Another mmo thread

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So two weeks ago at work I was doing a pm service on an 99 E350 Ford van, and during the service I Looked at the dip stick and the fill cap and noticed sludge like deposits on both of them. Well the owner of the van ( a janitorial supply company who we do fleet management for) automatically authorizes us to do any other necessary work that needs to be done (brakes, coolant, ball joints, etc). So i decided to mix in some mmo with the fresh oil that i was putting in. sump capacity is 7 qts so that was a 1.5qts (about 25%) of mmo, and 5.5 qts of valvoline all climate 5W20, and Sent the van on it's way. Well earlier this morning the van came back in to the shop with a coolant leak coming from the small hose on the surge tank, which turned out to be a worn worm gear clamp. After fixing that i decided to check the dip stick and fill tube, and i noticed the sludge on the cap was gone, and the sludge on the dip stick tube was reduced. I also noticed that the oil was very dark, almost like a dark brown, and it only has 1000 miles on it. I decided to change the filter again, but leave the oil in there. This stuff is simply more than just a solvent.
 
I have a corolla with 277000 miles on it. I used mmo after having oil burning problems . I was burning a quart every 5-800 miles. I put a pint in the last 1000 miles of my last oci.I have never used mmo in a crankcase before. I now have 1700 highway miles on this change and have burned about 3/4 of a quart. I think I had a few hardened or sludged valve seals which cleaned up nicely.
 
Sounds good, it could also have been sticking rings which are freeing up. I would do exactly the same thing on your next OCI. Nice report! The product continues to impress!
 
Ya know what else helps clean up sludge? An oil change.
27.gif


Did you happen to cut open the filter you changed out?
 
Originally Posted By: gathermewool
Ya know what else helps clean up sludge? An oil change.
27.gif


Did you happen to cut open the filter you changed out?


For me no need to cut open a filter I was able to see results when I changed out a VC gasket. Or on some of my older cars a peek in the fill hole was all that was needed. Others results were heard when lifter noises disappeared. YMMV
 
You did this on a vehicle that had been maintaining? You saw the sludge during the VCG replacement, then nothing after running MMO at your normal OCI?

I'm not saying I don't believe that it doesn't work, but most people change too many variables at once to attribute a positive change to one of those things.
 
Originally Posted By: KW
This is what I have found when using MMO also. It seems to melt the deposits away fairly quickly.


That is because MMO is 30-40% solvent.
 
Originally Posted By: gathermewool
You did this on a vehicle that had been maintaining? You saw the sludge during the VCG replacement, then nothing after running MMO at your normal OCI?

I'm not saying I don't believe that it doesn't work, but most people change too many variables at once to attribute a positive change to one of those things.


I've been at this for over 35 years now. I changed many a VC gasket and dropped oil pans for friends over the years. Here is a memory brought back over the holidays this year. My brother has a fishing boat powered by a 70's Chevy 250 I-6. He had some varnish and junk up in the valve train we discovered when we changed the VC gasket after he bought the boat. The engine was tired and we were going to re-build the engine, no point in cleaning it up so we threw it back together. Money was tight at the time. We decided to run some MMO for about 50 hours, then at the end of the season, pull the head, and re do the engine. When we finally got around to re-building the engine, we couldn't believe how much cleaner it was!

I have dozens of these stories from decades of use. I like to share, although some people might think I'm planted here from Turtle Wax. LOL
 
Originally Posted By: demarpaint
Originally Posted By: gathermewool
You did this on a vehicle that had been maintaining? You saw the sludge during the VCG replacement, then nothing after running MMO at your normal OCI?

I'm not saying I don't believe that it doesn't work, but most people change too many variables at once to attribute a positive change to one of those things.


I've been at this for over 35 years now. I changed many a VC gasket and dropped oil pans for friends over the years. Here is a memory brought back over the holidays this year. My brother has a fishing boat powered by a 70's Chevy 250 I-6. He had some varnish and junk up in the valve train we discovered when we changed the VC gasket after he bought the boat. The engine was tired and we were going to re-build the engine, no point in cleaning it up so we threw it back together. Money was tight at the time. We decided to run some MMO for about 50 hours, then at the end of the season, pull the head, and re do the engine. When we finally got around to re-building the engine, we couldn't believe how much cleaner it was!

I have dozens of these stories from decades of use. I like to share, although some people might think I'm planted here from Turtle Wax. LOL



Haha. I hope you don't mind me asking questions. I do it out of curiosity rather than skepticism...ok, well I'm a bit skeptical by nature, but that's besides the point. haha

Did he previously change out the motor and gear oil every season prior to the VCG being replaced or did the motor come with the boat in sad shape? I guess I'm asking whether the previous owner's neglect could possibly have been cleaned with the same results with proper maintenance from that point on.

I'm still learning the affects of MMO on abused, poorly maintained vehicles, and whether it has any benefit over simply properly maintaining the vehicle from that point on, maybe doing a few shorter OCI, if anything. OTOH, I don't agree that MMO maintenance doses are required on vehicles properly maintained from the beginning simply for peace of mind.

FWIW, a rattle I attributed to the valvetrain completely went away after using Techron. The rattle was there EVERY day since the cold came, then, a half of a tank into a techron run and it's been gone for a week now...Heck of a coincidence /Hijack : )
 
Originally Posted By: PT1
Originally Posted By: KW
This is what I have found when using MMO also. It seems to melt the deposits away fairly quickly.


That is because MMO is 30-40% solvent.


The question is, does this amount of solvent cause any damage? I have seen good UOA's with MMO added. I have never heard of catastrophic failure due to MMO (actually, the opposite) I tend to hear stories of engines with long service life that used MMO.

I am using it in my Saturn with the sticking oil control ring problem. So, far, no help reducing oil consumption. Car just runs better. I like they way the car performs with MMO. I am not concerned about damage. I have not seen one bit of evidence anywhere on the internet that it causes harm. For me, experience from people who have successfully used the product has more merit, IMHO.
 
Originally Posted By: gathermewool
Originally Posted By: demarpaint
Originally Posted By: gathermewool
You did this on a vehicle that had been maintaining? You saw the sludge during the VCG replacement, then nothing after running MMO at your normal OCI?

I'm not saying I don't believe that it doesn't work, but most people change too many variables at once to attribute a positive change to one of those things.


I've been at this for over 35 years now. I changed many a VC gasket and dropped oil pans for friends over the years. Here is a memory brought back over the holidays this year. My brother has a fishing boat powered by a 70's Chevy 250 I-6. He had some varnish and junk up in the valve train we discovered when we changed the VC gasket after he bought the boat. The engine was tired and we were going to re-build the engine, no point in cleaning it up so we threw it back together. Money was tight at the time. We decided to run some MMO for about 50 hours, then at the end of the season, pull the head, and re do the engine. When we finally got around to re-building the engine, we couldn't believe how much cleaner it was!

I have dozens of these stories from decades of use. I like to share, although some people might think I'm planted here from Turtle Wax. LOL



Haha. I hope you don't mind me asking questions. I do it out of curiosity rather than skepticism...ok, well I'm a bit skeptical by nature, but that's besides the point. haha

Did he previously change out the motor and gear oil every season prior to the VCG being replaced or did the motor come with the boat in sad shape? I guess I'm asking whether the previous owner's neglect could possibly have been cleaned with the same results with proper maintenance from that point on.

I'm still learning the affects of MMO on abused, poorly maintained vehicles, and whether it has any benefit over simply properly maintaining the vehicle from that point on, maybe doing a few shorter OCI, if anything. OTOH, I don't agree that MMO maintenance doses are required on vehicles properly maintained from the beginning simply for peace of mind.

FWIW, a rattle I attributed to the valvetrain completely went away after using Techron. The rattle was there EVERY day since the cold came, then, a half of a tank into a techron run and it's been gone for a week now...Heck of a coincidence /Hijack : )


The boat was bought used for repairs, and cheap. We knew what we were getting into. The engine was tired and probably neglected. We were going to throw a 350 4 bolt main engine into it, but decided to save that motor and re-do the 250 I-6.

You asked would properly maintaining the engine have done anything? Yes, but we bought it knowing what had to be done. We know that since that engine is still in service today after we re-built it, and running great due to proper maintaining it. It sees MMO in the gas all the time, now my brother uses Schaeffers #132 and an MMO mix in the oil.

Our big fear now is the water jackets rotting through since it is salt water cooled. If that happens in goes the old 350 4 bolt main engine.

BTW I enjoy the questions, this is how we all learn.


I'm flying west 3000 miles see you guys soon.
 
Originally Posted By: gathermewool
Ya know what else helps clean up sludge? An oil change.
27.gif


Did you happen to cut open the filter you changed out?


I have my filter and would cut it open ,but it is an older toyota filter .I got a dozen o.e.m. 90915 yzza1 at salvation army for a buck apiece. That thing is very thick and i eas afraid to cut it open with the roto tool i have. I did notice that the filter is very heavy even after I drained it for a week upside down. A very good sign that it is filled with sludge. I have been changing my own oil for 35 years and maintain my motors pretty well. I have never had a motor fail or even had to open one up.
 
Originally Posted By: demarpaint
Originally Posted By: gathermewool
Originally Posted By: demarpaint
Originally Posted By: gathermewool
You did this on a vehicle that had been maintaining? You saw the sludge during the VCG replacement, then nothing after running MMO at your normal OCI?

I'm not saying I don't believe that it doesn't work, but most people change too many variables at once to attribute a positive change to one of those things.


I've been at this for over 35 years now. I changed many a VC gasket and dropped oil pans for friends over the years. Here is a memory brought back over the holidays this year. My brother has a fishing boat powered by a 70's Chevy 250 I-6. He had some varnish and junk up in the valve train we discovered when we changed the VC gasket after he bought the boat. The engine was tired and we were going to re-build the engine, no point in cleaning it up so we threw it back together. Money was tight at the time. We decided to run some MMO for about 50 hours, then at the end of the season, pull the head, and re do the engine. When we finally got around to re-building the engine, we couldn't believe how much cleaner it was!

I have dozens of these stories from decades of use. I like to share, although some people might think I'm planted here from Turtle Wax. LOL



Haha. I hope you don't mind me asking questions. I do it out of curiosity rather than skepticism...ok, well I'm a bit skeptical by nature, but that's besides the point. haha

Did he previously change out the motor and gear oil every season prior to the VCG being replaced or did the motor come with the boat in sad shape? I guess I'm asking whether the previous owner's neglect could possibly have been cleaned with the same results with proper maintenance from that point on.

I'm still learning the affects of MMO on abused, poorly maintained vehicles, and whether it has any benefit over simply properly maintaining the vehicle from that point on, maybe doing a few shorter OCI, if anything. OTOH, I don't agree that MMO maintenance doses are required on vehicles properly maintained from the beginning simply for peace of mind.

FWIW, a rattle I attributed to the valvetrain completely went away after using Techron. The rattle was there EVERY day since the cold came, then, a half of a tank into a techron run and it's been gone for a week now...Heck of a coincidence /Hijack : )


The boat was bought used for repairs, and cheap. We knew what we were getting into. The engine was tired and probably neglected. We were going to throw a 350 4 bolt main engine into it, but decided to save that motor and re-do the 250 I-6.

You asked would properly maintaining the engine have done anything? Yes, but we bought it knowing what had to be done. We know that since that engine is still in service today after we re-built it, and running great due to proper maintaining it. It sees MMO in the gas all the time, now my brother uses Schaeffers #132 and an MMO mix in the oil.

Our big fear now is the water jackets rotting through since it is salt water cooled. If that happens in goes the old 350 4 bolt main engine.

BTW I enjoy the questions, this is how we all learn.


I'm flying west 3000 miles see you guys soon.


See, there's my sticking point. You bought a neglected motor with sludging and varnish issues. Can any one really tell if the improvement is due to the MMO vs simply finally replacing the oil with fresh stuff? I'm going to have to say that's impossible to answer. IMO, feeling better doesn't do it for me. With an older car I realize that things change, regardless of whether you change anything at all.

Before I used Techron, there would be days the engine would sound/run great, and seem to have more power. Other days, with the same fuel (no adds), oil (no adds,) etc it would have minor hickups or seem to be down on power. I'm very aware of this when I use any fuel additives, and try to distinguish between normal variables and those caused by the additive. That being said, having a rattling/ticking sound that is audible for MILES away suddenly go away after an additive is used for a half of a tanks...I can't really argue with those kinds of results, but I still remain skeptical, realizing that this could very well just be a coincidence.

Enjoy your trip, btw!
 
I couldn't get any pics(baffle in the way), but I saw deposits removed after using MMO in my Corolla(in the valvetrain) towards the end of 3 OCI's. I was surprised by this because the car wasn't neglected and also had 2 ARX treatments. I do have two pics of the oil drained from only 1700 miles w/ MMO, but most here will say oil color means nothing.
 
I'd love to see some picks of the clean up if you can find 'em! You say it was well maintained. What does that mean?

Demar, is there a way you could rig a hose to flush fresh water through after each run? It's very easy on outboards, but I have no idea if it's easily done on inboards.
 
Originally Posted By: gathermewool
I'd love to see some picks of the clean up if you can find 'em! You say it was well maintained. What does that mean?

Demar, is there a way you could rig a hose to flush fresh water through after each run? It's very easy on outboards, but I have no idea if it's easily done on inboards.


Not sure if you're asking me :)

Well maintained means 3-5K OCI's, never more. Mostly dino, but some syn/syn blend runs. Wish I had pics, but would have been impossible w/out removing the valve cover. I didn't want to do that though, it wasn't leaking or anything.
 
To be fair, if someone changes the oil and large gunk deposits go away, we can't attribute them to the MMO in the oil change.

Because you just did an OIL CHANGE!
 
Originally Posted By: chad8
I have a corolla with 277000 miles on it. I used mmo after having oil burning problems . I was burning a quart every 5-800 miles. I put a pint in the last 1000 miles of my last oci.I have never used mmo in a crankcase before. I now have 1700 highway miles on this change and have burned about 3/4 of a quart. I think I had a few hardened or sludged valve seals which cleaned up nicely.


Was this by chance an 8th gen corolla with the 1FE-ZZ engine? I have this engine and am burning a qt about every 1250 miles. So I am going to try MMO and hope it works.
 
Originally Posted By: OilFanatic
Originally Posted By: chad8
I have a corolla with 277000 miles on it. I used mmo after having oil burning problems . I was burning a quart every 5-800 miles. I put a pint in the last 1000 miles of my last oci.I have never used mmo in a crankcase before. I now have 1700 highway miles on this change and have burned about 3/4 of a quart. I think I had a few hardened or sludged valve seals which cleaned up nicely.


Was this by chance an 8th gen corolla with the 1FE-ZZ engine? I have this engine and am burning a qt about every 1250 miles. So I am going to try MMO and hope it works.


Hope it works out for you. Nothing worked to stop oil burning on my 2000 Corolla, it gradually got worse.
 
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