure the 3K will turn into 5K. I did it on purpose.
I can only imagine. I have ran many of "conventional" up to 10K the oil that drained out did not look like what I saw in that filter.
OVERKILL
$100 Site Donor 2021
Originally Posted By: FutureDoc
Yeah, don't use a cheap filter for long OCI.
The filter failed but it was not a failure. 11K is a long time and beyond what that oil and filter should have been used for... it is kinda like having a 2 tonne jack-stand being used for 4-5 tonne vehicle. Of course it is likely to fail but did the part fail or did the user (not you, the GF's mother) fail?
On the other hand, should a P1 filter fail at 4.5K... no.
Not really. Many OEM change intervals are easily that long now based on OLM intervals. If this filter was on an OLM-equipped vehicle the change interval utilized here may have very well been within the range dictated by that device.
Oil filters are expected to remain functional for at least as long as the specified interval for the vehicle they are designed to fit. When one cannot to do that, the filter has indeed failed.
Yeah, don't use a cheap filter for long OCI.
The filter failed but it was not a failure. 11K is a long time and beyond what that oil and filter should have been used for... it is kinda like having a 2 tonne jack-stand being used for 4-5 tonne vehicle. Of course it is likely to fail but did the part fail or did the user (not you, the GF's mother) fail?
On the other hand, should a P1 filter fail at 4.5K... no.
Not really. Many OEM change intervals are easily that long now based on OLM intervals. If this filter was on an OLM-equipped vehicle the change interval utilized here may have very well been within the range dictated by that device.
Oil filters are expected to remain functional for at least as long as the specified interval for the vehicle they are designed to fit. When one cannot to do that, the filter has indeed failed.
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Oil filters are expected to remain functional for at least as long as the specified interval for the vehicle they are designed to fit. When one cannot to do that, the filter has indeed failed.
Good point about the OLM. I guess that is a potential standard for the fail-point.
However, if it does not meet that OLM or manufacturer's OCI but is spec-ed for that vehicle, then it would be a failure.
Thus, 4.5K fail point (or less) on a 7.5K manufacturer recommended OCI would be a fail but a 4.5 on a 3750 recommend OCI would not.
Oil filters are expected to remain functional for at least as long as the specified interval for the vehicle they are designed to fit. When one cannot to do that, the filter has indeed failed.
Good point about the OLM. I guess that is a potential standard for the fail-point.
However, if it does not meet that OLM or manufacturer's OCI but is spec-ed for that vehicle, then it would be a failure.
Thus, 4.5K fail point (or less) on a 7.5K manufacturer recommended OCI would be a fail but a 4.5 on a 3750 recommend OCI would not.
Originally Posted By: daves87rs
Originally Posted By: Drew99GT
Looking forward to the cut open filter Volk; is this one of the ones that has the combo valve?
Me too....
Does not look like it, in fact it appears to be the fancy Motorcraft style "thread end bypass" from what I can see in the pics. Wix uses at least 3 different bypass set ups in the Napa Pro Selects.
With the combo valves part of the nitrile base extends well down into the center tube and is quite visible when you look for it.
Originally Posted By: Drew99GT
Looking forward to the cut open filter Volk; is this one of the ones that has the combo valve?
Me too....
Does not look like it, in fact it appears to be the fancy Motorcraft style "thread end bypass" from what I can see in the pics. Wix uses at least 3 different bypass set ups in the Napa Pro Selects.
With the combo valves part of the nitrile base extends well down into the center tube and is quite visible when you look for it.
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: FutureDoc
Yeah, don't use a cheap filter for long OCI.
The filter failed but it was not a failure. 11K is a long time and beyond what that oil and filter should have been used for... it is kinda like having a 2 tonne jack-stand being used for 4-5 tonne vehicle. Of course it is likely to fail but did the part fail or did the user (not you, the GF's mother) fail?
On the other hand, should a P1 filter fail at 4.5K... no.
Not really. Many OEM change intervals are easily that long now based on OLM intervals. If this filter was on an OLM-equipped vehicle the change interval utilized here may have very well been within the range dictated by that device.
Oil filters are expected to remain functional for at least as long as the specified interval for the vehicle they are designed to fit. When one cannot to do that, the filter has indeed failed.
I just think there are too many variables: stop and go driving, short/long distance, etc. Plus, if you're going to go over the recommended oci by over 50%, why not step up and use a Napa Silver or Gold or Platinum? I'm pretty sure Napa doesn't recommend using their entry level filter for 11K mile intervals.
Originally Posted By: FutureDoc
Yeah, don't use a cheap filter for long OCI.
The filter failed but it was not a failure. 11K is a long time and beyond what that oil and filter should have been used for... it is kinda like having a 2 tonne jack-stand being used for 4-5 tonne vehicle. Of course it is likely to fail but did the part fail or did the user (not you, the GF's mother) fail?
On the other hand, should a P1 filter fail at 4.5K... no.
Not really. Many OEM change intervals are easily that long now based on OLM intervals. If this filter was on an OLM-equipped vehicle the change interval utilized here may have very well been within the range dictated by that device.
Oil filters are expected to remain functional for at least as long as the specified interval for the vehicle they are designed to fit. When one cannot to do that, the filter has indeed failed.
I just think there are too many variables: stop and go driving, short/long distance, etc. Plus, if you're going to go over the recommended oci by over 50%, why not step up and use a Napa Silver or Gold or Platinum? I'm pretty sure Napa doesn't recommend using their entry level filter for 11K mile intervals.
Propflux01
$100 Site Donor 2025
Volk, you should try the OEM Hyundai/Kia filter from the dealer. VERY robust filter, and I am betting cheaper than the NAPA.
11k with castrol gtx?
why? only full synthetics should be pushed that far, and I wouldnt do it personaly.
honnestly, after 10k you gonna be pushing any filter.
By no means I would call this a faliure, since one component ( castrol ) was pushed beyond its limit.
why? only full synthetics should be pushed that far, and I wouldnt do it personaly.
honnestly, after 10k you gonna be pushing any filter.
By no means I would call this a faliure, since one component ( castrol ) was pushed beyond its limit.
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